Chicago White Sox Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 6 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Yankees. 3 minutes ago, Rey21 said: Yankees 100% How do you guys feel about Dominguez vs. Kjerstad specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I mean, this is largely irrelevant to me. Teams do win when they have a lot of poor money spent but the less dumb money on your books, the better. More and more teams are wising up but there are still a lot of dumb teams out there in terms of how they spend money. Is it dumb if they win championships though? Yes, I’m looking at organizations like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Braves, and Giants. Seems to work pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Alright, which offer would people prefer: NYY: Dominguez, Hampton, Lombard BAL: Kjerstad, Ortiz, Povich Yankees easily of these two. If that’s being offered for Cease, Getz better say yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Sports Guy said: I mean I guess but you guys need to hit with this trade and, if/when you trade Robert. There is nothing else. Unfortunately this is irrefutable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How do you guys feel about Dominguez vs. Kjerstad specifically? Dominguez 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 For reference, Fangraphs has released their updated Yankees top prospect list for 2024. Below is their top 10 and how it compares to BA’s: Spencer Jones, CF (55 FV) (BA #2) Austin Wells, C (50 FV) (BA #6) Jason Dominguez, CF (50 FV) (BA #1) Roderick Arias, SS (50 FV) (BA #5) Chase Hampton, RHP (50 FV) (BA #4) Will Warren, RHP (50 FV) (BA #10) George Lombard, SS (45+ FV) (BA #9) Henry Lalane, LHP (45 FV) (BA #8) Brando Mayea, CF (45 FV) (unranked) Jorbit Vivas, 2B (45 FV) (unranked) Not radically different outside of Everson Pereira who is 3rd on BA’s latest top 10 but 17th on Longenhagen’s list. The grades on him vary dramatically with the hit tool being the discrepancy at a 45 vs. 30. While I normally lean towards BA when it comes to big variances like this, it’s hard to ignore the atrocious K rates Pereira has put up throughout his minor league career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I wonder if Getz prefers Jones over Dominguez because the latter isn't going to even play until mid-season due to his injury and is already accruing service time during non competitive White Sox years. At least with Jones he will still be in the minors for most of the next two seasons when we're non competitive and his clock won't start till later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, SoCalChiSox said: I wonder if Getz prefers Jones over Dominguez because the latter isn't going to even play until mid-season due to his injury and is already accruing service time during non competitive White Sox years. At least with Jones he will still be in the minors for most of the next two seasons when we're non competitive and his clock won't start till later. Yea, that’s a really good point. I prefer Domínguez over Jones as a player but with those other considerations in mind Jones probably has more value to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Is it dumb if they win championships though? Yes, I’m looking at organizations like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Braves, and Giants. Seems to work pretty well. The Braves are a bad example here. The Yankees have 1 title since they started buying more than developing. The Giants won on the back of a lot of developed guys. Dodgers have one title and it’s debatable how real that title even is. Boston won a lot but had a lot of guys they developed too. But it doesn’t change the point. I’ll use the Os as an example. Players like Ryan Mountcastle and Dean Kremer are good players. They start/get lots of at bats for almost any team in baseball. But I have no interest paying either 6+M a year. We should be able to develop that production for a fraction of the cost. Let someone else pay that money. I’m very much a stars and scrubs guy. That’s the best way to build a roster. Edited January 4 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: I wonder if Getz prefers Jones over Dominguez because the latter isn't going to even play until mid-season due to his injury and is already accruing service time during non competitive White Sox years. At least with Jones he will still be in the minors for most of the next two seasons when we're non competitive and his clock won't start till later. I think Getz will want two pieces that can help this year…maybe not by OD but before the end of the season. As much as I hate to place much faith in Jerry, I don’t think he’s going to let us truly rebuild. That means getting a couple major league pieces for Cease and augmenting those and our other prospects / core players with some B & C tier free agents next off-season. Edited January 4 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How do you guys feel about Dominguez vs. Kjerstad specifically? I prefer Dominguez because he’s younger, more athletic, and a switch hitter. His injury puts a wrinkle into things, although that’s probably the only reason why he might even be available in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How do you guys feel about Dominguez vs. Kjerstad specifically? I think Dominguez has a higher ceiling as an all around player and a lower floor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: The Braves are a bad example here. The Yankees have 1 title since they started buying more than developing. The Giants won on the back of a lot of developed guys. Dodgers have one title and it’s debatable how real that title even is. Boston won a lot but had a lot of guys they developed too. But it doesn’t change the point. I’ll use the Os as an example. Players like Ryan Mountcastle and Dean Kremer are good players. They start/get lots of at bats for almost any team in baseball. But I have no interest paying either 6+M a year. We should be able to develop that production for a fraction of the cost. Let someone else pay that money. How are the Braves a bad example? What young players in arb years 2 and 3 are they trading off the last few years? They’ve been a top 10 payroll since 2021 too. That doesn’t look anything like the model you described earlier that the Orioles are apparently