Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Holliday is the next Yoan Moncada. Just kidding. Sox fans will attempt to convince Os fans they will lose the second tier of the farm if thry try to hold onto all of them…or that they will age out as legit prospects. Or that Mayo/Basallo could go to the Sox. Seems like Baltimore might be kicking the tires on Luis Robert Jr. as well. So what does a deal for Crochet and Robert look like in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 My opinion probably wouldn’t be popular on the O’s board but I’d offer. Crochet and Robert For Basallo, Bradfield , McDermott, Bright, and Stowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 26 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: That might be a better take than Planet of Apes as second worst movie of all time. I only know Vampire facials cosmetic skin care procedures. Will have to report on any more free agents in the KBO next Thurs…and makes a suggestion they add KPop-influenced dugout cheerleaders for the last two months of the season. Most famous dance team…plays out of Incheon. 39 year old captain/fitness trainer oldest in the KBO. Yea man right on 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 19 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Yeah …He’s off to a nice start. By looking at his stats K’s are the only real concern. Hopefully that increases as he gets some experience. Cool thanks Kyle Hendricks wasn’t a big K guy either and he’s often the comp for Thorpe. Don’t need big K numbers to be highly successful despite what the advanced metrics folks say. My one concern with Thorpe has been his walks but I think that’s simply a function of him nibbling too much after he’s ahead in the count. Once he gets more comfortable and learns to trust his stuff at the big league level that should improve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 3 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Not really looking to argue. I mentioned Crochet since the rumor is they have discussed him. The Orioles are clearly looking to upgrade. For me Fedde has so over performed his career numbers that I’m not really interested. Crochet is interesting but his limited availability is a concern as well. But, we need a reliever as well …perhaps more. So they could limit his innings by using him as a reliever before the playoffs. I’d be okay with dealing an outfielder and a couple other guys for Crochet. We obviously have a surplus. What would you be asking? Keep in mind Santander is gone after the season. Then Hays and Mullins after next. So the surplus isn’t as big as it appears. Back to relieving feels more likely to lead to another injury. 15 teams in on him. At least. Fedde must be at least 10-12. Would likely throw Kopech into trade to assist with 2024 as well. Yes Hays OHearn Santander Mullins all on the way out. Will have to figure out how to fit Kjerstad (dh), Cowser, Westburg, Holliday, Henderson, Adley, Mayo, Basallo…and the second tier guys like Beavers and Bradfield. Win now move for LAD Orioles Padres Seattle…would be Luis Robert Jr. with 2 1/2 years remaining of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 27 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: @JUSTgottaBELIEVE I have no interest in a reunion with Jack Flaherty. I realize you guys clashed with some of the O’s posters but I’m not one of them. So what are your thoughts on Crochet and a potential trade with the Orioles? With Burnes all but gone after the season and a need for an impact SP for the playoffs this season, Crochet seems to be the perfect addition for you guys. However, the challenge becomes the price and Elias seems to want to win trades more than he wants to win championships. IMO, a Crochet trade requires a centerpiece of Holiday (least likely), Basallo, or Mayo (most likely). If I were Elias, I’d easily offer up something like Mayo, Beavers, & McDermott, but I’m guessing the bulk of your board would pass on that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 3 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: My opinion probably wouldn’t be popular on the O’s board but I’d offer. Crochet and Robert For Basallo, Bradfield , McDermott, Bright, and Stowers. That is way too light. That’s closer to the price of one of those guys vs. two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: That is way too light. That’s closer to the price of one of those guys vs. two. Would rather have 2-3 studs than the old “be we got five guys for Rafael Palmeiro!!!” except the bust rate can’t be that high for your top two assets. Eventually, at any rate, the Dodgers Phillies and Yankees are going to force private equity/venture capital to fight….or they risk turning into the Chiefs of the 80s and 90s. Basallo not even a sure thing at catcher…would also need Mayo AND anyone remaining not named Cowser OR Kjerstad. Edited July 6 