Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) Just now, SkokieSox said: 1983 was a long time ago What does 1983 have to do with the post you quoted? Edited December 30, 2023 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 30, 2023 Author Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No he’s not. They can afford almost any pitcher on the trade market…they could go out and get a younger starter with high upside like Woo or Miller or Edward Cabrera or someone like that. When you have the talent to trade the Os do, the possibilities open up a lot. I won’t be happy if Cease goes for a deal we could have easily beaten but losing out on Cease doesn’t end their 2024 season. You’re naming arms that we have no reason to believe are available. That’s not to say there aren’t other options out there than Cease, but I see your fans at the Hangout clinging to hope of a Framber trade and that isn’t likely happening. You guys seem to think you have the leverage here because you have the best farm system, but we aren’t talking about a Robert trade where only one or two teams have the prospect currency to make a deal happen without including major league players. Many teams can afford Cease. The Sox simply need to come away with one 55 FV or higher prospect to headline the trade. The rest of the pieces can be solved in a variety of ways with trade-odds between quantity and quality. And honestly, as our most astute prospect followers here have called out (@bmags for example), oftentimes the best secondary pieces aren’t the back end top 100 guys that people are aware of but the up & coming prospects with some helium behind them. Again, lots of way to get a deal done and I’m confident there are many better centerpieces than old man Ortiz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: What does 1983 have to do with the post you quoted? It would seem telling Sox fans that we have a horrendous organization is a bit hypocritical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Because their system blows. They are a bunch of lottery tickets at most. You guys have poo pooed the idea of a package like Ortiz, Beavers, Povich and another prospect and act like it’s nothing…but that’s way better than what the Yanks can offer. If NYY and BOS are in the game, an Ortiz, Beavers, Povich and some lotto ticket offer is a TRASH offer. Jimmy has implied Roman Anthony from BOS is now in play and Harold confirmed NYY is heavily involved. In that case, you'd need to make a real legit offer to compete not table scraps bullshit. Elias is free to f*** around and find out tho if he is going to keep playing games, sitting at the fisherman's wharf nibbling on crab cakes and holding his dick in his hand trying to wait us out. f*** around and find out. If you want to trade for Bieber instead that's fine that's on you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, SoCalChiSox said: If NYY and BOS are in the game, an Ortiz, Beavers, Povich and some lotto ticket offer is a TRASH offer. Jimmy has implied Roman Anthony from BOS is now in play and Harold confirmed NYY is heavily involved. In that case, you'd need to make a real legit offer to compete not table scraps bullshit. Elias is free to f*** around and find out tho if he is going to keep playing games, sitting at the fisherman's wharf nibbling on crab cakes and holding his dick in his hand trying to wait us out. f*** around and find out. If you want to trade for Bieber instead that's fine that's on you. Wait, where did James and Harold say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: You’re naming arms that we have no reason to believe are available. That’s not to say there aren’t other options out there than Cease, but I see your fans at the Hangout clinging to hope of a Framber trade and that isn’t likely happening. You guys seem to think you have the leverage here because you have the best farm system, but we aren’t talking about a Robert trade where only one or two teams have the prospect currency to make a deal happen without including major league players. Many teams can afford Cease. The Sox simply need to come away with one 55 FV or higher prospect to headline the trade. The rest of the pieces can be solved in a variety of ways with trade-odds between quantity and quality. And honestly, as our most astute prospect followers here have called out (@bmags for example), oftentimes the best secondary pieces aren’t the back end top 100 guys that people are aware of but the up & coming prospects with some helium behind them. Again, lots of way to get a deal done and I’m confident there are many better centerpieces than old man Ortiz. I have been saying that the whole time..you guys have this obsession with top 100 guys and you are wrong for having it. I have this discussion on my board a lot too. And btw, we know that some of those guys are available as much as we know Cease is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, poppysox said: Opinion defined is a view or judgement formed about something not necessarily based on fact. Of course, it's refutable. In the collective mind of professional scouts, he was among the best players in his draft class. He was fast tracked to the majors and almost immediately had injury problems. In my "opinion"...the jury is still out on his worth. Madrigal has 846 career plate appearances and has put up a career slash line of .280/.328/.354/.682. If he isn’t a Gold Glove defensive SS, that bat isn’t cutting it at 2B or 3B. Outside of his injury issues, we saw with the Sox that he wasn’t as good of a defender at 2B as he was expected to be as a prospect and he didn’t have the speed you would expect from a guy of his size and stature. He is never going to have power (unless he starts cycling roids) so what part of Madrigal’s game is going to drastically change to turn him into a good starting caliber player? He’s a nice backup infielder, but that’s about it. It’s nice that you have a high “opinion” of Madrigal, but why not look into the facts to make your judgment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Quin said: Wait, where did James and Harold say this? Harold mentioned NYY is big time involved in this thread and late last night in the OF thread Jimmy cryptically threw Roman Anthony out there and mentioned Breslow didn't draft him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, SkokieSox said: It would seem telling Sox fans that we have a horrendous organization is a bit hypocritical No it’s not. It’s the truth. Your organization is garbage. The Os had a garbage org for like 25 years. I know what garbage organizations look like. The good news for you guys is that you were at least good recently and recognize that you suck, so maybe you won’t be as moronic as the Os were and wait multiple decades before realizing you need to get with the times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Madrigal has 846 career plate appearances and has put up a career slash line of .280/.328/.354/.682. If he isn’t a Gold Glove defensive SS, that bat isn’t cutting it at 2B or 3B. Outside of his injury issues, we saw with the Sox that he wasn’t as good of a defender at 2B as he was expected to be as a prospect and he didn’t have the speed you would expect from a guy of his size and stature. He is never going to have power (unless he starts cycling roids) so what part of Madrigal’s game is going to drastically change to turn him into a good starting caliber player? He’s a nice backup infielder, but that’s about it. It’s nice that you have a high “opinion” of Madrigal, but why not look into the facts to make your judgment? Why is this a debate? