Cease To Padres per Passan

[Snowy Demon]

20 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

They still need an anchor for their young staff. Robbie Ray won’t be back until summer at the earliest. 

Kirby? Gilbert?  They are young but not inexperienced.  Ray will be back this season.  

Everyone knows teams just need to get into playoff.  Once in, rest is luck and random. 

[steveno89]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

From an MLBTR chat today;

Up in the air

Who says no? Westburg, Stowers, Pham, and Wagner for Cease or

Mark P

That's a pretty good offer, even if the White Sox are reportedly/seemingly looking to add pitching.  They'd probably want a higher-tier pitching prospect than Pham.

https://live.jotcast.com/chat/mlbtr-live-chat-17333.html

That simply is not close to getting a deal done

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Jeff Passan said he still thinks Cease will be traded this offseason. I’d have to agree. Too much risk in keeping him into the season.

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Cheap owner who doesn’t want to give away cost controlled pitching?

This brings us to a point I stated in another thread. If all of these owners are considered being cheap, JR, Orioloes, seattle.....

Why are so many people convinced that the next White sox owner will be drastically different?

It's not like JR is the only owner that everyone is considered cheap.

 

don't get me wrong, I would love to see the next owner spend like crazy. But what are the odds that will happen with the trend in baseball?

[EloyJenkins]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

This brings us to a point I stated in another thread. If all of these owners are considered being cheap, JR, Orioloes, seattle.....

Why are so many people convinced that the next White sox owner will be drastically different?

It's not like JR is the only owner that everyone is considered cheap.

 

don't get me wrong, I would love to see the next owner spend like crazy. But what are the odds that will happen with the trend in baseball?

cheap ownership isn't possible when franchises cost over 2 billion to own now. You either have to see real value in money generation via TV deals and partnerships or be a freaking lunatic like Cohen that just want play time. The only concern I would have would be a committee ownership group...they definitely tend to be more conservative to the bottom line. 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, Snowy Demon said:

Kirby? Gilbert?  They are young but not inexperienced.  Ray will be back this season.  

Everyone knows teams just need to get into playoff.  Once in, rest is luck and random. 

Ray is obviously a question mark coming back. How effective will he be this season? Gilbert and Kirby have under 3 and 2 full seasons in the bigs respectively and neither have established themselves to be top of the rotation starters yet. Miller and Woo both made their debuts in 2023. I wouldn't say they are in position to salary dump their ace entering 2024.

[Tnetennba]

55 minutes ago, ptatc said:

This brings us to a point I stated in another thread. If all of these owners are considered being cheap, JR, Orioloes, seattle.....

Why are so many people convinced that the next White sox owner will be drastically different?

It's not like JR is the only owner that everyone is considered cheap.

 

don't get me wrong, I would love to see the next owner spend like crazy. But what are the odds that will happen with the trend in baseball?

Your point is valid, but at this point it's hard to be worse than JR. Not impossible, but I'd take marginally better over more of the same.

[fathom]

Just now, Tnetennba said:

Your point is valid, but at this point it's hard to be worse than JR. Not impossible, but I'd take marginally better over more of the same.

It’s not just the cheapness, it’s the philosophy that he knows what’s best for baseball.

[chitownsportsfan]

58 minutes ago, ptatc said:

This brings us to a point I stated in another thread. If all of these owners are considered being cheap, JR, Orioloes, seattle.....

Why are so many people convinced that the next White sox owner will be drastically different?

It's not like JR is the only owner that everyone is considered cheap.

 

don't get me wrong, I would love to see the next owner spend like crazy. But what are the odds that will happen with the trend in baseball?

There's a lot of billionaires that want the prestige of a winning sports franchise. We just need to find one.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

It's not like JR is the only owner that everyone is considered cheap.

When EinsDorf took over the White Sox, they kind of did "spend like crazy". Fisk, Luzinski and Floyd Bannister were the kind of moves that would have put the 2020-2021 teams over the top. But somehow, they grew cheap and less adventurous. 

[ptatc]

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

There's a lot of billionaires that want the prestige of a winning sports franchise. We just need to find one.

But what makes you think said billionaire is going to just spend like crazy? It isn't the norm for baseball franchises. 

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

When EinsDorf took over the White Sox, they kind of did "spend like crazy". Fisk, Luzinski and Floyd Bannister were the kind of moves that would have put the 2020-2021 teams over the top. But somehow, they grew cheap and less adventurous. 

This is a point that David Samson talks about in his podcast. Owners get massive tax breaks and financial advantages for 5 years after buying a team. So many of them spend early. It's how they spend after that that really shows what there spending habits will be. 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

But what makes you think said billionaire is going to just spend like crazy? It isn't the norm for baseball franchises. 

Not asking for a Steve Cohen, but someone willing to spend on the little things that add up like foreign scouting, domestic scouting, minor league instructional staff, analytics department, and so on. We don't need a 200 million dollar payroll but we can't continue to be penny smart but pound foolish.

[Tnetennba]

13 minutes ago, fathom said:

It’s not just the cheapness, it’s the philosophy that he knows what’s best for baseball.

This part. Can't emphasize the bolded enough.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, EloyJenkins said:

cheap ownership isn't possible when franchises cost over 2 billion to own now. You either have to see real value in money generation via TV deals and partnerships or be a freaking lunatic like Cohen that just want play time. The only concern I would have would be a committee ownership group...they definitely tend to be more conservative to the bottom line. 

