Greek-konerko Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: See page 116 for the following post and subsequent replies: Should be an interesting next few days, it's getting hot & crow is in the oven Page 116 where? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Greek-konerko said: Page 116 where? I guess here https://forum.orioleshangout.com/topic/50182-cease-vs-everyone-else/page/116/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/orioles I know it’s next year, but Baltimore has a nice problem to have with so many players that need to be added to the 40 man roster. I’m sure Elias is trying to sell some of those players to Getz, which is probably part of the problem. Ortiz already at 26 years old and has no where to play I’m sure is being pushed by Elias. I take a hard pass on Ortiz being the send piece in the trade just based on his age. I’m big fan of Norby as the 2nd piece in the deal. Edited December 28, 2023 by PolishPrince34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Quin said: James Fox on Twitter. Now runs FutureSox, but has covered the Sox minor league system for a long time for FutureSox and has legitimate sources within the org. Here, I'll throw some deals at you: First one that I proposed early in the thread: Kjerstad, Bradfield, Povich, Juan Nuñez Now, a new one: Cowser, Ortiz, Seth Johnson, Luis Almeyda No and no…because as of now, I don’t think all of that is necessary. Thanks for the knowledge on James. I will check it out and make his name known on our site. I see he has a lot of twitter followers, so that’s good to see. Edited December 28, 2023 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Like I said, a couple guys in the 10-30 range. That’s a huge range and the Os will have guys outside the top 30 that would be in teams top 20. A prospect ranked 12th by the Os would be top 7 in most systems. This is what I’m talking about. You guys are getting wrapped up in these numbers and rankings but if you are dealing with the Os, things just aren’t equal to the other organizations. Like I have been saying, if Cowser and Ortiz are out there, I highly doubt that deal is getting beat. Now, it’s possible Getz wants a starter headlining the deal and takes a different deal because of it but that doesn’t mean it’s a deal where they are acquiring better or more highly rated players. It just means that they are valuing pitching more. At some point, it makes more sense to trade less to get someone else or to trade a little more and get Luzardo or something like that or just try to get one of the younger, more inexperienced pitchers from Seattle or Miami and develop them. Until we see an indication that a lot more needs to be traded, I see no reason to entertain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Luzardo has a pretty extensive history of injuries. I really wouldn’t trust him to stay healthy . Last year was the first time ever pitching over 101 innings in a season. Durability is a huge question with Luzardo. There is a reason why Marlins are listening on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said: Luzardo has a pretty extensive history of injuries. I really wouldn’t trust him to stay healthy . Last year was the first time ever pitching over 101 innings in a season. Durability is a huge question with Luzardo. There is a reason why Marlins are listening on him. I agree..which is why I don’t think he should fetch much more then Cease even though you have the extra year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 I appreciate intelligent voices from other fan bases like@Frobby and @Sports Guy and think they have added an interesting perspective to this discussion. I also think the deal @Y2Jimmy0 proposed is more than fair for Dylan Cease. I think there is a lot of prospect clutching and humping on the Elias side. I remain concerned that if Getz does not deal him now, he may not have a good season or could be injured by the trade deadline. It is nothing more than a fear of the worst case scenario in White Sox fashion occurring. I agree with the Robert assessment. It would take a king’s ransom for another team to get him at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 I see that Sports Guy has been doing a great job representing the O’s fan point of view for the last 20 hours while I was napping. ? I often disagree with him over on Orioles Hangout by I agree with 95% of what he’s said over here. One particular point I want to back him up on is the value of Joey Ortiz. He’s a very good prospect, and the only reason we’d part with him as a second piece in a trade is because we have a ridiculous surplus of young infielders and infield prospects, so we can afford to deal him. He’s the best defensive SS at any level in our system, which is saying something because Gunnar proved to be a very good defensive SS last year. And, he should be a solid hitter, nothing spectacular but far from a glove-only guy. The team that gets him will be very happy they did. At the end of the day, I think the O’s should be willing to give up Cowser or Kjerstad, plus Ortiz or Norby, and let the Sox choose which one from each pairing they prefer. I’m not sure any other team will offer a pairing better than that, and unless someone does, I’d expect the O’s to be pretty reticent to add other pieces. But they could, if pushed to it. If that’s not enough for the White Sox, then I guess they’ll be rolling the dice on Cease having a good first half and bringing more at the deadline. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) I think that’s a fair deal. My guess is that Getz is holding out for a decent but lower ranked third piece than those four guys, likely a pitcher. But I don’t agree that they will hold onto Cease in any case. Getz won’t be taking on the risk of Cease getting hurt before the trade deadline. Edited December 28, 2023 by WhiteSox2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) Question for you guys. I know you have Montgomery as a very good MI prospect and obviously a lot of you seem good with Ortiz coming back as part of the deal. What if instead of Cowser or Kjerstad, the lead player was Westburg. Would that be ok with you or do you really want an OFer more? Say the offer was Westburg and Beavers or Cowser/Kjerstad and Ortiz. And just for discussion purposes, let’s just say that Getz feels these are the best 2 deals on the table. Which one would you prefer he takes? Edited December 28, 2023 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Just now, Sports Guy said: Question for you guys. I know you have Montgomery as a very good MI prospect and obviously a lot of you seem good with Ortiz coming back as part of the deal. What if instead of Cowser or Kjerstad, the lead player was Westburg. Would that be ok with you or do you really want an OFer more? OF’r. