Cease To Padres per Passan

[poppysox]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

----------------+-------+---+-------------+----------+----------

I'll agree there are some positive in the last two years. I'll even agree for our long term mental health we should probably acknowledge them. But it's impossible to ignore what a huge disappointment the past two seasons have been. Whether by team choice (possibly) or career preservation (more likely in my mind) rising stars in good organizations aren't filling these open positions.

Yes, we're getting what we asked in people leaving but we also wanted above average replacements. We're asked as a fan base to believe these new folks are capable of delivering a winning product. Like most everyone here I'm skeptical they have the skills to do that while also really hoping to be proven wrong. Words just aren't enough anymore to get me excited and positive, the team has to show me. That won't happen for months. 

 

 

Getz didn't create any of this.  If anyone on this site was given the GM job he would ask to be judged on his performance.  I try to give Getz the patience & respect I would want for myself.  

[WhiteSox2023]

24 minutes ago, poppysox said:

In case you haven't noticed...Balta likes to argue.  These lengthy verbal assaults filled with data and Balta analysis are meant to overpower you into submission.  When stating an opinion on Sox Talk...I try to tell myself...you don't need to have the last word to be right.

Why do you do this strange side-talking to other posters that you know agree with you, rather than engaging directly with the poster you are talking about (@Balta1701)?

I have not seen @Balta1701 make any verbal assaults and god forbid he actually uses stats and analysis to justify his points of view rather than simply saying it’s his own opinion that everything the Sox do is great so no one can disagree with him.

Edited January 13 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

When stating an opinion on Sox Talk...I try to tell myself...you don't need to have the last word to be right.

Well, he's an Admin, and I understand that I can get salty. He's got to keep the site mostly free of flame wars, so that's fine. 

 

[Sports Guy]

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/four-mlb-prospects-who-could-use-change-of-scenery-including-yankees-outfielder-with-high-ceiling/

[WhiteSox2023]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/four-mlb-prospects-who-could-use-change-of-scenery-including-yankees-outfielder-with-high-ceiling/

Thanks for sharing.  The first half of the Ortiz section could’ve been written by Sox fans here with the second half written by Orioles fans.  ?

If these guys aren’t traded this offseason, they could be used as trade bait at the deadline.  But what’s the rush with Edwin Arroyo?  Sure, he’s blocked but he’s only 20 years old.  Not really comparable to the other guys that are already around 25, since the article is celebrating the trade of an older blocked prospect in Michael Busch to the Cubs.  Actually, Everson Pereira is also only 22, but he is definitely blocked and probably will be blocked going forward with the Yankees OF prospects.

Edited January 13 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

56 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Getz didn't create any of this.  If anyone on this site was given the GM job he would ask to be judged on his performance.  I try to give Getz the patience & respect I would want for myself.  

You are skipping over a huge part of the circumstances that Getz got hired within, that upset many Sox fans.  The fact that Getz was in a key role before he was promoted to GM and may have contributed to the decline of the Sox, just like Hahn and Kenny.  And also that Reinsdorf basically gifted Getz the promotion to GM without interviewing any other candidates, not even one.  Reinsdorf even admitted in his press conference that he didn’t interview Getz for the role!

So I guess fans should be more upset at Reinsdorf than Getz but the way in which Getz got the GM promotion was quite an embarrassment and I’m not surprised fans are assessing each and every one of Getz’s moves with such a keen and critical eye.

But it is ironic that you said, “if anyone on this site was given the GM job” since it was essentially “given” to Getz.

Edited January 13 by WhiteSox2023

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Getz didn't create any of this.  If anyone on this site was given the GM job he would ask to be judged on his performance.  I try to give Getz the patience & respect I would want for myself.  

I fully agree. The difference is I'm skeptical right now. We both want Getz to surround himself with good people who will help him. I'm thinking he was that guy that was supposed to help.

Here's the other paradox. If we accept he isn't responsible because he didn't do anything. Then we hired a guy who didn't do anything in his previous position. Hardly inspirational. Or, he did do something and that frankly wasn't very good. 

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I fully agree. The difference is I'm skeptical right now. We both want Getz to surround himself with good people who will help him. I thinking he was that guy.

