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Cease To Padres per Passan


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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

All talk of Javy being good, actually, ended when he put the Sox uniform on.  I cannot recall a more disappointing pitcher and a more unified fan response 

Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a lot of meh. 

Again, a lot like Javy. 

Edited by baseball_gal_aly
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2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

All talk of Javy being good, actually, ended when he put the Sox uniform on.  I cannot recall a more disappointing pitcher and a more unified fan response 

The Jamie Navarro experience was it for me.

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1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a loy of meh. 

Again, a lot like Javy. 

Not really but this argument isn’t going anywhere

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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

The Jamie Navarro experience was it for me.

This is true.  Although the complaint with Navarro was “please don’t let him ever pitch” where Javy was “don’t let him start the 6th with a close lead”

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Cease has had one outstanding year surrounded by a lot of meh. 

Again, a lot like Javy. 

Cease is a career 3.88 ERA with 10+ K/9

I wish we had a rotation full of that meh

Edited by T R U
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22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

This is true.  Although the complaint with Navarro was “please don’t let him ever pitch” where Javy was “don’t let him start the 6th with a close lead”

One of my favorite SoxFest stories ever was meeting Cal Eldred like a month after we traded for him from Milwaukee for Navarro.  I told him how excited Sox fans were to have him here, and the guy who was sitting next to him doing security looks over at him and said "Yeah, you are the most popular guy in Chicago right now.".

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3 hours ago, T R U said:

Cease has a 3.27 FIP and is striking out 11.5 per nine.

He's also walking batters at a career best 2.8 per nine, also second best WHIP hes had since the 2022 season.

He's a pretty good pitcher still.

 

Nobody is saying he isn't "pretty good", they're saying he's not peak Verlander like the resurrected quoted post mentioned. 

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2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I'm talking about a guy that consistently has an ERA higher than his FIP and people are like "he's good actually"

Vazquez had good years too, but at some point actual run prevention matters. 

Aly

You are being too logical. Because we would rather stick to the FIP and these other metrics and not look at the fact that the dude keeps giving up runs.

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31 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

Nobody is saying he isn't "pretty good", they're saying he's not peak Verlander like the resurrected quoted post mentioned. 

Correct. Outside of 2022, Cease has never been peak Verlander. He’s more like “peak Javy Vazquez” when he’s going good. That’s certainly good for a solid #3 but 2024 Erick Fedde is also a solid #3 and the Sox aren’t going to get a king’s ransom when they trade him later this month.

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33 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

Aly

You are being too logical. Because we would rather stick to the FIP and these other metrics and not look at the fact that the dude keeps giving up runs.

FIP is basically broken in the current hitting environment. For starters ERA still works well enough imo. 

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2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I'm talking about a guy that consistently has an ERA higher than his FIP and people are like "he's good actually"

Vazquez had good years too, but at some point actual run prevention matters. 

Weird that Cease’s career ERA of 3.88 is nearly identical to his career FIP of 3.78…?

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6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Correct. Outside of 2022, Cease has never been peak Verlander. He’s more like “peak Javy Vazquez” when he’s going good. That’s certainly good for a solid #3 but 2024 Erick Fedde is also a solid #3 and the Sox aren’t going to get a king’s ransom when they trade him later this month.

Peak Javy Vazquez was a 140 ERA+.  Cease was a 180.  When Cease was going good, he was the runner up Cy Young, Vazquez, no.  Career Vazquez was a 105, Cease was a 110.  I don't know what grave that the corpse of Javy Vazquez got dug up out of, but put him back this is ain't it. 

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The thing cease did provide and he’s well on his way again is consistent innings. Amazing given the number of pitches he throws each inning but he has figured out a way to stay healthy. He’ll probably be near 175+ IP this year, his 4th straight above 150.

He did an amazing job on his health.

So he’s often a #3 pitcher but has shown his upside as a #1. Still extremely valuable when paired with his durability.

As a GM I’d probably still pay more for Garrett’s upside.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

The thing cease did provide and he’s well on his way again is consistent innings. Amazing given the number of pitches he throws each inning but he has figured out a way to stay healthy. He’ll probably be near 175+ IP this year, his 4th straight above 150.

He did an amazing job on his health.

So he’s often a #3 pitcher but has shown his upside as a #1. Still extremely valuable when paired with his durability.

As a GM I’d probably still pay more for Garrett’s upside.

Crochet is a guy that can single handedly win you two games in a 7 game series by going 14 innings and allowing 1 run. 

That def has a premium attached to it.

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16 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

what is his career ERA if you remove the 2022 anomaly? 

Cease, outside of that

4.01

3.91

4.58

4.24

 

You can’t just eliminate an entire season to support your ridiculous comparison. It happened. 

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Posted (edited)

My argument was that for the majority of his career, Cease has underperformed his FIP consistently. 

I brought up Vazquez because he's another example of that, that Sox fans know well.

Cease, in reality is a mid rotation pitcher that stays healthy. I don't think it's too out of touch to say that. And the last 2 seasons he's been closer to a #4. 

Last year I could have bought the shitty D argument but now that he's on another team it's time to admit the dude just gives up too many runs to be a TOR starter. 

Getz did well in the trade. 

Edited by baseball_gal_aly
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