Cease To Padres per Passan

[SoCalChiSox]

55 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Hypothetical (unlikely, I know):

Sox are at .500 record wise and hold a 3 game lead in the horrible division in July. What do they do with Cease?

I'm not asking what YOU would do. I'm asking what you think Getz will do.

Still sell.

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Still sell.

That's the proper thing to do, but we all know they'd keep him in delusional hopes of making a run at the division.

[WestEddy]

29 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

That's the proper thing to do, but we all know they'd keep him in delusional hopes of making a run at the division.

If they're 3 games up in July, it's not so delusional. 

[Eminor3rd]

If the going rate for Burnes is an old, low-ceiling IF prospect, a high-variance project arm, and a (n essentially) second round pick, then it's reasonable to hold Cease for the deadline. Deadline markets tend to increase the value for pending free agents, but there's always a premium for the second year of control. Yes, there's risk, but the Sox have to try to do better than what's on the table now -- and if Cease is healthy and effective, they likely will.

[Highland]

15 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If they're 3 games up in July, it's not so delusional. 

Does this mean the rest of the division will be under .500 too?

[LittleHurtCG]

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

If the going rate for Burnes is an old, low-ceiling IF prospect, a high-variance project arm, and a (n essentially) second round pick, then it's reasonable to hold Cease for the deadline. Deadline markets tend to increase the value for pending free agents, but there's always a premium for the second year of control. Yes, there's risk, but the Sox have to try to do better than what's on the table now -- and if Cease is healthy and effective, they likely will.

Let's say Cease has a rough first half. Do you take something similiar to what the Brewers got for Burnes at the trade deadline or do you keep demanding your way or the highway? 

[Bob Sacamano]

51 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

That's the proper thing to do, but we all know they'd keep him in delusional hopes of making a run at the division.

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, Highland said:

Does this mean the rest of the division will be under .500 too?

If the Sox are at .500 and are 3 games up, yes. 

[LittleHurtCG]

4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

Concur. We all know guys like Snell, Montgomery, and Bellinger will never happen in a million years, but they should have spent more on 1 year deals for a few more players with upside potential. This organization has already shown that they do not have the infrastucture in place to do a total rebuild. Trying to catch lighting in a bottle is the only way forward as long as JR is the owner. 

 

[Eminor3rd]

14 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Let's say Cease has a rough first half. Do you take something similiar to what the Brewers got for Burnes at the trade deadline or do you keep demanding your way or the highway? 

I think it depends how the rough first half occurred. Is it an elevated ERA or BABIP with solid peripherals? Possibly hold. Is it reduced velocity, increased hard hit rate? I'd take the Burnes-ish return. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

Hypothetical (unlikely, I know):

Sox are at .500 record wise and hold a 3 game lead in the horrible division in July. What do they do with Cease?

I'm not asking what YOU would do. I'm asking what you think Getz will do.

That's a scenario that is 99.8 % unlikely but just to indulge you, 3 games up in the least likely to go far in the playoffs division is pretender status not contender.

The whole off season has been to try to create tradable assets from unlikely sources through good defense and a new pitching guru. Getz would not deviate from that path since a 3 game lead would mean some level of success. The acquired assets were all meant to be short term tradable if possible assets. The better the Sox do the more trades they make at the deadline and would prove that Getz had a very good start to his GM career.

[Quin]

38 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

This is the funniest aspect of it all.

Tearing it down to studs for to gain...what? Tim Hill, Martin Maldonado and Chris Flexen?

[Tnetennba]

42 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

Or at least signed more flippable guys. I don't think spending $200M would even get them very far, but at least get something out if beside a crap pick for sucking ass.

[SoCalChiSox]

53 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

There's no way they can commit to spending when they spent 180m plus two years in a row (alot for JR and his partners based on history), got little attendance and even less playoff TV money in response, and also allegedly had some losses during COVID.

JR was likely taking heat from the partners about the need for some profits so they were always going to financially reset if/when it was clear the rebuild failed.

They got almost no ROI for what they spent from 2020-2023. 

They are going to get some ROI now because of 60m cut in payroll. 

Edited February 2 by SoCalChiSox

[Dick Allen]

51 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

As soon as they were locked into not picking higher than 10th, they should have committed to spending.

I agree. They didn't have to go nuts, but at least try to put something on the field where if everything went right, they were decent. The 10th pick for 2024 had 78 wins in 2023, so their draft position will not be hurt unless things went right and they actually won some games. And isn't that the strategy with the Bulls?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's a scenario that is 99.8 % unlikely but just to indulge you, 3 games up in the least likely to go far in the playoffs division is pretender status not contender.

The whole off season has been to try to create tradable assets from unlikely sources through good defense and a new pitching guru. Getz would not deviate from that path since a 3 game lead would mean some level of success. The acquired assets were all meant to be short term tradable if possible assets. The better the Sox do the more trades they make at the deadline and would prove that Getz had a very good start to his GM career.

I don’t care what you call it, being .500 and making the playoffs would be a huge win for the Sox even if they get swept in the first round. It seems like 3/4 seasons the Sox aren’t playing meaningful baseball in August/July so it would be nice if that changed.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Concur. We all know guys like Snell, Montgomery, and Bellinger will never happen in a million years, but they should have spent more on 1 year deals for a few more players with upside potential. This organization has already shown that they do not have the infrastucture in place to do a total rebuild. Trying to catch lighting in a bottle is the only way forward as long as JR is the owner. 

 

Well, yeah. That's more what I meant. Better 1-2 year deal type guys.

[Bob Sacamano]

57 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Or at least signed more flippable guys. I don't think spending $200M would even get them very far, but at least get something out if beside a crap pick for sucking ass.