Here the other paradox. He isn't responsible because he didn't do anything. Then we hired a guy who didn't do anything in his previous position. Hardly inspirational. Or, he did do something and that frankly wasn't very good. 

And already agreed to keep an incompetent manager in place as a condition.

Or worse yet...believed it was 90/95% the players and not flaws in incorporating or messaging the so called Royals' way was the actual problem within the organization.

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Then we hired a guy who didn't do anything in his previous position. Hardly inspirational. Or, he did do something and that frankly wasn't very good. 

Getz most probably didn't set the agenda. He probably conducted negotiations under Hahn's direction, brought suggestions on how to better run development, and they were either accepted or rejected. It sure seems like the Hahn/KW setup had become pretty dysfunctional. 

[caulfield12]

De Boer was hired by Bama because he won at every single level.

Grifol and Getz haven't even been winners since university.  Hahn didn't win a thing but a spot on the Harvard law review due to connections and nepotism.

And De Boer was also 5-0 against his top rivals...but Lanning in particular at Oregon.

Other than Smart...no better choices in the country.

Otoh, Getz and Grifol would struggle mightily to get similar jobs at any of the other 29 big league teams.

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And already agreed to keep an incompetent manager in place as a condition.

There are 30 GM jobs in baseball, and probably 1 that Getz could reasonably think he could get. If the boss tells you he doesn't want to pay 3 managers, it's not a character flaw to agree that you can work around that. 

There are so many other fundamental problems with the organization that he could punt on the manager position for half a season. 

[Texsox]

Just now, WestEddy said:

Getz most probably didn't set the agenda. He probably conducted negotiations under Hahn's direction, brought suggestions on how to better run development, and they were either accepted or rejected. It sure seems like the Hahn/KW setup had become pretty dysfunctional. 

We won't know. 

But how inspirational is it that we hired a guy who was working in a pretty dysfunctional organization? It certainly would be easier to be positive if we hired someone who was from a functional organization. 

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

But how inspirational is it that we hired a guy who was working in a pretty dysfunctional organization?

I pose the same question nobody answered last week. If you worked for a shitty boss at a bad company, do you believe you should never be employed again in your life because you have been programmed to fail?

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

I pose the same question nobody answered last week. If you worked for a shitty boss at a bad company, do you believe you should never be employed again in your life because you have been programmed to fail?

Two bad companies.  

Edited January 13 by caulfield12

[poppysox]

55 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Why do you do this strange side-talking to other posters that you know agree with you, rather than engaging directly with the poster you are talking about (@Balta1701)?

I have not seen @Balta1701 make any verbal assaults and god forbid he actually uses stats and analysis to justify his points of view rather than simply saying it’s his own opinion that everything the Sox do is great so no one can disagree with him.

Thats exactly what you negative nellies do.  You take over every topic to agree on how F**Ked Up the WS are in all things.  The strange side talking as you call it is to support someone I agree with before the pack of wolves move in for the kill.

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Thats exactly what you negative nellies do.  You take over every topic to agree on how F**Ked Up the WS are in all things.  The strange side talking as you call it is to support someone I agree with before the pack of wolves move in for the kill.

History and facts actually support your so-called Negative Nellies’ side of things.  Only hope and opinion supports your Positive Pollies’ side.

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Thats exactly what you negative nellies do.  You take over every topic to agree on how F**Ked Up the WS are in all things.  The strange side talking as you call it is to support someone I agree with before the pack of wolves move in for the kill.

It's funny that "being friendly" is this strange, unrecognizable thing. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

So question for the group that people probably won’t like: what type of package is doable with Jordan Westburg as the “headliner” from Baltimore? Heyman mentioned that the Sox wanted him and I think he’s too good to be a secondary piece, personally. I wonder if something like Westburg, Beavers, Wagner and McDermott is enough? McDermott and Beavers could easily be T100 types this year. I’m just not sure. If Getz is asking for Westburg plus one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo though, I just feel like that never gets done. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

So question for the group that people probably won’t like: what type of package is doable with Jordan Westburg as the “headliner” from Baltimore? Heyman mentioned that the Sox wanted him and I think he’s too good to be a secondary piece, personally. I wonder if something like Westburg, Beavers, Wagner and McDermott is enough? McDermott and Beavers could easily be T100 types this year. I’m just not sure. If Getz is asking for Westburg plus one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo though, I just feel like that never gets done. 

