Cease To Padres per Passan

[ptatc]

22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Sports radio makes a living discussing these Sox topics.  I’m not sure why you would expect the discussion on a Sox message board to be much different.  Not everyone is super positive like you considering the past 20 years of Sox history.  If you can’t be honest about the negatives, then you are basically just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring things.

Sports radio makes a living talking to the lowest denominator and creating controversy to get ratings.

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

If you can’t be honest about the negatives, then you are basically just sticking your head in the sand and ignoring things.

Who isn't being honest? Seriously, that's pretty rude to accuse people who won't mope like a bunch of children of "sticking their head in the sand". Yes, because I won't join the crowd and repeat the same 6 stupid, worn out, false jokes about Chris Getz, I am a sheep. LOL. 

I wouldn't call being interested in how a new approach is going to turn out being "super-positive". It gets tiresome when trying to be part of a discussion gets you accused of being insane and high. 

Nobody is predicting a world series win. The most "crazy" "out-there" thing I've said is that if a bunch of positive things happen, they could get within a half dozen wins of .500. You seem to get your fee-fees hurt if every single person on Earth isn't congratulating you on saying the same negative thing that everybody else is. 

I can't speak for poppy, but I don't expect a message board to not have the same whiney negative stuff that obvious losers who call into sports radio to complain about something that the last 17 callers said the exact same thing about a quarterback, using the exact same words provide. But I would expect to be able to say something on the positive end of a the spectrum of realistic outcomes to not be met with complete derision. Yes, I was goofing somewhat on the Chris Getz string out of boredom. 

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Bro....there's very little in the way of positive things going on with the team right now. 

The team just fired a bunch of people that everybody has been screaming to be fired. They brought in a new pitching coordinator who has had success in another organization. They have made hires to the front office from outside the organization, which is what everybody has been screaming for. The GM has laid out a pretty clear plan for this off-season, and his moves sure look like they reflect that plan. 

The moves they're making aren't flashy. You have to squint to see the upside. It sure seems like they hired Bannister, and now they're picking up low-cost, fixer-upper dudes that can eat innings. Outside of Cease, Kopech and maybe Soroka, I don't expect them to be flipping any of these guys.

If you think they're going to go trade for Manny Machado and sign Ohtani, then get angry when they don't, I don't know how to help you.

I don't expect anybody to be all happy, shiny people about the White Sox. The constant bytch-fest isn't much more exciting than Oriole fans making the exact same wrong argument over and over and over. Do what you want, and I'm not demanding that people get more positive, it's just silly when being slightly positive gets one roundly accused of being a liar and a fool. 

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, ptatc said:

You should have learned by now to not show any positivity or optimism here. You you be shot down and ridiculed. 

Just enjoy the entertainment. 

Oh, I know that. I actually do read through everyone's replies, because even the people I'm complaining about have really interesting things to say. It's just that the 11th comment that "Getz wasn't qualified for this position", or having it explained to me that nothing will change until Jerry Reinsdorf dies, and one of the many altruistic billionaires on the planet will buy the team and nurture their relationship as fans, and be nice to everybody, and spend all of their money on baseball players, and only then will the White Sox win every pennant going forward - gets old. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

You give me what you're shooting up with, first. It's almost like "the experts" here have no idea how bad this team was last year. If you replace [minus] 5 bWAR with 0 (zero) bWAR, that's an improvement. I guess it's fun to keep repeating that this team will lose 140 games next year. They won't. 

Instead of just posting laughing emojis and calling us stupid or high, please tell us how a zero WAR player who can field his position will make the team worse than a [minus] 2 WAR player who thought he was playing soccer when a ground ball came his way. 