Yeah that's kind of what I meant. Not saying go out and sign stars (well, because they don't).

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said:

There's no way they can commit to spending when they spent 180m plus two years in a row (alot for JR and his partners based on history), got little attendance and even less playoff TV money in response, and also allegedly had some losses during COVID.

JR was likely taking heat from the partners about the need for some profits so they were always going to financially reset if/when it was clear the rebuild failed.

They got almost no ROI for what they spent from 2020-2023. 

They are going to get some ROI now because of 60m cut in payroll. 

You are assuming of course the Sox lost money during this time period.

We'll never know for sure of course since they won't open the books and let an independent economic auditor examine them.

Color me very skeptical they lost money at all.

[Highland]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

If the Sox are at .500 and are 3 games up, yes. 

Who says the Sox will be at .500?

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Highland said:

Who says the Sox will be at .500?

SoxBlanco, in his hypothetical:

 

Quote

Hypothetical (unlikely, I know):

Sox are at .500 record wise and hold a 3 game lead in the horrible division in July. What do they do with Cease?

I'm not asking what YOU would do. I'm asking what you think Getz will do.
 

 

[ptatc]

41 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

You are assuming of course the Sox lost money during this time period.

We'll never know for sure of course since they won't open the books and let an independent economic auditor examine them.

Color me very skeptical they lost money at all.

 No reason to open the books until the union agrees to a salary cap. 

[South Side Hit Men]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:29 PM, Quin said:

This is the funniest aspect of it all.

Tearing it down to studs for to gain...what? Tim Hill, Martin Maldonado and Chris Flexen?

What I would have liked to have seen, both in real time and to this day, would be a better effort to have kept the elite All Time White Sox around through the end of their careers. Would have been great if Buehrle, Thomas and Abreu would have stayed their entire careers with the White Sox.

The first two had great years after leaving, and I believe Abreu would have stayed on a reasonable deal, signed in season, if he was shown more respect by the FO his final season (say 2 / $38M, would get not matching Houston's offer if he wasn't extended in season). Would have liked the same for Giolito (though wasn't going to happen under Jerry, don't regret the trade as a result) and at least through 2022 said the same about Tim (think it was best for both to go their separate ways after last season).

Perhaps @Lip Man 1or someone else alive could speak to what lead Joe Horlen to leave for a final season with Oakland, which allowed him to appear in ALCS and World Series and win a ring. Oakland picked him up after the Sox released him at the end of Spring Training, before being signed by Oakland 17 days later. Perhaps they were doing him a favor like the did when they sent Adam Dunn to Oakland for September for a chance to play for his first playoff team (a wild card birth).

7 of the Top 50 Hitter bWAR and 10 of the Top 50 Pitcher Chicago White Sox Career bWAR leaders spent their entire Major League career with the White Sox. Luke Appling and Ted Lyons are the two lone BBWAA elected hall of famers, with Ed Walsh (highest BBWAA vote total 55,5% in 1945) elected via the Old Timers Committee shortly after the BBHOF was established, and Red Faber (highest BBWAA vote total 30.9% in 1960) elected via the Veterans Committee eighteen years later.

Ted Lyons is the only White Sox for life inductee who broke the 75% BBWAA vote threshold without a run off election.

Top 50 All Time bWAR White Sox For Life (13.1 + for Hitters and 10.8 + for Pitchers)

Modern Era Hitters

• 16.2 Tim Anderson (2016-2023) - Will drop off if he signs and plays for another organization.
• 14.6 Ron Karkovice (1986-1997)

Modern Era Pitchers

• 20.2 John Danks (2007-2016)
• 11.8 Dylan Cease (2019-Current)

Segregation Era Hitters

• 77.5 Luke Appling (1930-1950) 1964 BBHOF (70.6% - 94.0% via the 1964 Run Off Election)
• 24.4 Johnny Mostil (1918-1929) BBWAA highest ballot 0.5% 1956
• 21.2 Buck Weaver (1912-1920) 1917 World Series Champion & 1919 American League Pennant Winner
• 20.9 Lee Tannehill (1903-1912) 1906 World Series Champion
• 19.4 Happy Felsch (1915-1920) 1917 World Series Champion & 1919 American League Pennant Winner

Segregation Era Pitchers

• 70.6 Ted Lyons (1923-1946) 1955 BBHOF (BBWAA 86.5%)
• 63.9 Red Faber (1914-1933) 1964 Veterans Committee BBHOF + 1917 World Series Champion & 1919 American League Pennant Winner
• 25.1 Jim Scott (1909-1917) 1917 World Series Champion
• 20.2 Johnny Rigney (1937-1947) Married Charlie Comiskey's Granddaughter and became co-GM.
• 16.4 Joe Benz (1911-1919) 1917 World Series Champion
• 14.0 Roy Patterson (1901-1907) 1906 World Series Champion
• 12.2 Ted Blankenship (1922-1930)

Edited February 7 by South Side Hit Men

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

2 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Or at least signed more flippable guys. I don't think spending $200M would even get them very far, but at least get something out if beside a crap pick for sucking ass.

I think they look at the flippable guys as already being on the team: Moncada and Eloy

If either of them have a remotely productive year they are gone. I think Getz wants to totally gut this team and reshape it into something else.

[ChiSox59]

16 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I think they look at the flippable guys as already being on the team: Moncada and Eloy

If either of them have a remotely productive year they are gone. I think Getz wants to totally gut this team and reshape it into something else.

You might be able to dump Moncada if he has a 2019 like first half, but he absolutely is not “flippable”. Dude is making $29M in calendar year 2024. Eloy could maybe return something interesting like Gio did if he stays healthy and rakes. Big time if. He’s also due around $17M in 2024.