Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Can you think of any MVP caliber position players under team control for 4 years that have been dealt recently? I can't. Hypothetically let's pretend CF was a position of need for Baltimore. What would you offer? Jackson Holliday and who else? I would love to add him but I wouldn’t trade Holliday or Basallo for him. Hes an amazing talent signed to an incredible deal but the best ability is availability and he simply hasn’t been available for most of his career. Thats not something I would be willing to overlook (I don’t think Elias would either) but I think other teams would…Seattle and the Giants immediately jump to mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: It was about Cease durability. A bit confusing to follow. Cease’s durability is one of the reasons he’s at the top of my personal wish list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: If they get Bradfield as like the third piece in a BAL Cease trade I can see them moving Robert next offseason as they'll have a good in house CF replacement ready if not for 25...maybe 26. Obviously the bats do not compare at all, but Getz has a massive hard on for D and athleticism. You aren’t getting Bradfield as the third piece. I doubt the Os trade him as the second piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 Looking at the orioles depth chart its clear their GM wants all 3 of the stud prospects we need a package built around starting for them in 2025. I'm fully prepared for the rumored AJSS+ return unless the dodgers can top them. 10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: This is part of the issue. Cease isn’t a frontline starter. Hes the ace of half the league and the #2 on the other half... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Who is the second TOR guy? Grayson Rodriguez? 34 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Yep..Grayson, after he came back from the minors after the AS break, was one of the best pitchers in the AL. 13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: 1) This is part of the issue. Cease isn’t a frontline starter. He has the ceiling of one but it’s not set in stone that he is one. I'm curious what's the distinction here? If Grayson Rodriquez was on another team (EDIT: and had 2 years remaining), what would you be willing to offer for him? Edited December 27, 2023 by Nardiwashere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 1 minute ago, scotty22hotty said: Looking at the orioles depth chart its clear their GM wants all 3 of the stud prospects we need a package built around starting for them in 2025. I'm fully prepared for the rumored AJSS+ return unless the dodgers can top them. Hes the ace of half the league and the #2 on the other half... Being an ace on a staff that doesn’t have many good pitchers doesn’t make him an ace. In 2022, he was an ace. The rest of his career he has been a 2/3 type starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Nardiwashere said: I'm curious what's the distinction here? If Grayson Rodriquez was on another team, what would you be willing to offer for him? You mean a guy with his high end talent that has like 5 more years of control? A lot. Not sure what exactly but a lot more than I would trade for Cease. Kind of like asking, what would I give for Kirby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 If Elias isn’t is willing to give up more than Cowser(MAYBE) or Ortiz as the headliners than there really is no business to be discussed here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 Just now, Sports Guy said: You mean a guy with his high end talent that has like 5 more years of control? A lot. Not sure what exactly but a lot more than I would trade for Cease. Kind of like asking, what would I give for Kirby. I made an edit you must not have seen... 2 years left for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 Elias is a prospect hugging clown. I hope Baltimore never wins anything. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 1 minute ago, scotty22hotty said: Hes the ace of half the league and the #2 on the other half... Sigh. No, he wasn't. He was in 2022, but that's been the only year where this was true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rey21 said: If Elias isn’t is willing to give up more than Cowser(MAYBE) or Ortiz as the headliners than there really is no business to be discussed here No one is giving up a prospect better than Cowser. May get a similarly rated guy but not one who is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Elias is a prospect hugging clown. I hope Baltimore never wins anything. Lots of intelligence behind this post. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: I made an edit you must not have seen... 2 years left for him. Oh, I don’t know. It depends on how the first 4 years played out. If he was a definitive age with no durability concerns, I may be ok with putting a Mayo type prospect on the table for him. But Cease isn’t that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I would love to add him but I wouldn’t trade Holliday or Basallo for him. Hes an amazing talent signed to an incredible deal but the best ability is availability and he simply hasn’t been available for most of his career. Thats not something I would be willing to overlook (I don’t think Elias would either) but I think other teams would…Seattle and the Giants immediately jump to mind. For Robert you wouldn’t trade those guys? Woof 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No one is giving up a prospect better than Cowser. May get a similarly rated guy