Cease To Padres per Passan

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is an ERA of 8.07 a “badly broken” pitcher?

Maybe not for one of the worst Sox defenses in recent memory.

Look at Bummer still being in demand with an ERA in that same/similar neighborhood, or Lynn for most of his time with the Dodgers outperforming Sox numbers by far.

Edited December 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Is an ERA of 8.07 a “badly broken” pitcher?

Is a 2.83 ERA any good? Think that might have helped a contender in the playoffs? Obviously, the Orioles didn’t need him in August, they needed him in October (when Flaherty was MIA).

[Balta1701]

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Maybe not for one of the worst Sox defenses in recent history.

Look at Bummer still being in demand with an ERA in that neighborhood, or Lynn for most of his time with the Dodgers.

Aaron Bummer brought back a bunch of guys about to be nontendered for roster spots.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

“My pitching coach can fix this badly broken pitcher” continues to be a vexing argument for paying a high price for a player.

And so is using the “guy who threw the highest rated pitch in Statcast history one year later has suddenly lost the ability to throw that pitch forever despite little change in spin rate” to help support your thesis that he is badly broken.

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is an ERA of 8.07 a “badly broken” pitcher?

Or is it a pitcher who has stopped caring, just like the rest of his team, due to being out of competition for the division and having a loser for a manager?  Yes, it’s not an admirable trait to give up, but the entire Sox team did the same.  You can’t guarantee that if Cease was on a contending team, he would have simply pitched the exact same way as he did with the Sox.

Edited December 28, 2023 by WhiteSox2023

[T R U]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Is an ERA of 8.07 a “badly broken” pitcher?

Cease is fine, he was on a team with a horseshit defense and a season that was over after the first month. 
 

Wait until next season now that we’re loaded on defense with studs Moldonado, Lopez, DeJong and Stassi. ERA will be much better, but record not so much.  

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly what I was going to say.  Also, the rejuvenated excitement for pitching for a contender, not a 100 loss team.

And not any 100 loss team…one whose clubhouse was a complete disaster thanks its spineless manager.

[Balta1701]

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

Or is it a pitcher who has stopped caring, just like the rest of his team, due to being out of competition for the division and having a loser for a manager?  Yes, it’s not an admirable trait to give up, but the entire Sox team did the same.  You can’t guarantee that if Cease was on a contending team, he would have simply pitched the exact same was as he did with the Sox.

“He stopped caring” might be an even worse statement about a supposed professional, my word. Just jaw dropping.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, T R U said:

Cease is fine, he was on a team with a horseshit defense and a season that was over after the first month. 
 

Wait until next season now that we’re loaded on defense with studs Moldonado, Lopez, DeJong and Stassi. ERA will be much better, but record not so much.  

Then the right decision is likely to be to hold him until The trade deadline if you’re expecting a substantially better performance from him. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Aaron Bummer brought back a bunch of guys about to be nontendered for roster spots.

That's the centerpiece trade for "average/mediocre" Getz's GM tenure so far.

It improved the White Sox in theory...but none of those players were likely to make the Braves and they were going to cost $10-12 million or whatever their price tag.

Mostly, change of scenery Matty Thornton/Damaso Marte type move for ATL.   And dumping the bottom of the roster off on someone else who has better use for them, probably.

Edited December 28, 2023 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

“He stopped caring” might be an even worse statement about a supposed professional, my word. Just jaw dropping.

It’s wild that a board of Orioles fan can understand how pitching last season in a s%*# environment could impact Dylan’s result whereas as a Sox fan who should have witnessed this s%*#-show firsthand finds it incomprehensible.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Chicago White Sox

[WhiteSox2023]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

“He stopped caring” might be an even worse statement about a supposed professional, my word. Just jaw dropping.

Pick your jaw up off the floor then and stop acting clueless.  It happens in sports of all levels and even in job professions.  Not sure how a Sox fan who has likely lived through Ozzie quitting on the team, Sox players quitting on LaRussa, and Sox players quitting on Grifol is acting ignorant to this.  Who are you kidding?

Edited December 28, 2023 by WhiteSox2023

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Then the right decision is likely to be to hold him until The trade deadline if you’re expecting a substantially better performance from him. 