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: That is way too light. That’s closer to the price of one of those guys vs. two. So the Cease trade netted the #85 prospect (system #5), #7 , #8 , and a middle reliever. From that deal I mentioned Youd get the Orioles #2 (#12 per MLB that will be higher when they produce their fall list), #4, #7, #15, and a major league ready power hitting corner OF. It might be a little light …but no way it’s “Way”. BTW, due to injury concerns Crochet is not as valuable as Cease imo. Robert also has injury concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Would rather have 2-3 studs than the old “be we got five guys for Rafael Palmeiro!!!” except the bust rate can’t be that high for your top two assets. Eventually, at any rate, the Dodgers Phillies and Yankees are going to force private equity/venture capital to fight….or they risk turning into the Chiefs of the 80s and 90s. Basallo not even a sure thing at catcher…would also need Mayo AND anyone remaining not named Cowser OR Kjerstad. So you got #85 for Cease but think you’ll get two top #10 in MLB prospects for Crochet and Robert. If they didn’t if the injury concerns you might be in the zip code. IMO Cease had more trade value than either of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 42 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: My opinion probably wouldn’t be popular on the O’s board but I’d offer. Crochet and Robert For Basallo, Bradfield , McDermott, Bright, and Stowers. That’s not the sort of package Getz is looking for. They are looking for big impact, super young players to fit a much later timeline. Basallo fits that, but Bradfield lacks impact, McDermott wouldn’t be front of the line for Sox pitchers, and Stowers is 26, has to be on the 40 and has already burned a bunch of options. I’m sure the Dodgers rejected offer for Crochet had similar volume over talent profiles. Plus, they aren’t packaging these guys. The PR hit for trading either of them for anything less than a haul is gonna be huge. But I can see how the O’s might consider this a relatively fair offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 18 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: So the Cease trade netted the #85 prospect (system #5), #7 , #8 , and a middle reliever. From that deal I mentioned Youd get the Orioles #2 (#12 per MLB that will be higher when they produce their fall list), #4, #7, #15, and a major league ready power hitting corner OF. It might be a little light …but no way it’s “Way”. BTW, due to injury concerns Crochet is not as valuable as Cease imo. Robert also has injury concerns. First off, not sure where this #85 prospect ranking came from, but Thorpe was much higher rated than that on most sites. IMO, he was a legit 55 FV pitching prospect as the time of the trade and a solid centerpiece but obviously much more of a high floor guy than ceiling. The other two guys were a 50 FV pitching prospect (who was cracking some top 100 lists) and a highly interesting 45+ FV positional prospect, both guys with some helium. The reliever will eventually be flipped for additional prospect currency. I was very supportive of the trade at the time, but was also able to acknowledge then and now we were likely selling low on Cease as he was coming off a disappointing season. Crochet is being sold at a high point and in a market where is there no one else even remotely like him. He’s the one SP available who could greatly increase a team’s odds of winning a World Series this year. Yes, there is risk he runs out of steam at some point, but teams will either need to come up with a plan to keep him strong for October or try to acquire much lesser options. The Sox aren’t going to give a massive discount on him in this market. Regardless, I don’t see the rationale in comparing Crochet to Cease. Crochet has been the best pitcher in baseball this season and if you watch him pitch you’d realize how special he truly is. The price for him alone is going to be much higher than Cease’s. And then you causally include Robert in the deal like he won’t be the best positional player available at the deadline with 3 1/3 years of control on a very reasonable deal. His value is enormous and the price will reflect that. No doubt you have the talent to the acquire both of them, but it’s very clear you guys won’t like the price for one for one of them let alone both of them. Like I said, your proposal is much closer to the price I’d need to just give up Crochet. Now if you wanted someone like Kopech thrown in, we’d be much more in the ballpark, but I’m still not in love with Stowers and would prefer Beavers over Barfield. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rolle Tide said: So you got #85 for Cease but think you’ll get two top #10 in MLB prospects for Crochet and Robert. If they didn’t if the injury concerns you might be in the zip code. IMO Cease had more trade value than either of these guys. Have you noticed how few impact bats that can field at GG level are out there right now? 24:$12.5M, 25:$15M, 26:$20M club option ($2M buyout). 