GreatScott82 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Sounds like Ortiz is one of the better defensive 2B in the minors. Would love a package centered around Mayo and Ortiz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Just want to clarify something, just to be fair. That MlB list isn’t updated. I doubt anyone reputable would have Cowser over Basallo or Mayo and that list currently is. Also, Cowser isn’t that high on most other sites but there are a lot of people that love him. But your overall point is still correct. I mean, this is just a process of elimination right? Look at the lists of the top 40 guys. Go over which ever ones you want/like/respect. How many of those top 40 guys are actually going to be available in a Cease deal? I know MLB list is outdated and there will be some variations once updated. That is also the reason that I only used rankings. Also, so called TOR pitchers are so unpredictable in developments. Alcantara, Bradish, Gallen, and Steele were never considered super prospects if I recall correctly. Position players seem to be far more predictable. Edited January 4 by Snowy Demon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, GreatScott82 said: Sounds like Ortiz is one of the better defensive 2B in the minors. Would love a package centered around Mayo and Ortiz. He is actually a SS. He started to play 2B due to other prospects having higher prestige such as Gunnar Henderson and Jackson Holliday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: I know MLB list is outdated and there will be some variations once updated. That is also the reason that I only used rankings. Also, so called TOR pitchers are so unpredictable in developments. Alcantara, Bradish, Gallen, ans Steele were never considered super prospects if I recall correctly. Position players seem to be far more predictable. No question..which is why I love how Elias has prioritized positional talent. It’s also why the thought that Getz is prioritizing pitching is such a head scratcher to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Something you guys don’t want to see happening: https://x.com/snyyankees/status/1742940009647251845?s=46&t=G3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Dylan Cease may make the Orioles rotation better if his 2023 decline can be reversed. A big if here. Question remains about his rather noticeable velocity drop in his pitches. He did not do much in the post season either although it is just one bad start. If DL Hall develops into a decent starting pitcher, the Orioles will have very good rotation with Bradish (5 years), Rodriguez (6) and Hall (6) under control for a long time. Another big if. The Orioles will still be good and probably be in the playoff. It has been proven over and over again that anything happens in the playoff. Anyone beats anyone in the playoffs. Question is how much is the Orioles willing to pay for slightly increasing playoff chances without sacrificing long term success? Mike Elias built the Orioles that have depths in every single position in the majors and minors. Clearly, he is looking at a long term success and will not deviate from this plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Elias sounds so cool and smart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No question..which is why I love how Elias has prioritized positional talent. It’s also why the thought that Getz is prioritizing pitching is such a head scratcher to me. This is exactly why pitching is a priority. The bust rate is so high, Tema need more to get the chance at quality. Hitting will get you to the playoffs. Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. This is why the Orioles needs this type of trade otherwise it will be an early exit again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Something you guys don’t want to see happening: https://x.com/snyyankees/status/1742940009647251845?s=46&t=G3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Personally don’t mind it, Gerrit Cole, Blake Snell, Rodon, Cortes easily becomes best rotation in AL East, hopefully forces Red Sox hand. And if it doesn’t so be it, hold onto Cease til the deadline when more teams need starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is exactly why pitching is a priority. The bust rate is so high, Tema need more to get the chance at quality. Hitting will get you to the playoffs. Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. This is why the Orioles needs this type of trade otherwise it will be an early exit again. In reality, you need both. But if Orioles’ ownership is so risk adverse and will never sign a decent starting pitcher via the free agent market, how do they plan on developing and maintaining a good pitching staff if all their top prospects are position players? Seems very flawed to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is exactly why pitching is a priority. The bust rate is so high, Tema need more to get the chance at quality. Hitting will get you to the playoffs. Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. This is why the Orioles needs this type of trade otherwise it will be an early exit again. I mean I guess but you guys need to hit with this trade and, if/when you trade Robert. There is nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Rey21 said: Personally don’t mind it, Gerrit Cole, Blake Snell, Rodon, Cortes easily becomes best rotation in AL East, hopefully forces Red Sox hand. And if it doesn’t so be it, hold onto Cease til the deadline when more teams need starters. The Red Sox could end up with Montgomery and really, I don’t think they will be reactionary to this move. Boston is the 5th team in the division and they are far off too. I have said I do think they could be the most desperate team for Cease but at the same time, I don’t think he makes any sense for them. As @Chicago White Sox has said, your best case scenario