If they're "Top 100 types" by the trade deadline, that could leave Baltimore feeling they have more resources to use and make them more willing to make a move. This is a potential additional benefit of holding onto the trade deadline. 

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

So question for the group that people probably won’t like: what type of package is doable with Jordan Westburg as the “headliner” from Baltimore? Heyman mentioned that the Sox wanted him and I think he’s too good to be a secondary piece, personally. I wonder if something like Westburg, Beavers, Wagner and McDermott is enough? McDermott and Beavers could easily be T100 types this year. I’m just not sure. If Getz is asking for Westburg plus one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo though, I just feel like that never gets done. 

You are probably right that’s he’s too good to be a secondary piece but I’m just not interested in Westburg as the headline piece in a Cease trade.

i guess the question is — do you think Westburg could stick at SS and is his bat legit?  I don’t want a righty 2B as the primary return.  The Sox should be able to produce one of those, dammit.

Edited January 13 by WhiteSox2023

[poppysox]

19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

History and facts actually support your so-called Negative Nellies’ side of things.  Only hope and opinion supports your Positive Pollies’ side.

If you think the stuff you spew about Getz is based on fact you are delusional.  I've watched the history of which you speak firsthand...not by reading a stat reference.  

[SoCalChiSox]

12 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

So question for the group that people probably won’t like: what type of package is doable with Jordan Westburg as the “headliner” from Baltimore? Heyman mentioned that the Sox wanted him and I think he’s too good to be a secondary piece, personally. I wonder if something like Westburg, Beavers, Wagner and McDermott is enough? McDermott and Beavers could easily be T100 types this year. I’m just not sure. If Getz is asking for Westburg plus one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo though, I just feel like that never gets done. 

Westburg as headliner is super lame. At least if Getz comes off Cowser it should be Kjerstad, and then an IFer and then a pitcher of their choice (Povich, McDermott).

If we're not getting Kjerstad either, it would need to be a big quantity package.....Westburg, Beavers, Bradfield and at least one of Povich/McDermott and one more.

Edited January 13 by SoCalChiSox

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If you think the stuff you spew about Getz is based on fact you are delusional.  I've watched the history of which you speak firsthand...not by reading a stat reference.  

Which part was I wrong about?  Getz was given the GM job/promotion without even an interview.  Reinsdorf said this in his press conference when he announced the firings of Hahn and Kenny and this GM change.  Reinsdorf said that “he knew Getz” so he didn’t even need to interview him or any other candidate for the job.  These are facts.

Do you agree with this type of hiring for such an important position for your favorite team?

How many other MLB teams would have hired Getz as their GM?

Please provide a direct answer to these questions without another vague post like this one.

Edited January 13 by WhiteSox2023

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

So question for the group that people probably won’t like: what type of package is doable with Jordan Westburg as the “headliner” from Baltimore? Heyman mentioned that the Sox wanted him and I think he’s too good to be a secondary piece, personally. I wonder if something like Westburg, Beavers, Wagner and McDermott is enough? McDermott and Beavers could easily be T100 types this year. I’m just not sure. If Getz is asking for Westburg plus one of Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo though, I just feel like that never gets done. 

Westburg was a guy rated in that 45-70ish range who then went to the majors and performed well. To me, his value is similar to Cowser or Kjerstad. But I would rather deal Westburg because of our IF depth

Im personally not one who wants to deal McDermott.

If I’m the Os, my offer is this:

Westburg, Povich, Beavers and a B-/C+ prospect like Wagner.

I most fans probably would hate that but keep in mind that Povich was a top 60 prospect according to Kiley McDaniel entering the season and Beavers has top 100 potential. (I actually expect him to get there at some point in 2024)

So, you have a legit starting second baseman or third baseman, 2 potential top 100 guys and a prospect with role player type potential.  

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You are probably right that’s he’s too good to be a secondary piece but I’m just not interested in Westburg as the headline piece in a Cease trade.

i guess the question is — do you think Westburg could stick at SS and is his bat legit?  I don’t want a righty 2B as the primary return.  The Sox should be able to produce one of those, dammit.

He can’t stay at SS. He can stay at third though.