I love to be positive when the situation warrants it but a SP rotation and BP of cast offs ,  a bunch or guys who can't hit a lick doesnt inspire a lot of confidence. 90, 100 ,110 ,we're just splitting hairs about the variances of losses. What level of bad we reach this year's is inconsequential when the purge of the roster will continue next year. When Robert get traded I don't know but it will happen.  Maybe when it does the Sox will have some players develop to give the Sox some actual talent and a better record. If JR is still around maybe he spends money. What we do know is that it's never enough and that big changes in scouting and player development has to happen to compete in this day and age.

I have a really good idea about how bad the team was last year I just have trouble seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for a few years.

Edited January 12 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

16 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The team just fired a bunch of people that everybody has been screaming to be fired. They brought in a new pitching coordinator who has had success in another organization. They have made hires to the front office from outside the organization, which is what everybody has been screaming for. The GM has laid out a pretty clear plan for this off-season, and his moves sure look like they reflect that plan. 

The moves they're making aren't flashy. You have to squint to see the upside. It sure seems like they hired Bannister, and now they're picking up low-cost, fixer-upper dudes that can eat innings. Outside of Cease, Kopech and maybe Soroka, I don't expect them to be flipping any of these guys.

If you think they're going to go trade for Manny Machado and sign Ohtani, then get angry when they don't, I don't know how to help you.

I don't expect anybody to be all happy, shiny people about the White Sox. The constant bytch-fest isn't much more exciting than Oriole fans making the exact same wrong argument over and over and over. Do what you want, and I'm not demanding that people get more positive, it's just silly when being slightly positive gets one roundly accused of being a liar and a fool. 

First of all, “made hires from outside the organization” is an interesting way to gloss over the fact that they brought in the entire 2018 KC Royals staff. And team. And kept the same flop of a manager. So if no derision is allowed about that, then we are gonna have a problem. 

But more than that, you complain about not being met with complete derision for being positive, but the best versions of this we get were “oh Graveman sucked last year” (he didn’t) and “thank God Grandal is gone we have to be better now (our new catcher was worse).

It sure sounds like you’re insisting that you need to be able to be positive without anyone questioning it and without having to make any sort of intelligent justification. We all just need to cheer louder!

Frankly, the page was largely like that a year ago, those who said they were a shitty team were the ones shouted down. But, we also brought better takes than this weak stuff. So this can definitely change. If you’re not willing to justify your position, then don’t make one.

[caulfield12]

The key prism to view what's going on right now is how many of these players acquired are future above average big league starters (rosters as of today) and how many can be flipped for someone who will actually move the meter forward...in a positive direction?

That's the main source of frustration.

It's not even dumping Cease and Robert.

It's that "hitting the ground running" has actually led to tearing the entire team down to the studs in a way that looks like a 3-4-5 year rebuild in the worst division in baseball.. having to hit the Cease and Robert trades exactly right or already behind the 8 ball.

When they are once again willing to give 3-4-5 year deals...then we will know it's time to actually start paying attention to what's going on.

And that's at least two years away.

There (likely) won't be any jump starts to take things seriously like the Cubs pulled off with Jon Lester to notify fans know the rebuild was ready to genuinely kick off, that fans could start dream a little...

And that requires a Top Ten farm system...not a Top Twenty one.

And this Cease trade should put Sox into the 12-15 if executed well by Getz.  The another year to move Robert for the next boatload of legit prospects.

 

Edited January 12 by caulfield12

[SoCalChiSox]

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

First of all, “made hires from outside the organization” is an interesting way to gloss over the fact that they brought in the entire 2018 KC Royals staff. And team. And kept the same flop of a manager. So if no derision is allowed about that, then we are gonna have a problem. 

But more than that, you complain about not being met with complete derision for being positive, but the best versions of this we get were “oh Graveman sucked last year” (he didn’t) and “thank God Grandal is gone we have to be better now (our new catcher was worse).

It sure sounds like you’re insisting that you need to be able to be positive without anyone questioning it and without having to make any sort of intelligent justification. We all just need to cheer louder!