I wouldn’t be opposed to it. The division is truly god awful. Twins have done nothing to improve. For as bad as the Sox roster looks on paper, it’s possible they catch lightning in a bottle and win 85 games. Might be enough to win a horrible division.

[T R U]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Then the right decision is likely to be to hold him until The trade deadline if you’re expecting a substantially better performance from him. 

That’s very much a possibility, and considering his 3.72 FIP I would assume expecting a substantially better performance is fair

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

“He stopped caring” might be an even worse statement about a supposed professional, my word. Just jaw dropping.

Then why hold onto Robert...because he similarly fell off quite a bit down the stretch, if not injuries/increasingly lackadaisical play that cost him the GG???

I would tend to err on the side of giving guys like Cease or Robert the benefit of the doubt...it was a horrific environment for vets and rookies alike last year, partially due to Grifol and partially due to the power vacuum in the organization that was developing.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Pick your jaw up off the floor then and stop acting clueless.  It happens in sports of all levels and even in job professions.  Not sure how a Sox fan who has likely lived through Ozzie quitting on the team, Sox players quitting on LaRussa, and Sox players quitting on Grifol is acting ignorant to this.  Who are you kidding?

What kind of return are those guys bringing? What kind of trade return did Tim Anderson bring?

[SoCalChiSox]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is an ERA of 8.07 a “badly broken” pitcher?

Why are we talking about ERA for one cherry picked month and why are we talking about ERA at all?

What is this, 1955? 

If the argument is because he had a bad August this proves that "by the end of the season the dude was totally broken" how do you explain the xFIP of 3.11 in Sept/Oct?

If all it takes to make an argument is picking one month, then i could easily argue the much better xFIP and wOBA subsequently in Sept/Oct proves that Cease "found himself" and is a Cy Young caliber guy again.

I'm not claiming he "found himself" because of one month. I'm saying in the last three years he had two 4.5 WAR seasons and even in a down year he still had 3.7 WAR which is super valuable especially when he's earning pennies.

 

 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s wild that a board of Orioles fan can understand how pitching last season in a s%*# environment could impact Dylan’s result whereas as a Sox fan who should have witnessed this s%*#-show firsthand finds it incomprehensible.

Y’all spent last offseason telling me how much the environment was going to improve after 2022 and how that would lift all boats and you don’t see how someone would think this ridiculous?

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

“He stopped caring” might be an even worse statement about a supposed professional, my word. Just jaw dropping.

In 162 game season when you’re out of it in April, I feel like most players in that situation’s care kind of fades to some extent.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Pick your jaw up off the floor then and stop acting clueless.  It happens in sports of all levels and even in job professions.  Not sure how a Sox fan who has likely lived through Ozzie quitting on the team, Sox players quitting on LaRussa, and Sox players quitting on Grifol is acting ignorant to this.  Who are you kidding?

I believe Balta is some sort of rock scientist, so not sure he’s been in a results based working environment when results have gone soft.  Regardless of the profession, it’s incredibly common for people to lose motivation / focus when it does happen.

[fathom]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Y’all spent last offseason telling me how much the environment was going to improve after 2022 and how that would lift all boats and you don’t see how someone would think this ridiculous?

Some of us said it wouldn’t improve until quite a few of the guys are gone (cough Timmy and Grandal).

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What kind of return are those guys bringing? What kind of trade return did Tim Anderson bring?

What kind of return did Giolito bring?

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Y’all spent last offseason telling me how much the environment was going to improve after 2022 and how that would lift all boats and you don’t see how someone would think this ridiculous?

I did what now?

[Y2Jimmy0]

40 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

All info we have heard is that they wanted Holliday at the deadline.

I saw that reported as well. Absolutely absurd ask if it was ever indeed mentioned. I doubt that was ever realistic. 

38 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Cease’s value could absolutely be higher in 6 months, if he is back to something like his 2022 form. This is only true if he has a rotten first half again.

It could be. I don’t think it’s worth the risk though. 

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What kind of return are those guys bringing? What kind of trade return did Tim Anderson bring?

It’s a new season and a team acquiring Cease knows that their team isn’t as big of a $h17show environment as the Sox were/are.  These teams probably also realize that if Tim Anderson didn’t epically suck on both sides of the ball cuz he was too busy cheating on his wife, Cease’s numbers could’ve been better.

Edited December 28, 2023 by WhiteSox2023