Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: How is he the same pitcher as last year? K rate up, BB rate down substantially, and his xERA is 60 points better. He is not back in 2022 form, but he’s clearly better than he was last year. I’d give his ERA a chance to normalize before making these comments. He’s still a 4 Plus ERA pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 7 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Fedde would be your #2, based on results (no, I don’t trust Suarez to maintain an ERA below 3.5 by season end). Fedde and G-Rod have very similar numbers. So one would slot in at #3. Im assuming you could make the same argument about Fedde since his track record before this year as Suarez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 5 hours ago, caulfield12 said: And how many are confident in him starting a playoff game, exactly? Burnes hasn't been the Cy Young contender version of previous years, either. Now I just want Robert on NY LAD or Philly to put the Orioles in their place, lol. They're no longer a small market team either...but the Padres of the East. Finally Sox fans are starting to like local product Wolkow over Spencer Jones. Or Dominguez. Burnes is in the top handful if the CY Young was awarded today. His K per 9 isn’t 12 per 9 but he’s pitching in front of a good defense. I’m perfectly happy with the way he’s performing. Robert is going to put the Orioles in their place? LOL ok Who cares ? Getz clearly asked for Jones and was told no. He’s not trading players to appease fans. If he is then it’s a stupid way to do business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, Rolle Tide said: Fedde and G-Rod have very similar numbers. So one would slot in at #3. Im assuming you could make the same argument about Fedde since his track record before this year as Suarez? Fedde has pitched 41 more innings than Suarez so far this year, which is considerable. Fedde also dominated and was the MVP of the KBO last year for what it’s worth. If we’re talking track records, Grayson has a career ERA higher than Cease’s and only 216 career MLB innings. Seems like a very shaky #2 imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: Burnes is in the top handful if the CY Young was awarded today. His K per 9 isn’t 12 per 9 but he’s pitching in front of a good defense. I’m perfectly happy with the way he’s performing. Robert is going to put the Orioles in their place? LOL ok Who cares ? Getz clearly asked for Jones and was told no. He’s not trading players to appease fans. If he is then it’s a stupid way to do business. The ask for Jones was more the priority in the offseason...now he's almost become overrated and falling almost universally in prospect relisting/s, just like Colson Montgomery will by Sept/Oct if he doesn't pull out of his funk...and uncertainty about his eventual defensive position NOT being SS. The best pitcher on the market THIS deadline is worth more than a 70-80 prospect with the 2 1/2 years of control. The Orioles will end up doing enough to get them to the finish line in 1st place, which means someone more like a patch for the back end of the rotation to hold everything together. You guys can have Trevor Bauer, for free, almost. Or Flexen. Someone to just kill innings and keep the offense in games at least 2/3rd's of the time, that's enough. If Flaherty is #3, the White Sox definitely will be sitting in the driver's seat with options 1 (All-Star and...) All Star snub Fedde. You can read the write-upon on him in another thread here at SoxTalk. Or maybe just spend a ton of money to eat most of Scherzer's remaining salary. Montas, Severino, etc. Although the Mets might no longer be selling all their vets right now, that works out once again in favor of the White Sox to have one less team selling. In fact, with the logjam in the NL WC race, this might be the fewest sellers (or standing pat) in recent memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Fedde has pitched 41 more innings than Suarez so far this year, which is considerable. Fedde also dominated and was the MVP of the KBO last year for what it’s worth. If we’re talking track records, Grayson has a career ERA higher than Cease’s and only 216 career MLB innings. Seems like a very shaky #2 imo. Grayson is all about STUFF and POTENTIAL right now...he's been a solid fantasy pick-up, but his reputation is bigger than his actual results at this point in his young career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Grayson is all about STUFF and POTENTIAL right now...he's been a solid fantasy pick-up, but his reputation is bigger than his actual results at this point in his young career. Agreed and since @Rolle Tideonly cares about actual results this season Grayson is more like a #3 than a strong #2 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 22 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Agreed and since @Rolle Tideonly cares about actual results this season Grayson is more like a #3 than a strong #2 this year. Mateo and Mullins are the most glaring offensive weaknesses right now on the O's roster. McCann, back-up catcher, but there are very few "above average" back-ups around the sport. Burnes' FIP is 3.36, well more than one run higher than his actual ERA. Same with Suarez, 2.48 vs. 3.55. Irvin/Kremer are/were both below average. Kimbrel with a 180 ERA plus and 2.47 FIP, versus a 2.10 ERA. There's just no way in hell I'm going to trust that guy in the actual post-season after his last 5-6 years of results. Povich has been bad, too. It's inconceivable that O's pitching without reinforcements is going to hold up at these numbers for 2 1/2 more months of the season. Edited July 8 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 4 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: He’s still a 4 Plus ERA pitcher. We going to talk about how many wins and losses he has next? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Agreed and since @Rolle Tideonly cares about actual results this season Grayson is more like a #3 than a strong #2 this year. But only for guys on other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 5 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Fedde has pitched 41 more innings than Suarez so far this year, which is considerable. Fedde also dominated and was the MVP of the KBO last year for what it’s worth. If we’re talking track records, Grayson has a career ERA higher than Cease’s and only 216 career MLB innings. Seems like a very shaky #2 imo. Naturally…. He is in his first full season in the bigs. He has plus stuff and he’s trending in the right direction. Is the KBO even Double A Equivalent? I said I’d definitely trade for him and would give up Norby and Beavers without blinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Grayson is all about STUFF and POTENTIAL right now...he's been a solid fantasy pick-up, but his reputation is bigger than his actual results at this point in his young career. Well he’s been pretty dam good outside of 2 starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: But only for guys on other teams. What does that have to do with