Chicago White Sox Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 19 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I never said that was realistic. I don’t think Crochet is getting traded though and definitely not to the Orioles. The White Sox didn’t need a 26-year-old Joey Ortiz as a headliner. I’m glad they got the Padres package instead You don’t think he gets traded? Just because of the innings limit concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Also, Zavala is walking at an 18% clip as an 19 year in High A ball. He legit has a .449 OBP since June 1st (120 PA’s). The whole package isn’t quite there just yet, but it’s easier to become a more aggressive hitter than it is to become a more selective one. Once he learns a more balance approach, he will shoot up these rankings lists. Good OBP and no power works in CF, it doesnt work in the corners. Everything depends on his ability to stick in CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 21 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Good OBP and no power works in CF, it doesnt work in the corners. Everything depends on his ability to stick in CF He has power though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 55 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Good OBP and no power works in CF, it doesnt work in the corners. Everything depends on his ability to stick in CF I don’t think he lacks power. I think his approach is overly selective to the point he’s missing out on pitches he could actually hit and hit hard. An adjustment in his approach is needed at some point, but he’s the youngest guy in full season ball with that high of a walk rate. I have much more confidence in his offensive profile as he at least knows when not to make bad swing decisions vs. someone like Wilfred Veras who lacks plate discipline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: You don’t think he gets traded? Just because of the innings limit concern? I just don’t think anyone meets the asking price 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I just don’t think anyone meets the asking price It’s a weird situation. The Sox know he’s reaching a max output in which he may decline for this year. But so do other teams. So why would other teams pay the Sox expected price for how he has pitched so far this season? The Sox will want full boat, regardless of the expected performance decline for this season due to a potential innings limit. I could totally see Crochet not being moved due to this strange conundrum. Edited July 7 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It’s a weird situation. The Sox know he’s reaching a max output in which he may decline for this year. But so do other teams. So why would other teams pay the Sox expected price for how he has pitched so far this season? The Sox will want full boat, regardless of the expected performance decline for this season due to a potential innings limit. I could totally see Crochet not being moved due to this strange conundrum. On the other hand, they DON'T trade him and he gets hurt...they're going to get almost nothing in return for him if he's out for all of 2025 and even part of 2026. In that situation, the White Sox will lose almost all control over how he's used as Free Agency becomes his one and only concern. He would want to pitch in 2026, but probably not before the trade deadline, as he would be more concerned demonstrating to other teams he's close to 100% and has his max velocity back. Let's just say there will probably be a difference of opinion over how much he will pitch in June/July. (Of course, if he doesn't have more than let's say 80 innings pitched, that's obviously going to work against him once again.) Very complicated situation with many factors to consider, both the ball club's and Crochet/his family Another major injury would give an average shelf life of 4 1/2 more seasons remaining after a second TJS/revision. He might not get the preferred five year deal in that scenario, but it will at least be 3 and maybe 4 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 9 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I never said that was realistic. I don’t think Crochet is getting traded though and definitely not to the Orioles. The White Sox didn’t need a 26-year-old Joey Ortiz as a headliner. I’m glad they got the Padres package instead So I think the headliner was actually DL Hall which hasn’t worked out for them yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It’s a weird situation. The Sox know he’s reaching a max output in which he may decline for this year. But so do other teams. So why would other teams pay the Sox expected price for how he has pitched so far this season? The Sox will want full boat, regardless of the expected performance decline for this season due to a potential innings limit. I could totally see Crochet not being moved due to this strange conundrum. I think you could be right…. But Getz could take the best deal he can get and run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 21 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Norby + Beavers seems like a fair deal for Fedde + Kopech How would you feel about a swop of Kopech for Brebbia? What about both adding a couple DSL type prospects with upside? I proposed it over there ….. https://forum.orioleshangout.com/topic/53565-trade-proposal-fedde-kopech-for-norby-beavers/ Giving you the credit for your proposal. Edited July 7 by Rolle Tide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 After a bad outing from Povich (similar to both Thorpe and Cannon, young guys gonna have these), some guy at Fan Sided was ignorant of the second year on Fedde’s deal and suggested Fedde for Arias, a guy who is struggling with both the bat and the glove in A ball. I don’t even like contemplating fake deals with the Orioles. The whole ecosystem is ill-informed and unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Just now, Timmy U said: After a bad outing from Povich (similar to both Thorpe and Cannon, young guys gonna have these), some guy at Fan Sided was ignorant of the second year on Fedde’s deal and suggested Fedde for Arias, a guy who is struggling with both the bat and the glove in A ball. I don’t even like contemplating fake deals with the Orioles. The whole ecosystem is ill-informed and unreasonable. I wouldn’t blame you for hating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 18 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: How would you feel about a swop of Kopech for Brebbia? What about both adding a couple DSL type prospects with upside? I proposed it over there ….. https://forum.orioleshangout.com/topic/53565-trade-proposal-fedde-kopech-for-norby-beavers/ Giving you the credit for your proposal. The Fedde proposal is likely one where both fan bases are not completely happy, which means it’s fair. Norby is never going to see consistent playing time for the Os so neither guy contributes to their WS pursuit this season or next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Rolle Tide said: How would you feel about a swop of Kopech for Brebbia? What about both adding a couple DSL type prospects with