Sports Guy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Hey, I actually agree with you. It’s why the Orioles are a bad match. Their top 3 are untouchable apparently and the other top prospects are all relatively old for prospects. Yankees make the most sense and I still think they need a guy like Cease for that rotation. I’m still hoping they miss out on Snell. The old prospect stuff is a little overplayed on here but it is a factor. The question is when do you want to truly contend. If you want to contend in 2 years, getting “older prospects” is a good thing because they can come up now and you can start the road back to respectability. The COVID year screwed a lot of these kids and you are going to see more older prospects because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Who said any of those guys were garbage? I have seen multiple people on here and social media in general referring to things like “a garbage package” like the one James said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: How are you defining many? Most are fine with Cowser, Westburg or Kjerstad as a headliner. What you are leaving out is the idea that a lot of fans are against trading a lot for Cease. So many of you keep treating these words that it means Os fans are saying these guys are untouchable. There are only 3 players that even remotely have that untouchable tag and even that’s not really true..it’s just that the players you would trade them for aren’t available, so they might as well be untouchable. Its just that a lot of fans see the command and control issues, the decrease in stuff, the 97 ERA+ last year and the general good but not great career surround one great season and say, it’s not worth trading for. It’s not an unfair thing to say, just as it’s not unfair for you guys to say, we want a lot for him because of the cost of pitching. Neither side is wrong. Personally, I think the Os fans who don’t want him are crazy but I still get their POV on it. Some of those fans would rather hold onto guys like Ortiz, McDermott, etc. until they’re essentially worthless. Makes sense. At least those advocating for holding Cease until July understand the risk that comes with that but there’s also potential upside/more value by waiting if the offers aren’t there right now while a bunch of free agent SP are still on the market. I’m not sure some Orioles fans understand the risk with holding a bunch of these guys until they become non-prospects and/or utility players like Ryan McKenna. Gotta strike while they still have value. Plus, they’ll have a major 40-man roster crunch soon if they don’t move guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, fathom said: There’s been some speculation that Peraza was the headliner they wanted to use. It’s really surprising to me how they won’t trade Jones, given who they have on the roster and what their window is. They think he’s going to be their next Judge so they won’t trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Seeing Teel at 62 just makes the WSox missing him by one pick even more frustrating 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Seeing Teel at 62 just makes the WSox missing him by one pick even more frustrating I have no doubt the White Sox would have taken him if the Red Sox didn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, fathom said: Seeing Teel at 62 just makes the WSox missing him by one pick even more frustrating and not bothering to call him to see if they could overslot him is unconscionable. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) I think I'm with the hold onto him until the deadline if the low-ball offers are true crowd. Stick to your guns. Also gives me a reason to watch the White Sox at least every 5th day. Roll the dice. Edited January 17 by DirtySox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 38 minutes ago, fathom said: Hampton, Arias, Pereira and one other lottery pick has always made sense to me. A Hampton/Arias centered package would make me pretty happy. Just starting to wonder if it's actually on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Just now, DirtySox said: I think I'm with the hold onto him until the deadline if the low-ball offers are true. Stick to your guns. Also gives me a reason to watch the White Sox at least every 5th day. Roll the dice. For sure. I don't understand why anyone would want to accept a Westburg/Beavers/Povich type proposal, especially after we saw what we got for half a year of Giolito.. Giolito just got the equivalent of a backend top 100 (I think in the 60-70 at time of trade) and a little lesser SP prospect than Povich.. But Gio also had one less year than Cease will at this deadline.. So the risk is what exactly? sure injury risk, but if he's healthy and okay, you still get a Westburg/Beavers/Povich TYPE offer at the deadline. Maybe you lose the Povich piece? If he's showing flashes of 2022, the offers go up substantially. I don't see it as that risky (if that's the offer), outside of potential injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 1 minute ago, DirtySox said: A Hampton/Arias centered package would make me