Cease To Padres per Passan

[Capn12]

Lots of answers potentially out there, to fix the second base issue the White Sox have.

Nick Madrigal isn't one of those answers.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Springfield Soxfan said:

Not in the 2020 playoffs against Oakland!!

I was referring to Nicky Lopez (when say our little Nicky can field his position), not Madrigal. 

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

When you say Madrigal, please tell me you don’t mean Nick?

He means, get Pete Crow-Armstrong, then perform an a cappella piece with many voices. 

[Timmy U]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

@Timmy U - Random question for you, but what are your thoughts on Jacob Gonzalez?  I know generally speaking he’s been viewed as a disappointment since being selected, but what is the main driver of that?  Is it his unorthodox swing not flashing much power potential post draft?  The below average speed and 2B/3B risk were always there from what I can tell.  Given that Jacob’s plate discipline appears to be plus, it seems he should have a pretty high floor unless the power is non existent or there’s a massive hole in his swing I’m not aware of.

The reason I ask is because of a potential Cease trade with the Orioles could obviously involve a middle infielder like Ortiz or Norby.  If we feel like Gonzalez is a high floor guy, does it even make sense having the second piece of a trade be someone like Ortiz?  I get we’re talking about a prospect with a plus glove in Ortiz and he’d allow us a lot more flexibility with our infield alignment, but I do hate that he turns 26 next year and worry he just ends up being an all glove  SS who you are immediately looking to replace.

I have watched 40+ AB’s from Gonzalez since he signed. I would be shocked if he hits. At all. The swing is really really unorthodox. Now, I get it, he was concentrating on hitting the ball to left after being a dead pull hitter in college and he cannot hit like that. Almost everything to the opposite field was a blooper/weak pop up.  He has great strike zone awareness, so maybe he goes back to being a dead pull hitter and contributes that way. Defensively, he’s a lot like Montgomery: smooth, makes the right play, not awesome range, and sometimes his internal clock is too slow.  If he hits, it’s playable. I am just not confident he’s gonna hit.

[SoCalChiSox]

2 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I have watched 40+ AB’s from Gonzalez since he signed. I would be shocked if he hits. At all. The swing is really really unorthodox. Now, I get it, he was concentrating on hitting the ball to left after being a dead pull hitter in college and he cannot hit like that. Almost everything to the opposite field was a blooper/weak pop up.  He has great strike zone awareness, so maybe he goes back to being a dead pull hitter and contributes that way. Defensively, he’s a lot like Montgomery: smooth, makes the right play, not awesome range, and sometimes his internal clock is too slow.  If he hits, it’s playable. I am just not confident he’s gonna hit.

Lulz at the Sox drafting someone with 55 hit and it turning out to be 20.

This is the second time this has happened recently in Round 1.

[Nardiwashere]

The more I think about it, the less I like Baltimore's guys who are rumored to be available. 

If the best piece coming back is Cowser, what's his ceiling?  A poor man's Nick Markakis who struggled when they brought him up?  If its Kjerstad, it sounds like another potential 1b/DH type.   ehhh. 

The second pieces would be Ortiz, a 26 year old glove first infielder who has below avg speed... or Norby, a 2b who apparently can't play 2b?

If I'm doing that deal, I'd have to really like the 3rd/4th players.

What team would have the most upside to give us?  

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Capn12 said:

Lots of answers potentially out there, to fix the second base issue the White Sox have.

Nick Madrigal isn't one of those answers.

I clicked on this thread and this was the first post I saw. And now I’m terrified to see what it was in response to ??. 

[chitownsportsfan]

13 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Lulz at the Sox drafting someone with 55 hit and it turning out to be 20.

This is the second time this has happened recently in Round 1.

Drafting and scouting is obviously incredibly hard but if you're going to draft players that are gonna rely on one really loud tool you sure as s%*# better be right more often than not. 

Hindsight, but that's why the Colson pick was so good. He has a foundation of tools, not just the traditional ones, but also strike zone management and overall athletic profile.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

I clicked on this thread and this was the first post I saw. And now I’m terrified to see what it was in response to ??. 

I love that there is now a paper bag emoji 

[ChiSox59]

Cowser/Kjerstad + Ortiz + Povich/Beavers should be the minimum price the Sox are willing to accept.  Or the O's can enjoy wasting the cheap control of their core just like the Sox did! 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Capn12 said:

Lots of answers potentially out there, to fix the second base issue the White Sox have.