Frankly, the page was largely like that a year ago, those who said they were a shitty team were the ones shouted down. But, we also brought better takes than this weak stuff. So this can definitely change. If you’re not willing to justify your position, then don’t make one.

Unfortunately Balta is 10000% right on these points.

Hopefully I don't have to say that again at the start of ST...

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It sure sounds like you’re insisting that you need to be able to be positive without anyone questioning it and without having to make any sort of intelligent justification. We all just need to cheer louder!

I think that Bannister and Barfield don't have ties to the KC front office. It's become a joke how everybody tries to find if a new player even was on the Padres with an ex-Royal, then we all wail. I've posted a bunch about Getz's networking hires. That's where he was. That's who he knows. Deride away. I'm disappointed they didn't fire Grifol, too. Oh well. I've guessed it's probably a mulligan firing Getz is hanging onto if 2024 goes sideways, quick. 

I don't think I've expressed relief at Grandal leaving beyond saying the catching position delivered negative WAR last year. Grandal was the pin-up fantasy of the stat-heads. I just wanted someone to throw the ball back to the pitcher.

Again, the craziest, out of leftfield things I've said are - they could win 70+ games, just with the changes they've made, and if a bunch of other positive things happen, they could get to the mid-70's in wins. Insane, I know.

Be as negative as you want. Deride away. Nobody's asking anybody to cheer, or be positive. It's when people are actually offended by somebody not even being positive, just being less negative than everybody else that gets me to post my own whiny BS about it.

I have justified my positions. So tell me I'm crazy. Ask me what I'm smoking. I don't care.

 

[Snopek]

This thread has become a metaphor for the Sox in that you never quite know when you've hit the bottom.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think that Bannister and Barfield don't have ties to the KC front office. It's become a joke how everybody tries to find if a new player even was on the Padres with an ex-Royal, then we all wail. I've posted a bunch about Getz's networking hires. That's where he was. That's who he knows. Deride away. I'm disappointed they didn't fire Grifol, too. Oh well. I've guessed it's probably a mulligan firing Getz is hanging onto if 2024 goes sideways, quick. 

I don't think I've expressed relief at Grandal leaving beyond saying the catching position delivered negative WAR last year. Grandal was the pin-up fantasy of the stat-heads. I just wanted someone to throw the ball back to the pitcher.

Again, the craziest, out of leftfield things I've said are - they could win 70+ games, just with the changes they've made, and if a bunch of other positive things happen, they could get to the mid-70's in wins. Insane, I know.

Be as negative as you want. Deride away. Nobody's asking anybody to cheer, or be positive. It's when people are actually offended by somebody not even being positive, just being less negative than everybody else that gets me to post my own whiny BS about it.

I have justified my positions. So tell me I'm crazy. Ask me what I'm smoking. I don't care.

 

Banister played for the Royals from 2007-2010. 

You seem pretty offended by people not being positive, which is exactly the point. If you don’t like that people are responding with reasons why optimism isn’t justified, then come up with better reasons. The only one ranting about how unfair it is that people are responding to you with their opinions is you.

[WestEddy]

22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I love to be positive when the situation warrants it but

I don't disagree with anything you said. I said earlier that I stopped following the Bears because I got so tired of that level of constant disappointment.

I'm not being very positive beyond finding Getz's approach interesting, and thinking they could finish 10 wins better with this team. The light at the end of the tunnel for me is that the whole front office finally seems to be on the same page. Baby steps. 

[WestEddy]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The key prism to view what's going on right now is how many of these players acquired are future above average big league starters (rosters as of today) and how many can be flipped for someone who will actually move the meter forward...in a positive direction?

That's the main source of frustration.

It's not even dumping Cease and Robert.

It's that "hitting the ground running" has actually led to tearing the entire team down to the studs in a way that looks like a 3-4-5 year rebuild in the worst division in baseball.. having to hit the Cease and Robert trades exactly right or already behind the 8 ball.