27:$20M club option ($2M buyout) Benintendi gets 75% of that…lol. The going price for superstars is $25 million and up. Edited July 6 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Rolle Tide said: So you got #85 for Cease but think you’ll get two top #10 in MLB prospects for Crochet and Robert. If they didn’t if the injury concerns you might be in the zip code. IMO Cease had more trade value than either of these guys. Crochet is a unicorn. Cease is a really nice #2/3. Said elsewhere but CF is currently the weakest offensive position in baseball. Robert Is a huge upgrade for a team there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Crochet is a unicorn. Cease is a really nice #2/3. Said elsewhere but CF is currently the weakest offensive position in baseball. Robert Is a huge upgrade for a team there. What would you need from the O’s to move Crochet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What would you need from the O’s to move Crochet? Holliday + Wagner + Horvath 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: First off, not sure where this #85 prospect ranking came from, but Thorpe was much higher rated than that on most sites. IMO, he was a legit 55 FV pitching prospect as the time of the trade and a solid centerpiece but obviously much more of a high floor guy than ceiling. The other two guys were a 50 FV pitching prospect (who was cracking some top 100 lists) and a highly interesting 45+ FV positional prospect, both guys with some helium. The reliever will eventually be flipped for additional prospect currency. I was very supportive of the trade at the time, but was also able to acknowledge then and now we were likely selling low on Cease as he was coming off a disappointing season. Crochet is being sold at a high point and in a market where is there no one else even remotely like him. He’s the one SP available who could greatly increase a team’s odds of winning a World Series this year. Yes, there is risk he runs out of steam at some point, but teams will either need to come up with a plan to keep him strong for October or try to acquire much lesser options. The Sox aren’t going to give a massive discount on him in this market. Regardless, I don’t see the rationale in comparing Crochet to Cease. Crochet has been the best pitcher in baseball this season and if you watch him pitch you’d realize how special he truly is. The price for him alone is going to be much higher than Cease’s. And then you causally include Robert in the deal like he won’t be the best positional player available at the deadline with 3 1/3 years of control on a very reasonable deal. His value is enormous and the price will reflect that. No doubt you have the talent to the acquire both of them, but it’s very clear you guys won’t like the price for one for one of them let alone both of them. Like I said, your proposal is much closer to the price I’d need to just give up Crochet. Now if you wanted someone like Kopech thrown in, we’d be much more in the ballpark, but I’m still not in love with Stowers and would prefer Beavers over Barfield. Quote TRADE DETAILS Padres receive: RHP Dylan Cease White Sox receive: RHP Drew Thorpe (MLB Pipeline's No. 85 prospect; SD No. 5), OF Samuel Zavala (SD No. 7), RHP Jairo Iriarte (SD No. 8), RHP Steven Wilson https://www.mlb.com/news/dylan-cease-padres-white-sox-trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Crochet is a unicorn. Cease is a really nice #2/3. Said elsewhere but CF is currently the weakest offensive position in baseball. Robert Is a huge upgrade for a team there. You guys are funny …. Go back and read the Cease threads here. Legit ACE….top talent. Now somebody here is calling him a really nice 2 to 3 Crochet is having an awesome season …. But 24 last year and 54 the year before. He’s certainly an injury concern. Plus there is zero chance he reproduces the 1st half as he will need to be extremely limited or shutdown at some point. So a buyer has to be looking for future value as opposed to what he’s likely to give in the second half. I’m sure Getz wants to sell High but rival GMs looking for help at the deadline will consider his health and availability when considering his value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: So you got #85 for Cease but think you’ll get two top #10 in MLB prospects for Crochet and Robert. If they didn’t if the injury concerns you might be in the zip code. IMO Cease had more trade value than either of these guys. even during his best year, Cease walked a ton of guys. Crochet looks to be as dominant as any one in baseball. I simply wouldn't trade him if it's not an enormous haul. Roll the dice and trade him in the spring. did you know because of his