Frobby Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Oh, so you found one guy on the entire internet, and strangely enough, he supports your view. That's great. Well, if the Orioles are so elite at drafting and developing players, it's weird they would even waste their time on a trade. It was literally the first article I saw. And it doesn’t really support “my view,” since I said from my very first post here that I’d be willing to give up Kjerstad/Cowser and Ortiz (and maybe an additional piece, if pressed by circumstances). So really we are just quibbling about what “extra” the Sox would get. I was just interested in what were the “so many” articles you were talking about. And I still don’t know. What’s the package Sports Guy and James Fox discussed? I can’t look it up because I’m not a Twitter/X member. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 7 hours ago, Snopek said: Well now that it’s too quiet in here, I think we need some Red Sox board posters to exchange stubborn and definitive statements with. There are more subjective arguments to be had! I propose a 3 for 2 trade, where we receive three Red Sox posters for two Orioles posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, Frobby said: I was just interested in what were the “so many” articles you were talking about. And I still don’t know. When I'm buzzing around other team blogs, and such, I'm not keeping a log of my internet usage. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 (edited) Choose your fighter! Player A: 3.8 fWAR 3.82 xERA 2nd in Stuff+ ~31% slider usage 36.4% Whiff % on slider 27th percentile HH % 4th in AL Cy Young votes Best season in entire career Guaranteed TOR starter Player B: 3.7 fWAR 4.07 xERA 5th in Stuff+ ~39% slider usage 43.3% Whiff % on slider 32nd percentile HH % No Cy Young votes received Worst season since 2020 Javy Vasquez esque starter Edited December 31, 2023 by Chicago White Sox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, Frobby said: It was literally the first article I saw. And it doesn’t really support “my view,” since I said from my very first post here that I’d be willing to give up Kjerstad/Cowser and Ortiz (and maybe an additional piece, if pressed by circumstances). So really we are just quibbling about what “extra” the Sox would get. I was just interested in what were the “so many” articles you were talking about. And I still don’t know. What’s the package Sports Guy and James Fox discussed? I can’t look it up because I’m not a Twitter/X member. I haven’t been reading this whole thread (who could?)…but who agreed on Ortiz as the #2 piece? Big no thank you from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, Frobby said: What’s the package Sports Guy and James Fox discussed? It's on this very thread. I'm sorry, not to be rude, but I'm not trying to reopen an Orioles/Cease trade discussion. I was commenting on a particular strain of negativity, about Dylan Cease, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Choose your fighter! Player A: 3.8 fWAR 3.82 xERA 2nd in Stuff+ ~31% slider usage 36.4% Whiff % on slider 27th percentile HH % 4th in AL Cy Young votes Best season in entire career Guaranteed TOR starter Player B: 3.7 fWAR 4.07 xERA 5th in Stuff+ ~39% slider usage 43.3% Whiff % on slider 32nd percentile HH % No Cy Young votes received Worst season since 2020 Javy Vasquez esque starter Bums, both of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 1 hour ago, fathom said: Giolito got that for two months Don’t let balta and the Orioles posters undervalue Cease. Amazing how we actually have recent proof that a worse pitcher with less control brought back more and yet some posters are still clueless to reality. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Maybe one back end T100, an interesting guy and a couple lotto ticket players. So, like Ortiz would be the best player coming back from the Orioles. A back end top 100 guy is extremely unlikely to be as good as Cease is, and the other pieces are almost guaranteed to not be good or even MLB players. How does this make sense for a workhorse averaging 4 fWAR over the past 3 seasons? A pitcher with that track record is so useful to a team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: They're getting a price for 2023 Cease not 2022 Cease. Nobody is paying 2022 prices because he had his worst year since he was a rookie instead of backing up his 2022 with another CY caliber season. I mean really, he's only had one good year. His 2021 and 2023 are Javy Vazquez esque. Now explain why a team gave up as much as they did for Giolito, in the midst of a mediocre season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 the sad part is If the O's (2nd lowest payroll in MLB) signed Snell or Montgomery and traded for Cease they'd be pennant favs for the next 2 years. Instead we're arguing about Cease's value for players that are blocked until 2026 ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Now explain why a team gave up as much as they did for Giolito, in the midst of a mediocre season? Because supply and demand are very different at the trade deadline. LAA was clearly motivated by trying to make a wild card with Ohtani. They had a 2 month ticking clock and very few options. There are no ticking clocks right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 hours ago, Frobby said: I did, and found a Sports Illustrated piece saying the White Sox should “jump at” a package of Joey Ortiz, Kyle Stowers, Justin Armbruester, Trace Bright, and Jud Fabian. https://www.si.com/mlb/orioles/news/could-this-orioles-trade-package-land-white-sox-ace-cease-brad9 Lol nice try. It's an "Inside the Orioles" writer not a national SI guy....sounds like Elias is doing a fine job greasing local writers and converting them into basically state media. Unscrupulous but impressive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said: I haven’t been reading this whole thread (who could?)