When they are once again willing to give 3-4-5 year deals...then we will know it's time to actually start paying attention to what's going on.

And that's at least two years away.

There (likely) won't be any jump starts to take things seriously like the Cubs pulled off with Jon Lester to notify fans know the rebuild was ready, that fans could dream a little...

I hear ya on the frustration. I don't know if Mike Shirley is better than Hostetler at running a draft, but they just had a half dozen minor league hitters break out this last season in a way I don't remember seeing. And there's a good handful of pitchers that are actually being talked about for a change. 

I doubt they flip anybody beyond Soroka. I think the slogan for the 2024 season could be "For Christ's sake, Stop the Bleeding!!" I get that people are pissed that JR said he didn't want to rebuild, then Getz started swinging the sledge. Yes, it's a tear-down rebuild. I don't demand everybody feel good about that. 

[caulfield12]

Bannister coming from SF is sort of positive...I guess.  And obviously he already was aware of Katz from his work in California.

That said...the proof will be in the pudding.

And they honestly don't have much to work with outside some of the interesting AA/AAA arms they injected into the system around the deadline last year...along with Schulz and then another group of A ball arms with 3-4 maybe 5 legit prospects in there.

They deserve at least three seasons to demonstrate progress together.

[WestEddy]

30 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It sure sounds like you’re insisting that you need to be able to be positive without anyone questioning it and without having to make any sort of intelligent justification. We all just need to cheer louder!

16 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Unfortunately Balta is 10000% right on these points.

No, I guess the "not being honest" and "give me some of what you're smoking" comments just rubbed me the wrong way. 

And I don't even consider recognizing that 2024 could contain more wins than 2023 to be all that positive. My point is that NOT being negative gets one jumped on. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't disagree with anything you said. I said earlier that I stopped following the Bears because I got so tired of that level of constant disappointment.

I'm not being very positive beyond finding Getz's approach interesting, and thinking they could finish 10 wins better with this team. The light at the end of the tunnel for me is that the whole front office finally seems to be on the same page. Baby steps. 

I personally don't see this team being 10 wins better, especially if/once Cease is moved. Throw in a few key injuries and this team will be lucky to win over 65.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I hear ya on the frustration. I don't know if Mike Shirley is better than Hostetler at running a draft, but they just had a half dozen minor league hitters break out this last season in a way I don't remember seeing. And there's a good handful of pitchers that are actually being talked about for a change. 

I doubt they flip anybody beyond Soroka. I think the slogan for the 2024 season could be "For Christ's sake, Stop the Bleeding!!" I get that people are pissed that JR said he didn't want to rebuild, then Getz started swinging the sledge. Yes, it's a tear-down rebuild. I don't demand everybody feel good about that. 

It's Leasure Eder Santos Kopech Nastrini for me...not all that sold on Mena.  Will also be watching if Carela/NYY and those two Dodgers' arms for the Korean intl signing $$$ go anywhere at all. 

Edited January 12 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You seem pretty offended by people not being positive, which is exactly the point. If you don’t like that people are responding with reasons why optimism isn’t justified, then come up with better reasons. The only one ranting about how unfair it is that people are responding to you with their opinions is you.

I think you're exaggerating here. I haven't complained once that people are responding with reasons why optimism isn't justified. Unless accusing me of lying and being on drugs are actually reasoned arguments. 

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I personally don't see this team being 10 wins better, especially if/once Cease is moved. Throw in a few key injuries and this team will be lucky to win over 65.

Of course. Breaking camp with Cease on the roster and a RF who looks like DeJong/Lopez could be called a 70 win team. But then they'll trade Cease, maybe Robert, allow Montgomery and/or Sosa to replace DeLopez, and fail a bit, trade any of Kopech/Soroka/Flexen that actually has any success, and then they'll tank. Or not. 

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think you're exaggerating here. I haven't complained once that people are responding with reasons why optimism isn't justified. Unless accusing me of lying and being on drugs are actually reasoned arguments. 