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) I think everyone here would take Cowser/Kjerstad and Ortiz/Norby. There will definitely be a 3rd and 4th lesser piece. Personally, I believe that 3rd piece will be within the Orioles 10-20 top prospects. The 4th will be outside the top 30. My current ask would definitely be Cowser, Ortiz and Beavers. They can keep the 4th piece. Edited December 28, 2023 by Squirmin' for Yermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: I think everyone here would take Cowser/Kjerstad and Ortiz/Norby. There will definitely be a 3rd and 4th lesser piece. Personally, I believe that 3rd piece will be within the Orioles 10-20 top prospects. The 4th will be outside the top 30. There won’t definitely be 3 or 4 pieces…if the first 2 pieces are better than anything else out there, there is no need to send more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 hour ago, PolishPrince34 said: https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/orioles I know it’s next year, but Baltimore has a nice problem to have with so many players that need to be added to the 40 man roster. I’m sure Elias is trying to sell some of those players to Getz, which is probably part of the problem. Ortiz already at 26 years old and has no where to play I’m sure is being pushed by Elias. I take a hard pass on Ortiz being the send piece in the trade just based on his age. I’m big fan of Norby as the 2nd piece in the deal. I’d be very happy to trade Norby instead of Ortiz. In my opinion Norby has more upside offensively than Ortiz, but the defensive gap between the two is more significant. Having rooted for a team whose defense has gone from very bad to very good, to very bad to very good over the last 12-13 years, I can tell you that when your team’s defense is bad, you almost don’t realize the impact that good defense has until you have it again. When I’ve watched the O’s play the White Sox the last couple of years, the impact of their bad defense has been palpable to me. That’s why I think Ortiz has more value to you than Norby would. But as I said, you guys can pick between the two so far as I’m concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: There won’t definitely be 3 or 4 pieces…if the first 2 pieces are better than anything else out there, there is no need to send more. We’ll see 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Over the last 12-13 years we've seen our defense go from bad to terrible to awful, to dreadful to horrific to comical. Thank god our new GM understands the importance of defense and will build a team accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 minute ago, SkokieSox said: We’ll see I agree with Sports Guy. The O’s can afford to give up a third or fourth piece, but they won’t unless an offer from some other team forces them to. Kjerstad/Cowser plus Ortiz/Norby is a very solid return for the White Sox. These are major league ready guys with six years of service time each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said: Over the last 12-13 years we've seen our defense go from bad to terrible to awful, to dreadful to horrific to comical. Thank god our new GM understands the importance of defense and will build a team accordingly. Have you heard something? Seems like a strange comment unless you got some info. Focusing on Cowser and Ortiz? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Just now, Frobby said: I agree with Sports Guy. The O’s can afford to give up a third or fourth piece, but they won’t unless an offer from some other team forces them to. Kjerstad/Cowser plus Ortiz/Norby is a very solid return for the White Sox. These are major league ready guys with six years of service time each. problem is, the Orioles won't know what the other teams offers are. And they can't just sit and assume 2 players beats another teams 3/4. Because I'm sure other teams can beat that offer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Question for you guys. I know you have Montgomery as a very good MI prospect and obviously a lot of you seem good with Ortiz coming back as part of the deal. What if instead of Cowser or Kjerstad, the lead player was Westburg. Would that be ok with you or do you really want an OFer more? Say the offer was Westburg and Beavers or Cowser/Kjerstad and Ortiz. And just for discussion purposes, let’s just say that Getz feels these are the best 2 deals on the table. Which one would you prefer he takes? We need a LH OFer badly and actually LH anything so no to Westburg. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Over the last 12-13 years we've seen our defense go from bad to terrible to awful, to dreadful to horrific to comical. Thank god our new GM understands the importance of defense and will build a team accordingly. I agree, but is this Cease related? Or just more of a general thought in the most active thread right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Cocky Orioles fans naming their price. What a time to be alive. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Over the last 12-13 years we've seen our defense go from bad to terrible to awful, to dreadful to horrific to comical. Thank god our new GM understands the importance of defense and will build a team accordingly. Defense or no defense, we still need some legit bats Harold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Have you heard something? Seems like a strange comment unless you got some info. Focusing on Cowser and Ortiz? Unless the comment was meant for the Maldonado thread, where he’s been hyping up his defense lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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