WhiteSox2023 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: To help the frozen Snell and Montgomery markets…move closer to his target prices. I could buy this. Cease is a Boras client as well, but unlike Snell and Montgomery, he’s going to get paid the same over the next two years regardless of what team he’s playing for. Edited January 19 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Did the Sox screw up Moncada and Eloy? The only way I think they impacted them was by giving them contract extensions immediately, which may have made them not so worried about performing? Otherwise, neither guy could ever stay healthy from the very beginning. They have to be two of the most injury-prone players in baseball. This is what brought upon most of their downfall. You have to actually play to put up good numbers. When he actually does play, Moncada is supposedly always playing with some sort of malady (bad back, shin splints, etc.) and Eloy could probably manage to tear his ACL while walking his dog. I do think there are some additional approach issues that the White Sox have screwed up with these guys in their development. With Eloy, the inability to teach him to elevate the ball, their focus on ground balls the other way, has dramatically impacted his output at the plate when he's healthy. This has been an issue for years now and it has gotten worse, I don't know who has taught them this but it's been team wide, the longer they are up the more they have focused on ground balls the other way rather than HR. With Moncada, they seem like they have ruined his eyes somehow. When he came up, he struggled the first year because he was too patient and pitchers were taking advantage of it. In 2019, his walk rate dropped, but his K rate also dropped and his contact rate went up. In 2018, he walked 10% of the time and struck out 33% of the time. In 2023, he walked 5.6% of the time and struck out 30% of the time. He's lost the walks, but the Ks have come back. A tiny loss of power when you are being that aggressive, due to injury or aging, is really damaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 43 minutes ago, Quin said: Trading a prospect as part of a package where you're trading your #1-2 level ace would be so next level stupid that Getz would need to actually be fired on the spot. I don't care if it's an org top 5 prospect like Ramos or someone that has cratered off the cliff like Cespedes. Fortunately, despite me loathing basically every non-Fedde signing, I have confidence in Getz to not do that. Why do you hate the Bummer trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, poppysox said: Why do you hate the Bummer trade? Stress on the word "signing" my man. Bummer and Stassi trades are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 39 minutes ago, 2Deep said: Interesting. Just curious as to why Boras would want to do that? Who knows why Boras does what he does. It likely came from the O's side but you can never rule out Boras trying to muck things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sorry Jimmy but I think trading for guys like Kjerstad and Westburg as the main return is extremely weird and short sighted behavior. Is this team ready to contend this year or next year? If not, then it makes much more sense to acquire younger prospects that are mlb ready in late 2025 and beyond. Why are we wanting guys that turn 25 before this season starts and their service clock has already started given the current state of the Sox? Makes ZERO sense to me. Jerry isn’t going to wait that long to compete. For better or worse, we need to be ready to go by 2026. Not that I’m suggesting it’s likely, but if you could in theory get both Kjerstad & Westberg you’d have a sizable wave of young positional guys who could be ready for war by 2026. And to their credit, a multi-year tanking doesn’t really add much value with the revised draft rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 53 minutes ago, 2Deep said: Interesting. Just curious as to why Boras would want to do that? To have more teams try to sign his free agents He'll do the same for Cease in 2 years when he ia an FA. Its all about driving up the price for his FA clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, oldsox said: Here's a real ugly thought. Sox want Westburg. Orioles say No. Sox offer to throw in Ramos. Orioles say Yes. Westburg struggles with Sox, Ramos stars with Orioles. Why in the world would we do this? Ramos is a 50 FV prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: The Orioles or maybe it was Boras. If nobody will pay the asking price though, he's not worth the asking price 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Sorry Jimmy but I think trading for guys like Kjerstad and Westburg as the main return is extremely weird and short sighted behavior. Is this team ready to contend this year or next year? If not, then it makes much more sense to acquire younger prospects that are mlb ready in late 2025 and beyond. Why are we wanting guys that turn 25 before this season starts and their service clock has already started given the current state of the Sox? Makes ZERO sense to me. Who do you want in return from Baltimore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: If nobody will pay the asking price though, he's not worth the asking price I saw a tweet that said on this date last year there were 3 unsigned top 50 free agents. This year there are still 21 unsigned top 50 free agents. Patience 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said: I saw a tweet that said on this date last year there were 3 unsigned top 50 free agents. This year there are still 21 unsigned top 50 free agents. Patience This also tells you the market for all players is not nearly as hot as before 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: If nobody will pay the asking price though, he's not worth the asking price I mean, sure. But isn't there always a "stailmate" in all trade discussions? We don't know what's being offered I presume. If we are firm at Kjerstad AND Westburg, that seems like a lot. But if they're firm at a Westburg, Beavers and McDermott (3 player) deal, then that is an easy pass and wait until the deadline offer as that can easily be matched even without an improved Cease. The only risk, is injury or a Manoah like collapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 All I can think about right now is that the Orioles not getting a frontline starter is like the Sox avoiding genuine attempts to fill RF and 2B during the rebuild/brief playoff runs 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Quin said: All I can think about right now is that the Orioles not getting a frontline starter is like the Sox avoiding genuine attempts to fill RF and 2B during the rebuild/brief playoff runs - Baltimore fans right now 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Quin said: All I can think about right now is that the Orioles not getting a frontline starter is like the Sox avoiding genuine attempts to fill RF and 2B during the rebuild/brief playoff runs Yeah, I hate their pitching staff (for a playoff contender) and their bullpen makes me nervous given that their best guy (Cano) had a career year last year with not much success prior. Wild to be that they have yet to make any improvement