SoCalChiSox Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Couldn’t two things be possible — either Getz is asking for too much or other teams aren’t offering enough? I mean, the Yankees supposedly wouldn’t even include Spencer Jones (#73 overall) in a trade for Cease, when they already have Jasson Dominguez. Is Jones really too high of an ask as the frontlining prospect in a trade for Cease? I don’t think so. I agree. Jones, Hampton, Lalane/Vivas and a lotto ticket. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Nobody in a million years would have thought Adam Eaton would net Giolito, Lopez AND Dunning based off of one really successful season accompanied with a position change to RF from center and massive jump in assists. What would that equivalent be from the Orioles’ system today? It only takes ONE GM out of 28 to crack. One. And Getz has a lot more job security than virtually EVERY GM in baseball due to JR. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty22hotty Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: When discussing this, most of you are only looking as the best case scenario. None of you are saying, maybe Getz is just asking for too much and that he needs to adjust to avoid any potential longer term issues. I'd rather enjoy watching at least 25 Sox games this year with Cease then settling on players that will make little impact over 6 years ?♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Let’s take this improved defensive team out for a spin and see what happens. However, odds are at least 2-3 and even 3-5 critical starters will get injured in spring training, when teams are much more desperate than mid January to make moves. And Dylan Cease is one of the most disciplined pitchers in baseball in terms of his mental and physical workout routines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 14 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Couldn’t two things be possible — either Getz is asking for too much or other teams aren’t offering enough? I mean, the Yankees supposedly wouldn’t even include Spencer Jones (#73 overall) in a trade for Cease, when they already have Jasson Dominguez. Is Jones really too high of an ask as the frontlining prospect in a trade for Cease? I don’t think so. First of all, i think you (and when i say you, i mean a general you, not you you) need to get the rankings stuff out of your heads. Just because MLb has him 73rd doesn’t really mean much of anything. What matters is the evaluation of the 2 teams. Now, I personally don’t see what all the hubbub is about Jones and if I were the Yankees, no way I’m letting him stop Me from getting Cease. But again, what else has to go with him? The Info out there this time of year is usually wrong or incomplete. You just don’t know. I get it, we can only discuss what we are hearing and I don’t fault you or anyone for that but it is an important piece here. But to answer your question, no it’s not too much of an ask but if they are also asking for 2-3 other highly rated guys, maybe it is too much. I am in favor of moving one of Cowser or Kjerstad. However, I think it’s fair to wonder if that’s too much. If Jones is the “lead guy” from the Yankees and you care about the rankings and put value into them than no way should Kjerstad or Cowser being leading a package because they are ranked 40-60 spots higher. So, while I don’t think asking for one of those is too much, it’s fair to say that it is. Btw, to answer you first question..yes both things could be possible but my counter to that is that we have seen so many teams in on Cease and so many going after him that I would guess that they haven’t gotten a bunch of sh!t offers and that’s it. Edited January 12 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, scotty22hotty said: I'd rather enjoy watching at least 25 Sox games this year with Cease then settling on players that will make little impact over 6 years ?♂️ Especially with the writing increasingly on the wall about an accompanying Luis Robert trade as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, scotty22hotty said: I'd rather enjoy watching at least 25 Sox games this year with Cease then settling on players that will make little impact over 6 years ?♂️ And that’s fine. Maybe you just say F it..don’t rebuild because of how the draft is now. Maybe you just roll with what you have and see if you can build while trying to win. That’s fine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And in general, the returns for those guys were strong compared to their performance levels, weren't they? No doubt. Still the question is would Montgomery, Flaherty and others been worth more before the season? I think they would have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: First of all, i think you (and when i say you, i mean a general you, not you you) need to get the rankings stuff out of your heads. Just because MLb has him 73rd doesn’t really mean much of anything. What matters is the evaluation of the 2 teams. Why doesn’t this apply to Ortiz then, as all I see on your board is how valuable he is, as illustrated by his ranking? I totally agree that rankings don’t mean anything, as I previously said every GM in baseball would take Schultz over Ortiz. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: No doubt. Still the question is would Montgomery, Flaherty and others been worth more before the season? I think they would have been. Montgomery is definitely worth more now. Flaherty has/had been declining for roughly three years…and still has a relatively high value because of the lack of quality AND affordable pitching. With half the trams in baseball hamstring financially by RSN revenue generation uncertainty…Cease is worth a ton. He’s the difference between SD competing and missing out on another wild card, where anything can and dud happen in 2020 and 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, fathom said: Why doesn’t this apply to Ortiz then, as all I see on your board is how valuable he is, as illustrated by his ranking? I totally agree that rankings don’t mean anything, as I previously said every GM in baseball would take Schultz over Ortiz. Or how rankings don't matter but Kjerstad or Cowser is an overpay because they are ranked higher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Also, FWIW, I’ve flip flopped and want the Sox to hold on to Cease if the offers aren’t awesome. This team needs a miracle to improve the talent level, so Cease pitching like his amazing run during 2022 leading up to the 24 deadline might be the best way to acquire impact talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Why doesn’t this