is Snell is an Angel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: In reality, you need both. But if Orioles’ ownership is so risk adverse and will never sign a decent starting pitcher via the free agent market, how do they plan on developing and maintaining a good pitching staff if all their top prospects are position players? Seems very flawed to me. Agreed. But I also understand the hesitancy to sign pitchers to large long term deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, ptatc said: Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. This is popular and seemingly very logical statement. It is also false statement. Texas and Arizona had 18th and 20th ranked staffs for ERA, respectively. As for WHIP, Texas was 12th and Arizona 19th. Tampa, Milwaukee, Minnesota, LAD and Baltimore/Philadelphia had best WHIP for playoff teams. Milwaukee, Toronto, Tampa, Minnesota and Baltimore had best ERA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: In reality, you need both. But if Orioles’ ownership is so risk adverse and will never sign a decent starting pitcher via the free agent market, how do they plan on developing and maintaining a good pitching staff if all their top prospects are position players? Seems very flawed to me. Well, they traded for Bradish, who wasn’t very highly regarded and have developed him into a very good starter. They have several very intriguing arms in the minors as well. So, further development could come from there. Obviously they developed GRod and Means is a guy who wasn’t a top 30 prospect and he has turned out to be very solid. Even Kremer is a guy that most teams could use. Most teams don’t have 4 starters better than Kremer, much less 5. Hell, some teams don’t have 2 or 3 starters better. This is all to say that they have done a very good job of developing guys and only Rodríguez was a top guy. All of that said, even if McDermott, Povich, Johnson, et al become something, they are likely of little help in 2024 and the team needs to prioritize winning, so it’s time to step it up and get a better pitcher for right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I mean I guess but you guys need to hit with this trade and, if/when you trade Robert. There is nothing else. That is very short term thinking. The Sox need to hit to be good in the near future. The longer view is that the new FO should produce a better overall system. I don't think they will trade Robert. He doesn't have Boras for an agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: All of that said, even if McDermott, Povich, Johnson, et al become something, they are likely of little help in 2024 and the team needs to prioritize winning, so it’s time to step it up and get a better pitcher for right now. Honestly, De Leon may be the best of the pitching prospects that the Orioles have in a year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, ptatc said: That is very short term thinking. The Sox need to hit to be good in the near future. The longer view is that the new FO should produce a better overall system. I don't think they will trade Robert. He doesn't have Boras for an agent. It’s short term thinking that your team needs to do well with the only 2 pieces you have to trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: Hitting will get you to the playoffs. Pitching is what wins in the playoffs. This is why the Orioles needs this type of trade otherwise it will be an early exit again. There's really nothing to back this up, though, so it's one of those philosophies that you can spin however you want. Minnesota and Tampa's good pitching didn't get them very far in the playoffs. You build the best roster you can with the resources you have available and hope for a hot stretch in the playoffs. I think it'd be stupid for the O's not to upgrade their rotation, but I also wouldn't assume an early exit if they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, Snowy Demon said: Honestly, De Leon may be the best of the pitching prospects that the Orioles have in a year or two. To me, he’s our 4th or 5th best prospect in terms of pure ceiling and he is our best pitching prospect. I wouldn’t move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 If the Sox do end up making a deal with Baltimore, I hope they get back Enrique Bradfield Jr as a second piece and I hope they get Baltimore's comp pick in the first round of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Something you guys don’t want to see happening: https://x.com/snyyankees/status/1742940009647251845?s=46&t=G3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Boras begging for a bigger market for Snell doesn’t really bother us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Boras begging for a bigger market for Snell doesn’t really bother us. But if he signs there, it could be an issue for the Cease market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Snowy Demon said: This is popular and seemingly very logical statement. It is also false statement. Texas and Arizona had 18th and 20th ranked staffs for ERA, respectively. As for WHIP, Texas was 12th and Arizona 19th. Tampa, Milwaukee, Minnesota, LAD and Baltimore/Philadelphia had best WHIP for playoff teams. Milwaukee, Toronto, Tampa, Minnesota and Baltimore had best ERA. This data is for the regular season. What is the data during the playoffs? As I said hitting gets teams there, the better pitching wins in the postseason. Although with the new rules changing both hitting and pitching approaches, it may change. There isn't enough data to show it yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: It’s short term thinking that your team needs to do well with the only 2 pieces you have to trade? Yes. That is only this offseason. Building a team is more than just one trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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