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Valdez, Luzardo, Bieber, Burnes, Peralta, Woo, Miller, Cabrera…maybe other names we don’t know about it. This is what I've thought they would do this entire time. I just don't think they're in position yet to make a big move like Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said: This is what I've thought they would do this entire time. I just don't think they're in position yet to make a big move like Cease. They are in position to do it…it’s just a matter of how much they want to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I have been saying that the whole time..you guys have this obsession with top 100 guys and you are wrong for having it. I have this discussion on my board a lot too. And btw, we know that some of those guys are available as much as we know Cease is available. Huh? Cease is on a s%*# team and some of the guys you listed are in teams trying to contend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: The Yankees being heavily involved is great news. Honestly, if I were an Orioles fan I’d be a sweating a little. I know people think they are guaranteed a playoff spot because they won 101 games last year, but a rejuvenated Yankees could put that at risk. Almost no Orioles fan I know thinks we are guaranteed a playoff spot next year — with or without Cease. The O’s haven’t been to the playoffs in consecutive years since 1996-97. We don’t “sweat” the Yankees only because we can’t control what they do any more than we can control the weather. They buy whatever they’re in the mood to buy, year in and year out, and O’s fans just have to live with that reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No he’s not. They can afford almost any pitcher on the trade market…they could go out and get a younger starter with high upside like Woo or Miller or Edward Cabrera or someone like that. When you have the talent to trade the Os do, the possibilities open up a lot. Sure, but afford and willing to pay for are two different things. Based on everything you’ve told us about Elias, he’s 1) Very concerned and risk averse about not overpaying (which, yeah, tends to not get you very far when trying swing trades) and 2) Concerned with needing your OF prospects to fill holes when Hays/Santander are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Madrigal has 846 career plate appearances and has put up a career slash line of .280/.328/.354/.682. If he isn’t a Gold Glove defensive SS, that bat isn’t cutting it at 2B or 3B. Outside of his injury issues, we saw with the Sox that he wasn’t as good of a defender at 2B as he was expected to be as a prospect and he didn’t have the speed you would expect from a guy of his size and stature. He is never going to have power (unless he starts cycling roids) so what part of Madrigal’s game is going to drastically change to turn him into a good starting caliber player? He’s a nice backup infielder, but that’s about it. It’s nice that you have a high “opinion” of Madrigal, but why not look into the facts to make your judgment? Well stated "opinion." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Bob Sacamano said: Huh? Cease is on a s%*# team and some of the guys you listed are in teams trying to contend. So? Do you follow these things? All of the guys I mentioned have been said to be available or potentially available all offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Harold mentioned NYY is big time involved in this thread and late last night in the OF thread Jimmy cryptically threw Roman Anthony out there and mentioned Breslow didn't draft him. I don’t think he was alluding to anything. I think he was just pointing out that Breslow may not love him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, poppysox said: Well stated "opinion." Opinion is incoherently liking a bad player without ever providing any factual data proving your point that said player is good. But let’s move on and continue to talk about good prospects, not busts like Madrigal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Sports Guy said: So? Do you follow these things? All of the guys I mentioned have been said to be available or potentially available all offseason. Practically anyone is available for the right price. The point is, do any of those names either provide better value or come at a significantly lower cost? If so, have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Snopek said: Sure, but afford and willing to pay for are two different things. Based on everything you’ve told us about Elias, he’s 1) Very concerned and risk averse about not overpaying (which, yeah, tends to not get you very far when trying swing trades) and 2) Concerned with needing your OF prospects to fill holes when Hays/Santander are gone. Well, I’m not as convinced about #2..in just saying I don’t see him trading multiple OF prospects in the same deal. The truth is, no Os fan really knows what Elias is thinking. There are no insiders for the Os. They are extremely tight lipped. We know what Elias has said publicly, which some of it is worth listening to and others is GM talk and we know what he has actually done but the climate for the Os is different now. They are now in the go for it mode. Brandon Hyde said he is now only focused on winning a WS and they need to operate that way. But yea, we just don’t know what the current thought process is. All we know is Elias has an owner that doesn’t want to spend much on the ML product right now, so focusing on guys making lesser money is where we tend to look. There was a report the other day that said Seattle may have to trade a starter and it said even Castillo. The Os wouldn’t be in on Castillo, even though his contract isn’t bad. Just using that as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: I don’t think he was alluding to anything. I think he was just pointing out that Breslow may not love him. Yea that's what I got to. It's no secret Sox liked Anthony in his draft year if you were on the future Sox thread alot. It was mentioned then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Harold mentioned NYY is big time involved in this thread and late last night in the OF thread Jimmy cryptically threw Roman Anthony out there and mentioned Breslow didn't draft him. To be fair, we kinda all were talking about Anthony then Jimbo chimed in. Not sure if he's actually heard his name, or just continued the conversation @Y2Jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, SkokieSox said: Practically anyone is available for the right price. The point is, do any of those names either provide better value or come at a significantly lower cost? If so, have at it. Yea they do. And btw, the cost doesn’t have to be lower. People would gladly trade for a better player and trade more for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No it’s not. It’s the truth. Your organization is garbage. The Os had a garbage org for like 25 years. I know what garbage organizations look like. The good news for you guys is that you were at least good recently and recognize that you suck, so maybe you won’t be as moronic as the Os were and wait multiple decades before realizing you need to get with the times. You aren't telling us anything. We've known our organization was garbage for the past 10 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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