in either of those areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Again, I question whether you’ve actually watched playoff baseball Extremely weird and short-sighted behavior I question if you have actually looked at the Orioles pitching staff at the moment because they don’t have much after Bradish and Rodriguez. And yes the playoffs are a crapshoot, but their offense will need to be historically good to carry that pitching staff deep into the playoffs as things stand right now. That’s not a risk they should be taking at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 24 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: I saw a tweet that said on this date last year there were 3 unsigned top 50 free agents. This year there are still 21 unsigned top 50 free agents. Patience Honestly, this is a problem for MLB. Other than the Dodgers, this has been a very boring offseason for the sport. I don't know how to fix it but they need to do something about it to make the offseason more engaging for fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 9 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: I question if you have actually looked at the Orioles pitching staff at the moment because they don’t have much after Bradish and Rodriguez. And yes the playoffs are a crapshoot, but their offense will need to be historically good to carry that pitching staff deep into the playoffs as things stand right now. That’s not a risk they should be taking at this point. There isn’t a team in baseball that has even 4 starters better than Kremer (and I’m not a big Kremer fan) and Means has had a lot of success. What he is post TJ surgery we don’t know. But if Means can get back to where he was and Kremer continues to be solid, they will have a front 4 better than most teams. That said, they still lack that third guy you need in the playoffs and it may be asking a lot for Kremer to be as good and Means to come back strong. I would say 3/5 of the rotation is a question mark but you have history with 2 of those guys that suggests they should be fine. And Bradish and GRod can easily pitch well enough where you don’t need “historical offensive performances”. That’s completely over the top. Edited January 19 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: There isn’t a team in baseball that has even 4 starters better than Kremer (and I’m not a big Kremer fan) and Means has had a lot of success. What he is post TJ surgery we don’t know. But if Means can get back to where he was and Kremer continues to be solid, they will have a front 4 better than most teams. That said, they still lack that third guy you need in the playoffs and it may be asking a lot for Kremer to be as good and Means to come back strong. I would say 3/5 of the rotation is a question mark but you have history with 2 of those guys that suggests they should be fine. Dodgers have eight to ten lol. https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-mlb-pitching-rotations-2023 White Sox now have 2/6th’s of one of the best rotations in baseball entering last year, the Atlanta Braves, lol. Edited January 19 by caulfield12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: There isn’t a team in baseball that has even 4 starters better than Kremer (and I’m not a big Kremer fan) and Means has had a lot of success. What he is post TJ surgery we don’t know. But if Means can get back to where he was and Kremer continues to be solid, they will have a front 4 better than most teams. That said, they still lack that third guy you need in the playoffs and it may be asking a lot for Kremer to be as good and Means to come back strong. I would say 3/5 of the rotation is a question mark but you have history with 2 of those guys that suggests they should be fine. And Bradish and GRod can easily pitch well enough where you don’t need “historical offensive performances”. That’s completely over the top. There are just way too many question marks on that pitching staff for my liking. Bradish and Rodriguez: both had great seasons, but are relatively inexperienced. It’s not impossible that one or both of them takes a step back to some extent. Means: great pitcher, but has had a lot of injuries. Who knows what you’re getting from him at this point. Kremer: Decent, but not someone you want starting a playoff game. Wells: Tends to fade in the 2nd half. That’s not even getting to the bullpen which is obviously a lot weaker with the loss of Bautista. Bottom line, they need more pitching. Too many question marks right now for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: There are just way too many question marks on that pitching staff for my liking. Bradish and Rodriguez: both had great seasons, but are relatively inexperienced. It’s not impossible that one or both of them takes a step back to some extent. Means: great pitcher, but has had a lot of injuries. Who knows what you’re getting from him at this point. Kremer: Decent, but not someone you want starting a playoff game. Wells: Tends to fade in the 2nd half. That’s not even getting to the bullpen which is obviously a lot weaker with the loss of Bautista. Bottom line, they need more pitching. Too many question marks right now for my liking. They do need more and I don’t necessarily disagree with what you are saying but while both of the top guys are inexperienced, there is very little to say they are taking some sort of a step back. In fact, GRod should be a lot better overall and Bradish has been excellent for 1.5 years, so there isn’t much in his stats that say you expect him to be worse. I want a true #3 or better guy and one more legit BP arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 23 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: Honestly, this is a problem for MLB. Other than the Dodgers, this has been a very boring offseason for the sport. I don't know how to fix it but they need to do something about it to make the offseason more engaging for fans. Yeah there are a lot of solid MLB players still out there that can help a lot of teams, even if you remove the top 5-7 guys. Teams should be adding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Dean Kremer 3.6 career fWAR John Means 3.3 fWAR last four seasons combined Grayson Rodriguez 1.8 fWAR Tyler Wells 2.4 fWAR Total=11.1 fWAR Dylan Cease over just the last THREE years 12.6 fWAR HAHAHAHAHA 2 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: They do need more and I don’t necessarily disagree with what you are saying but while both of the top guys are inexperienced, there is very little to say they are taking some sort of a step back. In fact, GRod should be a lot better overall and Bradish has been excellent for 1.5 years, so there isn’t much in his stats that say you expect him to be worse. I want a true #3 or better guy and one more legit BP arm. The thing that concerns me most with Bradish and Rodriguez are their workloads. Both guys pitched a lot more innings in 2023 than they did in 2022. Not sure how that will impact them going forward. Might not be a factor at all, but who knows. That’s why I think a guy like Cease fits them, you know he’s durable and will always take the ball so they can give other guys breaks if needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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