but not one who is better. Cowser’s stock is falling from what I’ve heard 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, fathom said: For Robert you wouldn’t trade those guys? Woof No..Overlooking his durability issues would be foolish for any team. Holliday will be a 6 WAR type guy soon and Basallo has Yordan Alvarez type upside. He is an absolute beast and is doing it at ages that are incredibly young for his league. There is a fairly good chance he ends 2024 as the top prospect in the sport. There is a solid argument that Basallo has a higher ceiling than Holliday. Edited December 28, 2023 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No one is giving up a prospect better than Cowser. May get a similarly rated guy but not one who is better. I know it was 60 ABs but Cowser stunk last year in the bigs, if you’re trading a Dylan Cease and you’re seeking pitching back, your main return can’t be a positional player coming off a terrible first major league stint. We all saw what other major league GMs saw. Sox can get better than him. This isn’t me saying Cowser won’t be good but too much risk giving up a proven major league top of the rotation arm for Cowser Edited December 28, 2023 by Rey21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 I find it interesting to see differences in fanbases. When the White Sox are potential buyers in a trade, the fans usually are yelling "Get it done!" and may have a guy or two they hope isn't included. Oriole fans appear to be much different. They seem to have universally decided that their top 5 guys are untouchable. A rookie pitcher has a great second half and he's a frontline starter but a guy finishes 2nd in Cy Young a year ago and he's not. I also can't picture many Sox fans thinking their version of Basallo is more valuable than one of the best position players in the league. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 minute ago, fathom said: Cowser’s stock is falling from what I’ve heard It’s not falling. Anyone who says that is putting too much weight on his ML time which was in a SSS. If anyone wants to trade for him with the thought that his value is down, they should just move on to a new player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, Timmy U said: If a volume deal was going to get this done, it would have been done at the deadline. Sox need at least one impact player in a Cease deal. The O’s don’t want to be a counterparty in a deal like that. I simply think these two teams are not a match After all of the chatter last deadline and being two months into the offseason, I'm resigning myself to that too. As much as we've been dreaming on getting ahold of a few of Baltimore's stud prospects, I don't think the O's are willing to meet the asking price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rey21 said: I know it was 60 ABs but Cowser stunk last year in the bigs, if you’re trading a Dylan Cease and you’re seeking pitching back, your main return can’t be a positional player coming off a terrible first major league stint. We all saw what other major league GMs saw. Sox can get better than him. This isn’t me saying Cowser won’t be good but too much risk giving up a proven major league top of the rotation arm for a complete unknown (as ALL prospects are) If the desire is to get a pitcher to headline the deal, which is a mistake imo, they aren’t dealing with the Os anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: I find it interesting to see differences in fanbases. When the White Sox are potential buyers in a trade, the fans usually are yelling "Get it done!" and may have a guy or two they hope isn't included. Oriole fans appear to be much different. They seem to have universally decided that their top 5 guys are untouchable. A rookie pitcher has a great second half and he's a frontline starter but a guy finishes 2nd in Cy Young a year ago and he's not. I also can't picture many Sox fans thinking their version of Basallo is more valuable than one of the best position players in the league. Zero Os fans have their top 5 guys as untouchable. Cease was a frontline guy one year of his career. You seem to think his value should be that right now and that’s just not true. If you guys were looking to trade for Cease with all his red flags and issues, no one here would be advocating to trade top 25 prospects for him. All of that said, the WS have generally showed more of a willingness to spend money than our POS owner has, so that always factors into things. Edited December 28, 2023 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: It’s not falling. Anyone who says that is putting too much weight on his ML time which was in a SSS. If anyone wants to trade for him with the thought that his value is down, they should just move on to a new player. Not sure how you can say that struggling in the majors doesn’t impact a player’s value. So if Cowser hit 10 homeruns in his first 77 MLB plate appearances, his value wouldn’t have jumped up more? Of course it would. Just like the inverse is true. Edited December 28, 2023 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Not sure how you can say that struggling in the majors doesn’t impact a player’s value. So if Cowser hit 10 homeruns in his first 77 MLB plate appearances, his value wouldn’t have jumped up more? It’s such a SSS and some of those poor numbers had some bad luck in them. He’s still a high end prospect that will be top 35-40 by almost everyone who does the rankings. Law has never really liked him. He was one of the exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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