ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Sports Guy said: Westburg has very similar upside to those guys and plays a more premium position. 2nd base is not as premium of a position as you are acting like it is. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) My god, I hate this thread. I’ve grown to wish every Orioles prospect flops. Edited January 14 by fathom 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: You should apply that same logic to Cease. You keep changing the topic. You asked why he thought westburg did not have the same value. I gave you the reason why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: 2nd base is not as premium of a position as you are acting like it is. He can play Short stop but played 2B in majors because they had others playing SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Jones isn’t on the table apparently. Your hopes and dreams that he is doesn’t make it so. If Getz wants to risk Cease for another several months, have at it. It’s a decision that could pay off but it’s also a huge potential problem but hey, have at it if that’s the risk you want to take. Elias won’t bid against himself because he’s not a moron. Getz would be equally smart to gamble on Cease than to accept a weak offer. Even if it doesn’t pan out, it’s the right move. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, fathom said: My god, I hate this thread. I’ve grown to wish every Orioles prospect flops. Orioles prospects don’t flop. They will all pan out and that is why you can’t trade any of them for Cease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Westburg isn't a SS. So how is second base more of a premium? While worth more than Ortiz...he's clearly not in that first tier of talent that Baltimore would NEVER consider trading. Unless he can hit 25-35 bombs a season and play well above average defense and run well to boot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, caulfield12 said: Westburg isn't a SS. So how is second base more of a premium? While worth more than Ortiz...he's clearly not in that first tier of talent that Baltimore would NEVER consider trading. Unless he can hit 25-35 bombs a season and play well above average defense and run well to boot? He’s not a base stealer at all. He would be a very disappointing headliner. He can be a solid Major Leaguer, but you can also get someone like that via free agency for fairly cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 13 minutes ago, Southwest Sider said: There's a price in place and the price is the price. It's not a matter of bidding against yourself. It's a matter of pay the (what seems like a pretty reasonable) price. It’s so reasonable that no team is willing to pay it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: 2nd base is not as premium of a position as you are acting like it is. Well it is..but so is third and he can handle that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, fathom said: He’s not a base stealer at all. He would be a very disappointing headliner. He can be a solid Major Leaguer, but you can also get someone like that via free agency for fairly cheap. I mean...Sox fans have heard for five years how easy it is to fill second and RF. Obviously not so easy for Hahn. But it shouldn't be next to impossible, either. Not even finding competence in LF is the most be cuddling aspect...that and Sheets/Vaughn/Jimenez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 10 minutes ago, Southwest Sider said: So Elias will have failed the mission because he didn't want to meet Getz's ask. It is what it is. If he pays the price no one should ridicule him for bidding against himself. Getz knows what his price is and doesn't really care what "the market" says because the market is probably trying to get Cease on the cheap. His ask doesn't seem unreasonable either. It's just the O's place a ton of value on their prospects, for good reason. This just isn't a match up that will work right now unless Elias gets serious about making a deal. The Sox need a better deal more than they need to deal Cease. Hopefully the O's are in the middle of a race by the TDL and ready to make a deal then because they still need pitching. Cease isn’t the only pitcher he can acquire that makes us better. So, his failure isn’t that he doesn’t get Cease. It’s that he doesn’t add a guy who could be a difference making playoff talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, ptatc said: You keep changing the topic. You asked why he thought westburg did not have the same value. I gave you the reason why. But your reasoning is poor and wrong, so I just ignored it and moved on to the idea of your last paragraph. That said, Kjerstad should be on the table for Cease. We agree there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: He can play Short stop but played 2B in majors because they had others playing SS. No, he can’t handle SS. He’s a second or third baseman. He can handle either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Well it is..but so is third and he can handle that too. So Henderson is going there or second? You can't honestly tell us that they're going to move Holliday off that spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, caulfield12 said: So Henderson is going there or second? You can't honestly tell us that they're going to move Holliday off that spot. Huh? What does any of this have to do with what positions Westburg can play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 14 minutes ago, Southwest Sider said: It's just the O's place a ton of value on their prospects, for good reason. This just isn't a match up that will work right now unless Elias gets serious about making a deal. Wasn't Andrew Friedman impossible to deal with early in his GM tenure? I seem to remember every single rumor around the Rays took months, and then nothing happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Sports Guy said: But your reasoning is poor and wrong, so I just ignored it and moved on to the idea of your last paragraph. That said, Kjerstad should be on the table for Cease. We agree there. His reasoning isn’t poor. Our previous GM said the team needed to get more left-handed numerous times to the media, but he pretty much failed at acquiring lefty bats at both 2B and RF. Nothing has changed since and the Sox still have holes at these same two positions. Different GMs are going to value a player’s attributes differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: But your reasoning is poor and wrong, so I just ignored it and moved on to the idea of your last paragraph. That said, Kjerstad should be on the table for Cease. We agree there. Because 80-85% of his value is being a 130-140 ops+ corner (likely LF) outfielder...and only the White Sox seem to love generally one or two dimensional players. He's basically a LH hitting Hunter Renfroe. Value but not premium value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Cease isn’t the only pitcher he can acquire that makes us better. So, his failure isn’t that he doesn’t get Cease. It’s that he doesn’t add a guy who could be a difference making playoff talent. True, but based on your logic, his offers suck for those options as well. I mean, it hasn’t happened, so therefore he is lowballing those potential deals. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: It’s so reasonable that no team is willing to pay it. What do you think Elias has offered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Huh? What does any of this have to do with what positions Westburg can play? In your dream scenario where every youngster but Ortiz fits on the roster and rotates at DH...it's Holliday Henderson Westburg in the infield. Which means Mayo would be blocked. And nobody is going to acquire him to stick him at a corner outfield spot...nor will they with Basallo either. Hence, more value to other teams. But not if they hold onto him too long. Edited January 14 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just let this guy talk to himself and stop quoting him. It’s insane that an O’s fan that clearly has nothing better to do has amassed 500 posts in this thread. Make it stop. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: His reasoning isn’t poor. Our previous GM said the team needed to get more left-handed numerous times to the media, but he pretty much failed at acquiring lefty bats at both 2B and RF. Nothing has changed since and the Sox still have holes at these same two positions. Different GMs are going to value a player’s attributes differently. That’s all fine. I understand a preferred type of guy. But having a preference doesn’t make a players value more. The discussion was about the value and upside of these guys. Kjerstad’s value and upside is diminished because of his position and defense. If the question was, you can choose between the 2 players, I completely understand wanting Kjerstad. But that’s not what I was discussing. WAR doesn’t give you more value because you hit left handed. And again, if reports are true, it sounds like Westburg would be someone the WS want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, SkokieSox said: True, but based on your logic, his offers suck for those options as well. I mean, it hasn’t happened, so therefore he is lowballing those potential deals. Well we don’t know if he’s low balling or other teams are asking for too much. and ultimately, something doesn’t have to be done today anyway. Everyone is playing this the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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