anything. Imo if the Orioles added Fedde he would be slotted behind G-Rod. It really would only matters in the playoffs ….if Fedde continues to pitch like he did in the 1st half then they would have to make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 2 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Naturally…. He is in his first full season in the bigs. He has plus stuff and he’s trending in the right direction. Is the KBO even Double A Equivalent? I said I’d definitely trade for him and would give up Norby and Beavers without blinking. I would feel differently about Fedde if it wasn't real changes he made to achieve his new stuff. This wasn't something like he just went over seas and put up big numbers. He had actual arsenal changes, which did big things in Korea, and he has come over here and confirmed that these changes worked. I wasn't ready to fully buy in until I saw it work here, but now that it has, it definitely changes things more than if it hadn't happened somewhere else first. This isn't like showing up for spring training "in the best shape of his life". This was much more meaningful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Just now, Rolle Tide said: What does that have to do with anything. Imo if the Orioles added Fedde he would be slotted behind G-Rod. It really would only matters in the playoffs ….if Fedde continues to pitch like he did in the 1st half then they would have to make a decision. The only guys we are talking about discounts based on major league sample size for performance is Sox guys (and it is also only with the stats that apply, but not the ones that don't). But somehow no one talks about that for a guy like Holliday. Weird right. It's almost like there is more at work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Mateo and Mullins are the most glaring offensive weaknesses right now on the O's roster. McCann, back-up catcher, but there are very few "above average" back-ups around the sport. Burnes' FIP is 3.36, well more than one run higher than his actual ERA. Same with Suarez, 2.48 vs. 3.55. Irvin/Kremer are/were both below average. Kimbrel with a 180 ERA plus and 2.47 FIP, versus a 2.10 ERA. There's just no way in hell I'm going to trust that guy in the actual post-season after his last 5-6 years of results. Povich has been bad, too. It's inconceivable that O's pitching without reinforcements is going to hold up at these numbers for 2 1/2 more months of the season. Ok …so what’s your point? That the Orioles need to add at least 1 starter and 2 relievers. We agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The only guys we are talking about discounts based on major league sample size for performance is Sox guys (and it is also only with the stats that apply, but not the ones that don't). But somehow no one talks about that for a guy like Holliday. Weird right. It's almost like there is more at work here. There’s no question Holliday’s stock is down. Reminds me a bit of Moncada following his callup to the Red Sox. Obviously, still very valuable and highly touted but the untouchable mystique (like a Skenes) has worn off imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The only guys we are talking about discounts based on major league sample size for performance is Sox guys (and it is also only with the stats that apply, but not the ones that don't). But somehow no one talks about that for a guy like Holliday. Weird right. It's almost like there is more at work here. Luzardo will likely go at a discount if he’s dealt due to down performance and injuries. I’m not sure what Holliday has to do with the injuries discussion. Did he get hurt? Yes he was bad in his first cup of coffee, 34 ABs ….. But, he’s only 20 and ihas a .926 OPS in AAA. He shouldn’t have been rushed imo…. But there was pressure from his father, agent, and the media to call him up. He proved he wasn’t ready and thankfully now everybody has shut up about it. Do you think he’s less valuable due to 34 big league ABs at 20. He’s still the #1 prospect in baseball. Edited July 8 by Rolle Tide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 minute ago, Rolle Tide said: Luzardo will likely go at a discount if he’s dealt due to down performance and injuries. I’m not sure what Holliday has to due with the injuries discussion. Did he get hurt? Yes he was bad in his first cup of coffee, 34 ABs ….. But, he’s only 20 and ihas a .926 OPS in AAA. He shouldn’t have been rushed imo…. But there was pressure from his father, agent, and the media to call him up. He proved he wasn’t ready and thankfully now everybody has shut up about it. Do you think he’s less valuable due to 34 big league ABs at 20. He’s still the #1 prospect in baseball. Holliday is less valuable in a trade today than he was 6 months ago without a doubt. He’s still extremely valuable but imo no longer an untouchable like he was in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Oh, and Baseball America already dropped Holliday to their #2 prospect on their updated list after he was #1 on their preseason list (mlb pipeline hasn’t updated theirs since the preseason). Similar thing happened to Moncada after his cup of coffee in the MLB back in 2016. Apparently 20 at bats was enough of a look for the Red Sox to include him in a trade a couple months later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Oh, and Baseball America already dropped Holliday to their #2 prospect on their updated list after he was #1 on their preseason list (mlb pipeline hasn’t updated theirs since the preseason). Similar thing happened to Moncada after his cup of coffee in the MLB back in 2016. Apparently 20 at bats was enough of a look for the Red Sox to include him in a trade a couple months later. Interesting who’s #1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 13 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Interesting who’s #1? James Wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 minute ago, DirtySox said: James Wood. Correct and Skenes just graduated otherwise he’d be #1 overall and Holliday #3. Of course Holliday could be right back to #1 in the offseason if Wood also graduates but I don’t think his spot at the top is a given (unlike last offseason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 51 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: There’s no question Holliday’s stock is down. Reminds me a bit of Moncada following his callup to the Red Sox. Obviously, still very valuable and highly touted but the untouchable mystique (like a Skenes) has worn off imo. Is Holliday’s stock really down because of 34 bad at bats at age 20? The guy currently has a .926 OPS at AAA. I’m not buying that 34 bad at bats at age 20 have now made him no longer untouchable. The #2 overall prospect in the MLB is still pretty “untouchable” these days. Edited July 8 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, Rolle Tide said: Well he’s been pretty dam good outside of 2 starts. If you took away cease two worst starts this year: 3.35 ERA/2.90 FIP Pretty damn good, eh? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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