Nick Madrigal isn't one of those answers.

Nick Madrigal isn’t the answer to any question.

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I love that there is now a paper bag emoji 

Hahaha hell yes!

And having scrolled through the last page, it was what I suspected and it’s as bad as I thought. The Sox already have plenty of atrocious middle infield fodder, but his return of the prodigal son fever dream will never die. 

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Nick Madrigal isn’t the answer to any question.

Except as a trivia question regarding the panoply of first round suck drafted by our White Sox. 

[Rey21]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Cowser/Kjerstad + Ortiz + Povich/Beavers should be the minimum price the Sox are willing to accept.  Or the O's can enjoy wasting the cheap control of their core just like the Sox did! 

Kjerstad+Ortiz/Norby+Povich nothing less.

I don’t trust Cowser to hit velocity, Kjerstad seems to handle major league pitching much better.

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

He means, get Pete Crow-Armstrong, then perform an a cappella piece with many voices. 

What I mean is I prefer major league ready players rather than a year or two away.  Also, quantity is not as important as quality.

[Chicago White Sox]

@Sports Guy / @Frobby - Can you guys explain Povich to me?  OH basically considers him an untouchable but his results in the upper minors have been pretty bad with incredibly high BB rates.  Your guy Tony only has him as a 45 FV prospect as well and outside of your top 10 (BA also has him outside the top 10).  I guess I don’t get why this dude would hold up a Cease trade outside of you guys needing general pitching depth.  What am I missing here?

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

What I mean is I prefer major league ready players rather than a year or two away.  Also, quantity is not as important as quality.

I'm funnin' ya. Madrigal should be able to be gotten for ... I don't know. Jonathan Stiever. Or even a PTBNL. I just think that any vets gum up the return, unless it's "taking money back". 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, poppysox said:

What I mean is I prefer major league ready players rather than a year or two away.  Also, quantity is not as important as quality.

But how does Nick Madrigal represent quality?  He’s like a 15% to 20% below major league average bat.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

@Sports Guy / @Frobby - Can you guys explain Povich to me?  OH basically considers him an untouchable but his results in the upper minors have been pretty bad with incredibly high BB rates.  Your guy Tony only has him as a 45 FV prospect as well and outside of your top 10 (BA also has him outside the top 10).  I guess I don’t get why this dude would hold up a Cease trade outside of you guys needing general pitching depth.  What am I missing here?

Prospect hogging. 

[Timmy U]

11 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

Kjerstad+Ortiz/Norby+Povich nothing less.

I don’t trust Cowser to hit velocity, Kjerstad seems to handle major league pitching much better.

Cowser’s problems have been hitting spin, I believe, not velocity. And that does concern me. As we’ve witnessed with Vaughn, if you cannot hit spin, you’ll see plenty of it.

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

Kjerstad+Ortiz/Norby+Povich nothing less.

I don’t trust Cowser to hit velocity, Kjerstad seems to handle major league pitching much better.

Pass on Norby.  Just not a profile that makes sense for us.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Timmy U said:

Cowser’s problems have been hitting spin, I believe, not velocity. And that does concern me. As we’ve witnessed with Vaughn, if you cannot hit spin, you’ll see plenty of it.

This is from the prospect guru over at Orioles Hangout:

Quote

Unfortunately, Cowser struggled with velocity and major league pitchers went right at him and once they found him cheating, they fooled him with offspeed pitches. He hit just .071 off fastballs and reportedly struggled with velocity in the minors as well. The hope is it's not a bat speed issue, just that he has an overly passive approach as he works counts and gets behind too often in counts, especially at the major league level where you have to prove you can hurt them with some pop.

 

[ChiSoxFanMike]

I’ve always preferred Kjerstad to Cowser. I think the bat plays better even though he’s less athletic. But Getz probably feels the opposite because he is seemingly trying to prioritize defense and over correct what Hahn left him with.

[fathom]

13 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Cowser’s problems have been hitting spin, I believe, not velocity. And that does concern me. As we’ve witnessed with Vaughn, if you cannot hit spin, you’ll see plenty of it.

Also concerns about his ability to hit LHP

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Also concerns about his ability to hit LHP

I read a scouting report that said he corrected that issue.