poor control, Dylan Cease has never pitched more than 185 innings in a season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 5 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: You guys are funny …. Go back and read the Cease threads here. Legit ACE….top talent. Now somebody here is calling him a really nice 2 to 3 Crochet is having an awesome season …. But 24 last year and 54 the year before. He’s certainly an injury concern. Plus there is zero chance he reproduces the 1st half as he will need to be extremely limited or shutdown at some point. So a buyer has to be looking for future value as opposed to what he’s likely to give in the second half. I’m sure Getz wants to sell High but rival GMs looking for help at the deadline will consider his health and availability when considering his value. Sure, but all it takes is one GM who is willing to take on some risk for what might be the best SP in baseball over the next handful of seasons. That won’t be Elias most likely, but there will be a GM out there who is more determined to win championships who will want Crochet. As much as you want him to come on a discount, that’s not how the SP market works this time of year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Have you noticed how few impact bats that can field at GG level are out there right now? 24:$12.5M, 25:$15M, 26:$20M club option ($2M buyout). 27:$20M club option ($2M buyout) Benintendi gets 75% of that…lol. The going price for superstars is $25 million and up. I saw a rumor that said the Sox would trade Robert on the cheap if someone would pick up Benintendi and his contract. I doubt that the Orioles. Benintendi has literally fallen off a cliff. . I’m a fan and am shocked he’d fallen off so much. But, I don’t see the Orioles taking on that salary …. So BTW… Last time I looked Robert was hitting around .230 with an OBP around .315. Plus he obviously has injury concerns. I don’t think he’s a superstar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 8 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: You guys are funny …. Go back and read the Cease threads here. Legit ACE….top talent. Now somebody here is calling him a really nice 2 to 3 Crochet is having an awesome season …. But 24 last year and 54 the year before. He’s certainly an injury concern. Plus there is zero chance he reproduces the 1st half as he will need to be extremely limited or shutdown at some point. So a buyer has to be looking for future value as opposed to what he’s likely to give in the second half. I’m sure Getz wants to sell High but rival GMs looking for help at the deadline will consider his health and availability when considering his value. Look at Ray Run has actually been consistent on not being as high on Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 12 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Anyways, Thorpe sure appears to be a guy that’s going to give 150+ innings a season with an ERA in the upper 3s. What? It’s been 5 starts, 4 of which have come against some of the league’s worst offenses. Don’t get me wrong, Thorpe has looked solid. It’s encouraging. But let’s give the kid some time before we pencil in his stats for the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 13 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: You guys are funny …. Go back and read the Cease threads here. Legit ACE….top talent. Now somebody here is calling him a really nice 2 to 3 Crochet is having an awesome season …. But 24 last year and 54 the year before. He’s certainly an injury concern. Plus there is zero chance he reproduces the 1st half as he will need to be extremely limited or shutdown at some point. So a buyer has to be looking for future value as opposed to what he’s likely to give in the second half. I’m sure Getz wants to sell High but rival GMs looking for help at the deadline will consider his health and availability when considering his value. Well well, the Baltimore scum hath return 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 12 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: I saw a rumor that said the Sox would trade Robert on the cheap if someone would pick up Benintendi and his contract. I doubt that the Orioles. Benintendi has literally fallen off a cliff. . I’m a fan and am shocked he’d fallen off so much. But, I don’t see the Orioles taking on that salary …. So BTW… Last time I looked Robert was hitting around .230 with an OBP around .315. Plus he obviously has injury concerns. I don’t think he’s a superstar. His wRC+ of 127 would be the second highest amongst qualified CFers. You may not like his BA or OBP, but the dude can slug and is a very productive hitter. And when healthy (and giving his all), he’s an excellent CF defensively. Not sure how that isn’t a superstar, but I didn’t expect him to be a guy you’d pay up for anyways. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.