following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think Getz will want two pieces that can help this year…maybe not by OD but before the end of the season. As much as I hate to place much faith in Jerry, I don’t think he’s going to let us truly rebuild. That means getting a couple major league pieces for Cease and augmenting those and our other prospects / core players with some B & C tier free agents next off-season. Well if we got Jones/Dominguez, Hampton and Warren, both pitchers will contribute this year regardless of the situation with the savage OFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How are the Braves a bad example? What young players in arb years 2 and 3 are they trading off the last few years? They’ve been a top 10 payroll since 2021 too. That doesn’t look anything like the model you described earlier that the Orioles are apparently following. The Braves don’t usually spend wildly in free agency. They keep their own, make trades, etc…same thing with Houston. Trading guys that aren’t worth the money they are being paid is just smart. Teams don’t do it out of fear or because they don’t have the young guys to bring up but that is their poor development. The Rays don’t have that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: How are the Braves a bad example? What young players in arb years 2 and 3 are they trading off the last few years? They’ve been a top 10 payroll since 2021 too. That doesn’t look anything like the model you described earlier that the Orioles are apparently following. No. The Orioles are following closer to Houston model before their trades. Houston did have 2 big draft busts though and took longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: The Braves don’t usually spend wildly in free agency. They keep their own, make trades, etc…same thing with Houston. Trading guys that aren’t worth the money they are being paid is just smart. Teams don’t do it out of fear or because they don’t have the young guys to bring up but that is their poor development. The Rays don’t have that issue. Those are two very different things. The Astros/Braves model is very different from the rays model. The first has pushed payrolls into the top 10/even top 5 at times and won championships while the latter hasn’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: No. The Orioles are following closer to Houston model before their trades. Houston did have 2 big draft busts though and took longer. Oh they are? Are the Orioles willing to run a top 10 payroll in a few years? That means sporting a payroll of $200M+. Because that’s what the Astros model looks like after the first few years of competitiveness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Those are two very different things. The Astros/Braves model is very different from the rays model. The first has pushed payrolls into the top 10/even top 5 at times and won championships while the latter hasn’t. The Rays biggest issue isn’t trading away guys they should have traded away…it’s the injuries they have endured, especially the last few years. They have 2 WS appearances and have been to the playoffs countless times. Amazing org that does many things extremely well. And yes, those teams spend more money but the thought process behind roster construction is fairly similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Oh they are? Are the Orioles willing to run a top 10 payroll in a few years? That means sporting a payroll of $200M+. Because that’s what the Astros model looks like after the first few years of competitiveness. They won’t spend that much but they don’t need to. But the biggest FA deal the Astros have given out during this run is 3/60 to Abreu. They will keep their own and make trades with guys who have bigger contracts but they don’t spend wildly in FA. It’s a largely home grown roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: They won’t spend that much but they don’t need to. But the biggest FA deal the Astros have given out during this run is 3/60 to Abreu. They will keep their own and make trades with guys who have bigger contracts but they don’t spend wildly in FA. It’s a largely home grown roster. They won’t need to? What do you think it’s going to cost to extend those home grown guys Henderson, Rustchman, Holliday, etc?? Or are you going to trade them in arb years 2 and 3 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Oh they are? Are the Orioles willing to run a top 10 payroll in a few years? That means sporting a payroll of $200M+. Because that’s what the Astros model looks like after the first few years of competitiveness. They started to trade some of their prospects for known talents, but signed their own mostly. Keep in mind that the Orioles spent money in the past. Of course, there is no guarantee that they will do so in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: They won’t need to? What do you think it’s going to cost to extend those home grown guys Henderson, Rustchman, Holliday, etc?? Or are you going to trade them in arb years 2 and 3 lol Well I’m one of the few Os fans that wouldn’t extend Adley. I would extend Gunnar and Holliday today…but I doubt they do and they lose them but those guys you can pay…because you aren’t replacing elite production. For whatever reason, you aren’t following my clear point and we are talking in circles, so you be happy to pay 8M for a 1.5 WAR player and I will be happy to trade that guy and pay 750k for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Ok guys, some offers: LAD: Cartaya, Frasso, Ronan Kopp, Hyun-Seok Jang NYY: Jones, Lombard, Henry Lalane, Carlos Lagrange BAL: Kjerstad, Mayo, Justin Armbruester, Jackson Baumeister AZ: Druw Jones, Ivan Melendez, Caden Grice, BlakeWalston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Snowy Demon said: They started to trade some of their prospects for known talents, but signed their own mostly. Keep in mind that the Orioles spent money in the past. Of course, there is no guarantee that they will do so in the future. I don’t care where the players came from. Bottom line is the Astros spent serious money after their first few years of competitiveness. If the Orioles aren’t willing to spend $200M+ starting in 3 or 4 years, good luck with following that Astros model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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