We'll see how Cohen spends in a couple of years when the financial breaks and initial attention wanes. 

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not asking for a Steve Cohen, but someone willing to spend on the little things that add up like foreign scouting, domestic scouting, minor league instructional staff, analytics department, and so on. We don't need a 200 million dollar payroll but we can't continue to be penny smart but pound foolish.

Stop burning money on the fringes instead of adding impact FA in their prime.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not asking for a Steve Cohen, but someone willing to spend on the little things that add up like foreign scouting, domestic scouting, minor league instructional staff, analytics department, and so on. We don't need a 200 million dollar payroll but we can't continue to be penny smart but pound foolish.

I don't disagree. I'm just don't think it's guaranteed to be better just because there is a new owner. 

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't disagree. I'm just don't think it's guaranteed to be better just because there is a new owner. 

What in baseball is guaranteed? Or in fandom for that matter. We've had enough of JR. New may not be everything we want, but there's a much greater chance than the zero chance we have now.

Edited January 3 by Tnetennba

[Chicago White Sox]

We really need a legit rumor.  Haven’t heard much about the Giants lately, but they need a TOR, especially if they don’t land Snell

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not asking for a Steve Cohen, but someone willing to spend on the little things that add up like foreign scouting, domestic scouting, minor league instructional staff, analytics department, and so on.

Rewatch the movie Wall Street, then pretend they're saying "Baseball team" instead of "Airlines". 

These guys' hobby is making money, or furthering their chances of making money. We have this fantasy of some dude who has a dream of sticking a winning baseball team in everybody's faces, but what they want to do is stick another $10 billion of wealth in everybody's faces. A million fans cheering at a Championship parade doesn't put $10 billion in somebody's pocket. It doesn't get Saudi Arabia to loan them money. 

It's like if you make a few 100k a year, have 2 houses, are set up for your kids to go to Michigan, or whatnot, and somebody comes to you asking you to buy the corner grocery store in a poor neighborhood and invest in a salad bar so that it's the best corner grocer in that hood. Maybe you know somebody who wants to shove being the best grocer in everyone's faces. 

Nobody takes that seriously until they seek out city investment zones, and see how much free property they can get around that grocery store so they can knock everything down and build 40 prime units with 4 low-cost housing units, and a little community mall that will all max out their investment at at 500% of their initial seed money. 

That's how baseball teams work, now. I don't really believe anybody with money has some primordial need to win a world series. They've done that many times over by installing their own king somewhere in the middle east. Baseball is about developing land, and the development has to be free land, government money and private control. Throw in the promise to rewrite some laws at the state level, and tax breaks, and now the billionaires stop laughing. 

[chitownsportsfan]

26 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Stop burning money on the fringes instead of adding impact FA in their prime.

Ironically ownership and management seems to believe that you can turn 50 cents into a dollar at the MLB level but that you can't turn 25 cents into 50 at the scouting and development level.
 

I'm not saying we have to be the Rays or Dodgers but I'd settle for being like Cleveland, who at least can consistently produce pitching. I just saw that ZIPS thinks the Guardians have 18 pitchers (!) projected for an ERA+ of 100 or better.

Do we have 4?

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Ironically ownership and management seems to believe that you can turn 50 cents into a dollar at the MLB level but that you can't turn 25 cents into 50 at the scouting and development level.

Isn't Bannister supposed to be a step in that direction? 

[Chicago White Sox]

Rosenthal’s latest podcast mentions Cease still likely to be moved and that many teams are still need of a TOR starter including BAL, NYY, BOS, & SFG specifically being mentioned.  He then calls out the Orioles as really needing to add an impactful starter (and to also replace Gibson’s innings) and said that they should be in on Cease but could also potentially look at the Mariners or Marlins’ controllable starters as potential alternatives.  He also spend some time talking about the Red Sox needing a legit TOR arm but might not having the money for Snell or Montgomery.

To me, we really need the Angels to somehow snag Snell.  I think that ensures a large amount of teams in need of impactful pitching but few options remaining in free agency outside of Montgomery, who I anticipate many clubs will not want to sign at anywhere near the dollars he is going to get.

Edited January 3 by Chicago White Sox

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, WestEddy said:

Isn't Bannister supposed to be a step in that direction? 

I don't know. I'm not gonna pretend to be following close enough to know. How any anybody really? Younger fans I guess. At this point in my fandom it's "show me" time. Talk and new hirings are just that. I wasn't trying to be overly snarky when I replied to Harold that I've been hearing about a "new tune" on the South Side for 35 years now. But I keep hearing the same music, ya know?

[Eminor3rd]

33 minutes ago, ptatc said:

But what makes you think said billionaire is going to just spend like crazy? It isn't the norm for baseball franchises. 

I don’t think anyone expects anyone to “spend like crazy” in terms of total outlay. JR has spent enough money, in aggregate. What we’d hope for in an owner is simply one that doesn't flush the money down the toilet by self-imposing idyiosyncratic limitations, like “not believing in investing in the international market,” or “not making long term offers to pitchers,” or “tying up player rewards in earned incentives,” or “valuing the opinions of those outside the organization,” etc.

The best anyone could hope for is an average outcome, but the roll of the dice would unquestionably be valuable.