pretty happy. Just starting to wonder if it's actually on the table. What's the dealio with Arias? I see quite a few posters mentioning him and know he's super young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Have there been any rumors about trading Cease back to the Cubs? The Cubs have a pretty good farm system and are in win now mode with the hiring of Counsell. Seems like something could get done there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 5 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said: Have there been any rumors about trading Cease back to the Cubs? The Cubs have a pretty good farm system and are in win now mode with the hiring of Counsell. Seems like something could get done there. Nothing apart from us talking about it. They make loads of sense to me. They've had a weird offseason to me so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: What's the dealio with Arias? I see quite a few posters mentioning him and know he's super young. Just a high upside tooled up lower level prospect. Snips from the BA top 100 posted today, and from the Yankees 2024 top 10. Quote 68. Roderick Arias New York Yankees SS Ht: 6'0" | Wt: 178 | B-T: S-R After a fairly nondescript first pro season, Arias exploded in 2023 and starred on an FCL squad bursting with talent. Scouts raved about Arias’ upside both at the plate and in the field, and gave him a real chance to be a player who sticks at shortstop and hits in the middle of an order. Scouting Grades Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 55 | Field: 60 | Arm: 70 Quote 5. Roderick Arias SS Ht: 6'0" | Wt: 178 | B-T: S-R BA Grade/Risk:60/Extreme. Track Record: Arias was the Yankees’ top signing in the 2022 international period, garnering a $4 million bonus that was the second-highest in the class. The shortstop spent his first pro season in the Dominican Summer League, but his year was limited by injury to just 31 games. He moved stateside to the Florida Complex League in 2023 and showed flashes of potential all-star upside before a broken thumb brought his season to a close after just 27 games. Scouting Report: In an FCL loaded with talent, Arias stood above nearly all the rest as one of the clear-cut top prospects in the league. He came by his accolades thanks to a set of eye-popping tools that could make him a fixture in the middle of the Yankees’ lineup in a few years. He has the potential to be at least an above-average hitter thanks to an outstanding feel for the strike zone and an unwillingness to chase, albeit with a slightly elevated rate of in-zone miss relative to age and level. When Arias connects, he does damage. His exit velocities and barrel rate were better than average, including a 90th percentile EV of 103.5 mph. He hit six home runs before the injury, including one off the batter’s eye against big leaguer Alek Manoah. Arias has a strong shot to stick at shortstop and got better as the year went along. He handles most anything hit his way and has the elite arm strength to erase runners on balls hit deep in the hole. Arias is an extremely athletic player who is a plus runner who glides around the basepaths, especially when he gets underway. The Future: Arias will get his first test of full-season ball in 2024, when he will continue down a development path that could lead him to a starring role in New York. He’s got a long way to go until then, and he must stay healthy as well. Scouting Grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 60 | Run: 55 | Fielding: 60 | Arm: 70. Edited January 17 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said: For those interested, everyone's favorite MIF prospect Joey Ortiz is not in the top 100. I told the Hangout about a month ago that I personally would treat Ortiz as a guy in the 90 to 100 range and was absolutely ridiculed by their posters. It turns I wasn’t that far off as it appears he’s in the 101 to 115 range here and not included in some other lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Just a high upside tooled up lower level prospect. Snips from the BA top 100 posted today, and from the Yankees 2024 top 10. I love that write up. He's got some helium it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 47 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Some of those fans would rather hold onto guys like Ortiz, McDermott, etc. until they’re essentially worthless. Makes sense. At least those advocating for holding Cease until July understand the risk that comes with that but there’s also potential upside/more value by waiting if the offers aren’t there right now while a bunch of free agent SP are still on the market. I’m not sure some Orioles fans understand the risk with holding a bunch of these guys until they become non-prospects and/or utility players like Ryan McKenna. Gotta strike while they still have value. Plus, they’ll have a major 40-man roster crunch soon if they don’t move guys. I don’t understand your first 2 points. You said Os fans want to hold them until they are worthless but if you hold Cease, there’s potential for more. Why is that holding onto the Os players doesn’t mean they become