…but who agreed on Ortiz as the #2 piece? Big no thank you from me. Who do you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Because supply and demand are very different at the trade deadline. LAA was clearly motivated by trying to make a wild card with Ohtani. They had a 2 month ticking clock and very few options. There are no ticking clocks right now. That is why we should be fine waiting until the deadline. He if healthy will be worth the most 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 38 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Lol nice try. It's an "Inside the Orioles" writer not a national SI guy....sounds like Elias is doing a fine job greasing local writers and converting them into basically state media. Unscrupulous but impressive. I’ve never heard of the guy. It was on the Sports Illustrated website so I assumed it was somewhat credible. I follow the Orioles-related media very closely and this is not a guy I’m familiar with at all. It was the very first article that came up when I googled Dylan Cease/trade/Orioles. Try it yourself and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 hours ago, ron883 said: A back end top 100 guy is extremely unlikely to be as good as Cease is, and the other pieces are almost guaranteed to not be good or even MLB players. This is what I'm saying. We are being gaslit into believing this is the best we can get. I'd rather hang on to Cease if we can't get any actual TOP prospects. MAYO OR BUST. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, Southwest Sider said: This is what I'm saying. We are being gaslit into believing this is the best we can get. I'd rather hang on to Cease if we can't get any actual TOP prospects. MAYO OR BUST. I’m very confident that a righty corner infielder will not be the headliner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Now explain why a team gave up as much as they did for Giolito, in the midst of a mediocre season? Ohtani lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 37 minutes ago, Southwest Sider said: This is what I'm saying. We are being gaslit into believing this is the best we can get. I'd rather hang on to Cease if we can't get any actual TOP prospects. MAYO OR BUST. A trade for a pitcher like Cease should HURT the Orioles to trade for. Any team can trade away 10 Basabes or Diaz's...but you have to nail the headliner and then decide quantity vs. deeper quality for the second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Frobby said: I’ve never heard of the guy. It was on the Sports Illustrated website so I assumed it was somewhat credible. I follow the Orioles-related media very closely and this is not a guy I’m familiar with at all. It was the very first article that came up when I googled Dylan Cease/trade/Orioles. Try it yourself and see. Technically, I've been published on the SI website (out of SouthSideSox.com). And I will say that the accomplishment holds little credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 11 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Technically, I've been published on the SI website (out of SouthSideSox.com). And I will say that the accomplishment holds little credibility. So has Soxtalk.com, for reference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Choose your fighter! Player A: 3.8 fWAR 3.82 xERA 2nd in Stuff+ ~31% slider usage 36.4% Whiff % on slider 27th percentile HH % 4th in AL Cy Young votes Best season in entire career Guaranteed TOR starter Player B: 3.7 fWAR 4.07 xERA 5th in Stuff+ ~39% slider usage 43.3% Whiff % on slider 32nd percentile HH % No Cy Young votes received Worst season since 2020 Javy Vasquez esque starter Player A is peak Sandy Koufax and Player B is Chris Flexen minus his 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 10 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Yeah, 2 years isn't controllable. It's a rental. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 11 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Yeah, 2 years isn't controllable. It's a rental. 2 years IS controllable. A team could immediately flip the player, trade the player at the upcoming season’s trade deadline, trade the player during the next year’s offseason, or trade the player at the next year’s trade deadline. That’s 4 total chances to move a player, which is definitely “controllable”. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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