upside? I proposed it over there ….. https://forum.orioleshangout.com/topic/53565-trade-proposal-fedde-kopech-for-norby-beavers/ Giving you the credit for your proposal. Depending on what level of DSL guys, something like this is a solid shell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 3 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: I think you could be right…. But Getz could take the best deal he can get and run. That makes no sense. Hes not going to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: The Fedde proposal is likely one where both fan bases are not completely happy, which means it’s fair. Norby is never going to see consistent playing time for the Os so neither guy contributes to their WS pursuit this season or next. You didn’t answer my question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: That makes no sense. Hes not going to do that. Ok … he did that with Cease IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 8 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Ok … he did that with Cease IMO Very different situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 7 minutes ago, ron883 said: Very different situations. No not really …. Your team is rebuilding. Crochet won’t be here when they are. He’s more of an injury risk than Cease. He’s been overworked based on his last 4 years of work to the point where he’s at risk of injury and will have limited availability. You need to sell before the tires fall off or hope that they don’t and sell in the offseason or next deadline. But he’s probably peak value right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 12 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: No not really …. Your team is rebuilding. Crochet won’t be here when they are. He’s more of an injury risk than Cease. He’s been overworked based on his last 4 years of work to the point where he’s at risk of injury and will have limited availability. You need to sell before the tires fall off or hope that they don’t and sell in the offseason or next deadline. But he’s probably peak value right now. Wait a minute. You're saying that Crochet will have limited availability this season based on his work load. But then you say he's probably at peak value. That makes no sense. If he gets to the off-season with no incident, why wouldn't GMs believe that he could then be ramped up to a full starter's work load next year? Please don't say he's more of an injury risk, as you have already shrugged off Baltimore's decimated rotation by saying "injuries happen", as if they're random. Again, I understand your concern in obtaining Crochet, or any premium pitcher, for that matter. Baltimore doesn't seem to be able to not grind their starters to a nub. Chris Flexen's probably more Baltimore's speed. They can pick up 3-4 of that tier, and maybe one will be there for the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 56 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Wait a minute. You're saying that Crochet will have limited availability this season based on his work load. But then you say he's probably at peak value. That makes no sense. If he gets to the off-season with no incident, why wouldn't GMs believe that he could then be ramped up to a full starter's work load next year? Please don't say he's more of an injury risk, as you have already shrugged off Baltimore's decimated rotation by saying "injuries happen", as if they're random. Again, I understand your concern in obtaining Crochet, or any premium pitcher, for that matter. Baltimore doesn't seem to be able to not grind their starters to a nub. Chris Flexen's probably more Baltimore's speed. They can pick up 3-4 of that tier, and maybe one will be there for the playoffs. So he has two plus years of control beyond this season. He’s shot his load in the first half. Even if he’s the same pitcher there is no way he’s pitching another 100 innings this year. He could easily become injured again. He’s given you guys 200 innings in 4 years …. So you can’t blame all of that on 1 TJ injury. There is a possibility he is effective the second half and is poised to go 180-200 innings next season but it’s also possible he gets injured…..we can argue how likely, he suffers another injury, I agree he could be traded in the off season. But, is it worth the risk? C’mon Dude …you obviously just want to argue. Yes injuries happen to pitchers. In fact they are up all over the league. Means has had one good season and has pretty much been injured the rest of his career. Similar to your guy! As I said, Bradish hurt his ulnar nerve in January at Driveline. How is that the Orioles fault? Bautista got hurt last summer trying to throw 120 MPH. You can see the overthrowing in the replay of the inning. it’s not my concern…. I’m not the Orioles GM. It’s in no way my decision. Nor is it your decision if/who Crochet is dealt and for what. The Orioles are one team that’s interested. So the likelihood that he’s dealt here probably isn’t that high. Getz won the Cease deal with Thorpe. That said, I don’t think he got anywhere near what he was asking for from the Orioles. It will be interesting to see his approach to this deadline with another year under his belt. I agree that he needs top value to accelerate the rebuild. Edited July 7 by Rolle Tide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 The Orioles board may not have thought Cease was an ace but many thought Luzardo was and worth selling the farm for. So I’m not sure they’re the best judge of talent either. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: No not really …. Your team is rebuilding. Crochet won’t be here when they are. He’s more of an injury risk than Cease. He’s been overworked based on his last 4 years of work to the point where he’s at risk of injury and will have limited availability. You need to sell before the tires fall off or hope that they don’t and sell in the offseason or next deadline. But he’s probably peak value right now. No he isn't. His peak value would likely be in the off-season or next deadline, when teams could be sure that he'll be available for a postseason run. There's no pressure to sell now. He could fall off like any pitcher, but he's always been pretty dominant. There's no reason to trade him now unless the Sox get blown away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, ron883 said: No he isn't. His peak value would likely be in the off-season or next deadline, when teams could be sure that he'll be available for a postseason run. There's no pressure to sell now. He could fall off like any pitcher, but he's always been pretty dominant. There's no reason to trade him now unless the Sox get blown away. Noted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: The Orioles board may not have thought Cease was an ace but many thought Luzardo was and worth selling the farm for. So I’m not sure they’re the best judge of talent either. And you guys thought Cease was an ACE and he’s the same pitcher for the Padres that he was last year with the White Sox. He’s basically a 3-4 starter in all but 1 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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