more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 (edited) The other issue with WS fans wanting nothing but a bunch of high upside guys is that you are setting yourself up for complete failure. That may be ok with you but at the end of the day, if this is a team that is struggling to develop players, getting guys further away with low floors may not be the best way to go. Getting older and more developed prospects that are harder to screw up seems to be the best road to getting definite value for your second best trade chip. It’s kind of like drafting high in the draft and you are down to a HS kid vs a college kid. The HS kid undoubtedly has a higher ceiling but they are also harder project and you hate to have that really high pick and completely miss on it, especially when you are in the early stages of your rebuild. Edited January 17 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 37 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: For sure. I don't understand why anyone would want to accept a Westburg/Beavers/Povich type proposal, especially after we saw what we got for half a year of Giolito.. Giolito just got the equivalent of a backend top 100 (I think in the 60-70 at time of trade) and a little lesser SP prospect than Povich.. But Gio also had one less year than Cease will at this deadline.. So the risk is what exactly? sure injury risk, but if he's healthy and okay, you still get a Westburg/Beavers/Povich TYPE offer at the deadline. Maybe you lose the Povich piece? If he's showing flashes of 2022, the offers go up substantially. I don't see it as that risky (if that's the offer), outside of potential injury. For the record, I didn't say Povich. I suggested McDermott. Westburg/Beavers/McDermott and Horvath/Wagner is a pretty good deal imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I don’t understand your first 2 points. You said Os fans want to hold them until they are worthless but if you hold Cease, there’s potential for more. Why is that holding onto the Os players doesn’t mean they become more? Because age is working against them, unlike Cease. Unless you expect all those guys to have significant mlb roles in 2024? Even another huge season in AAA doesn’t help their trade value because they’re old for that level from a prospect perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Because age is working against them, unlike Cease. Unless you expect all those guys to have significant mlb roles in 2024? Even another huge season in AAA doesn’t help their trade value because they’re old for that level from a prospect perspective. Huh? This doesn’t make sense. Cease is much older than them and showing some signs of decline. To say age isn’t working against him but it’s working against guys 3-5 years younger doesn’t make sense. They may be old for a prospect but that doesn’t mean they are going to be worthless. They are going to help the actual ML team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: The other issue with WS fans wanting nothing but a bunch of high upside guys is that you are setting yourself up for complete failure. That may be ok with you but at the end of the day, if this is a team that is struggling to develop players, getting guys further away with low floors may not be the best way to go. Getting older and more developed prospects that are harder to screw up seems to be the best road to getting definite value for your second best trade chip. It’s kind of like drafting high in the draft and you are down to a HS kid vs a college kid. The HS kid undoubtedly has a higher ceiling but they are also harder project and you hate to have that really high pick and completely miss on it, especially when you are in the early stages of your rebuild. Oh God, shut up 3 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 12 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: For the record, I didn't say Povich. I suggested McDermott. Westburg/Beavers/McDermott and Horvath/Wagner is a pretty good deal imo. Oh, I would totally do those 4 guys if that's what you're insinuating. I thought you meant just those first three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Huh? This doesn’t make sense. Cease is much older than them and showing some signs of decline. To say age isn’t working against him but it’s working against guys 3-5 years younger doesn’t make sense. They may be old for a prospect but that doesn’t mean they are going to be worthless. They are going to help the actual ML team. Age absoultely works against a 'prospect' with no (or little) major league experience more than an upper 20s major league caliiber player. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Huh? This doesn’t make sense. Cease is much older than them and showing some signs of decline. To say age isn’t working against him but it’s working against guys 3-5 years younger doesn’t make sense. They may be old for a prospect but that doesn’t mean they are going to be worthless. They are going to help the actual ML team. Wait, you’re arguing MLB performance vs AAA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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