baseball_gal_aly Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: All talk of Javy being good, actually, ended when he put the Sox uniform on. I cannot recall a more disappointing pitcher and a more unified fan response Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a lot of meh. Again, a lot like Javy. Edited July 5 by baseball_gal_aly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: All talk of Javy being good, actually, ended when he put the Sox uniform on. I cannot recall a more disappointing pitcher and a more unified fan response The Jamie Navarro experience was it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a loy of meh. Again, a lot like Javy. Not really but this argument isn’t going anywhere 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just now, southsider2k5 said: The Jamie Navarro experience was it for me. This is true. Although the complaint with Navarro was “please don’t let him ever pitch” where Javy was “don’t let him start the 6th with a close lead” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 13 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a lot of meh. Again, a lot like Javy. Cease is a career 3.88 ERA with 10+ K/9 I wish we had a rotation full of that meh Edited July 5 by T R U 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: This is true. Although the complaint with Navarro was “please don’t let him ever pitch” where Javy was “don’t let him start the 6th with a close lead” One of my favorite SoxFest stories ever was meeting Cal Eldred like a month after we traded for him from Milwaukee for Navarro. I told him how excited Sox fans were to have him here, and the guy who was sitting next to him doing security looks over at him and said "Yeah, you are the most popular guy in Chicago right now.". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: The Jamie Navarro experience was it for me. Todd Ritchie, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxmb35 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 hours ago, T R U said: Cease has a 3.27 FIP and is striking out 11.5 per nine. He's also walking batters at a career best 2.8 per nine, also second best WHIP hes had since the 2022 season. He's a pretty good pitcher still. Nobody is saying he isn't "pretty good", they're saying he's not peak Verlander like the resurrected quoted post mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm talking about a guy that consistently has an ERA higher than his FIP and people are like "he's good actually" Vazquez had good years too, but at some point actual run prevention matters. Aly You are being too logical. Because we would rather stick to the FIP and these other metrics and not look at the fact that the dude keeps giving up runs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 33 minutes ago, JoeC said: Todd Ritchie, anyone? Todd was just bad. Navarro was bad and mad at us about it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, T R U said: Cease is a career 3.88 ERA with 10+ K/9 I wish we had a rotation full of that meh Cease is no Garrett Crochet but certainly a solid #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 31 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said: Nobody is saying he isn't "pretty good", they're saying he's not peak Verlander like the resurrected quoted post mentioned. Correct. Outside of 2022, Cease has never been peak Verlander. He’s more like “peak Javy Vazquez” when he’s going good. That’s certainly good for a solid #3 but 2024 Erick Fedde is also a solid #3 and the Sox aren’t going to get a king’s ransom when they trade him later this month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 33 minutes ago, 2Deep said: Aly You are being too logical. Because we would rather stick to the FIP and these other metrics and not look at the fact that the dude keeps giving up runs. FIP is basically broken in the current hitting environment. For starters ERA still works well enough imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, T R U said: Cease is a career 3.88 ERA with 10+ K/9 I wish we had a rotation full of that meh what is his career ERA if you remove the 2022 anomaly? Cease, outside of that 4.01 3.91 4.58 4.24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm talking about a guy that consistently has an ERA higher than his FIP and people are like "he's good actually" Vazquez had good years too, but at some point actual run prevention matters. Weird that Cease’s career ERA of 3.88 is nearly identical to his career FIP of 3.78…? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Correct. Outside of 2022, Cease has never been peak Verlander. He’s more like “peak Javy Vazquez” when he’s going good. That’s certainly good for a solid #3 but 2024 Erick Fedde is also a solid #3 and the Sox aren’t going to get a king’s ransom when they trade him later this month. Peak Javy Vazquez was a 140 ERA+. Cease was a 180. When Cease was going good, he was the runner up Cy Young, Vazquez, no. Career Vazquez was a 105, Cease was a 110. I don't know what grave that the corpse of Javy Vazquez got dug up out of, but put him back this is ain't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The thing cease did provide and he’s well on his way again is consistent innings. Amazing given the number of pitches he throws each inning but he has figured out a way to stay healthy. He’ll probably be near 175+ IP this year, his 4th straight above 150. He did an amazing job on his health. So he’s often a #3 pitcher but has shown his upside as a #1. Still extremely valuable when paired with his durability. As a GM I’d probably still pay more for Garrett’s upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a lot of meh. Again, a lot like Javy. Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, bmags said: The thing cease did provide and he’s well on his way again is consistent innings. Amazing given the number of pitches he throws each inning but he has figured out a way to stay healthy. He’ll probably be near 175+ IP this year, his 4th straight above 150. He did an amazing job on his health. So he’s often a #3 pitcher but has shown his upside as a #1. Still extremely valuable when paired with his durability. As a GM I’d probably still pay more for Garrett’s upside. Crochet is a guy that can single handedly win you two games in a 7 game series by going 14 innings and allowing 1 run. That def has a premium attached to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 1 minute ago, Paulie4Pres said: Lord. I swear the name was thrown out there just for a reaction as opposed to actually comparing the two guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 16 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: what is his career ERA if you remove the 2022 anomaly? Cease, outside of that 4.01 3.91 4.58 4.24 You can’t just eliminate an entire season to support your ridiculous comparison. It happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Sox should Cease and desist regarding any and all trade offers of Robert and Crochet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just now, greg775 said: Sox should Cease and desist regarding any and all trade offers of Robert and Crochet. Who did you plagiarize this from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Who did you plagiarize this from? Joe Buck. ... I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) My argument was that for the majority of his career, Cease has underperformed his FIP consistently. I brought up Vazquez because he's another example of that, that Sox fans know well. Cease, in reality is a mid rotation pitcher that stays healthy. I don't think it's too out of touch to say that. And the last 2 seasons he's been closer to a #4. Last year I could have bought the shitty D argument but now that he's on another team it's time to admit the dude just gives up too many runs to be a TOR starter. Getz did well in the trade. Edited July 5 by baseball_gal_aly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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