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

You give me what you're shooting up with, first. It's almost like "the experts" here have no idea how bad this team was last year. If you replace [minus] 5 bWAR with 0 (zero) bWAR, that's an improvement. I guess it's fun to keep repeating that this team will lose 140 games next year. They won't. 

Instead of just posting laughing emojis and calling us stupid or high, please tell us how a zero WAR player who can field his position will make the team worse than a [minus] 2 WAR player who thought he was playing soccer when a ground ball came his way. 

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Again, please explain the joke to me. 72 wins is more than 61. Go nuts and throw another 5 wins through regression or not letting a Lance Lynn or Michael Kopech start 20 games to realize they suck, and now you're in the mid-70s. 

It's like the glum crowd is really a bunch of drama queens wanting to pretend they're victims because their team won't win this year. Everybody here wants the Sox to win 120 games and the World Series every year. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but they don't. So some of us choose to not just whine for 3 months about it. 

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

You're right. The White Sox will lose 140 games for the next 10 years, nobody from their farm system will ever become major leaguers, and it will only get worse from there. 

Boy is it great being a baseball fan. More negative pablum, please. 

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Only if you teach us the process of opening your head and soaking your brain in horse tranquilizer. That seems to work quite well for you. 

These were all posts before you decided to start complaining about how unfair the site was being to you by having too many negative people. I will grant you that "what are you smoking" was posted before these, but that poster didn't come in and say how unfair you were being to them with all these lines. 

I'm part of the negative crowd. I responded to you with points about the catcher, about the other positive players they lost, the possibility of guys getting hurt or traded. Am I a drama queen spending 3 months whining?

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

These were all posts before you decided to start complaining about how unfair the site was being to you by having too many negative people. I will grant you that "what are you smoking" was posted before these, but that poster didn't come in and say how unfair you were being to them with all these lines. 

I'm part of the negative crowd. I responded to you with points about the catcher, about the other positive players they lost, the possibility of guys getting hurt or traded. Am I a drama queen spending 3 months whining?

I didn't use the word "unfair" at all. Yes, after the "what are you smoking" comment, I guess I ratcheted up a bit, and just gave it back. 

I'll calm down. 

[Greg_Walker]

I'm with WestEddy; I at least see positive signs to watch/root for.  If they keep Cease and sign a respectable RF then I'm not laying any cash down on it but who knows in a bad division.  Eloy/Yoan know they are playing for their next payday so feel good that we will see their most motivated performances in some time.  Otherwise have hope that Bannister can produce some useful pitching assets for the deadline out of all the projects he's inherited and then watch some of the young kids come up at the end of the year.  

[Texsox]

----------------+-------+---+-------------+----------+----------

I'll agree there are some positive in the last two years. I'll even agree for our long term mental health we should probably acknowledge them. But it's impossible to ignore what a huge disappointment the past two seasons have been. Whether by team choice (possibly) or career preservation (more likely in my mind) rising stars in good organizations aren't filling these open positions.

Yes, we're getting what we asked in people leaving but we also wanted above average replacements. We're asked as a fan base to believe these new folks are capable of delivering a winning product. Like most everyone here I'm skeptical they have the skills to do that while also really hoping to be proven wrong. Words just aren't enough anymore to get me excited and positive, the team has to show me. That won't happen for months. 

 

 

[poppysox]

18 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I didn't use the word "unfair" at all. Yes, after the "what are you smoking" comment, I guess I ratcheted up a bit, and just gave it back. 

I'll calm down. 

In case you haven't noticed...Balta likes to argue.  These lengthy verbal assaults filled with data and Balta analysis are meant to overpower you into submission.  When stating an opinion on Sox Talk...I try to tell myself...you don't need to have the last word to be right.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Grandal was the pin-up fantasy of the stat-heads. 

This was my favorite sentence in that whole conversation.