apply to Ortiz then, as all I see on your board is how valuable he is, as illustrated by his ranking? I totally agree that rankings don’t mean anything, as I previously said every GM in baseball would take Schultz over Ortiz. He is clearly more Altuve/Biggio than Madrigal according to all O’s fans… Let them persist in their delusions. Let them try to thread the needle just like the Rays do nearly every single year…moving out those vets with 2-3 years remaining on their big league contracts. Let Bieber get hurt again while costing CLE significant payroll space…or Glasnow. Or Snell following in the footsteps of Rodon/Cortes, etc. Edited January 12 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Why doesn’t this apply to Ortiz then, as all I see on your board is how valuable he is, as illustrated by his ranking? I totally agree that rankings don’t mean anything, as I previously said every GM in baseball would take Schultz over Ortiz. Ortiz is a good player..but he’s not a top 50 guy. I think he’s more in the 70-100 range because of his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, fathom said: Also, FWIW, I’ve flip flopped and want the Sox to hold on to Cease if the offers aren’t awesome. This team needs a miracle to improve the talent level, so Cease pitching like his amazing run during 2022 leading up to the 24 deadline might be the best way to acquire impact talent. Good luck. You are going to be crapping your pants every time Cease has a funky finish to his delivery coming off the mound. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, fathom said: Also, FWIW, I’ve flip flopped and want the Sox to hold on to Cease if the offers aren’t awesome. This team needs a miracle to improve the talent level, so Cease pitching like his amazing run during 2022 leading up to the 24 deadline might be the best way to acquire impact talent. Yes sir. I completely agree. We don’t need a couple guys that maybe turn into ok regular mlb players. Doesn’t move the needle. We need the potential for an impact player and the best way to acquire one with Cease is exactly what you described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: But your basis for “offers are poor” is what? You have zero idea what has been offered. It’s far more likely that Getz is asking for too much vs every single offer being poor. Look, we have 477 posts of your posts of this circular logic. Here's the deal. -The White Sox have two real assets left in Cease and Robert. Luis probably isn't going anywhere for a year, maybe two. Dylan is the only one that is starting to get into the zone. -The White Sox did this exact same thing with Jose Quintana and it paid off in spades in terms of prospect returns. One of the return you may have heard of? -This is the White Sox chance at a home run, and being able get the absolute best deal possible is the key, not when it happens. The Sox don't care about 2024 or 25, at least, no matter what the idiots reporting quotes without follow up questions say. Their actions speak louder than anything. -You keep telling us how much greater the O's system is than anywhere else, but if you skim the cream off of the top, which you seem to think is somewhere between their top 3 or 4 prospects, that greatness doesn't matter. It opens the door for other teams to be able to step in front of any offer. Those "offers" become extremely beatable. -Sure there is risk to the White Sox with Cease, but with Baltimore standing on their own dicks this winter and watching the world go by them, there is just as much risk to Baltimore losing out on a Cease and seeing regression of players they are relying on. If the Sox of 2020-21 taught us anything is that assuming an upward trajectory for literally everyone is pushing all in on a risky bet. That bet gets more dangerous if another AL East team pushes in front of Baltimore and he goes to a competitor. -You keep telling us how Elias sets his price and that is it, and that's cool. But it just means that that also leaves the door open for a more daring GM to take the player away from them. -You can't tell someone they have zero idea that the offers are poor as a criticism and then immediately say that the Sox are asking too much, when you also have no idea what Getz has exactly asked for, and what other offers look like to see how outrageous that is. If you look at historic deals and at what the cost of pitching is these days, outrageous deals of 5 years ago may well be the new norm for cost controlled pitching. Otherwise pay a guy like Snell on the open market, right? Oh wait, they won't. -At the end of the day, Baltimore's window is already going to be narrow. They have small market mentality ownership and leadership. With every door they close to talent acquisition, it makes the eye of the needle they have to thread to stick around the playoff hunt even narrower. Every time someone around them adds on, it narrows it again. 1 5 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saufley Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: And that’s fine. Maybe you just say F it..don’t rebuild because of how the draft is now. Maybe you just roll with what you have and see if you can build while trying to win. That’s fine too. How in the world did this organization go from the 2023 Championship team (expected to be) to this! This has to be the worst run organization in all of professional sports! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Nobody in a million years would have thought Adam Eaton would net Giolito, Lopez AND Dunning based off of one really successful season accompanied with a position change to RF from center and massive jump in assists. What would that equivalent be from the Orioles’ system today? It only takes ONE GM out of 28 to crack. One. And Getz has a lot more job security than virtually EVERY GM in baseball due to JR. Woah! Is someone saying Hahn made not just a good but possibly great trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 One consideration that people forget is Cease's contract. Obviously, Cease will get $8 million. Due to tax purposes, it will be $16 millions for the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers. It will be about $14 millions for the Braves. It will be $8 millions for the Orioles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, Snowy Demon said: One consideration that people forget is Cease's contract. Obviously, Cease will get $8 million. Due to tax purposes, it will be $16 millions for the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers. It will be about $14 millions for the Braves. It will be $8 millions for the Orioles. What is your point? (That sounds snarky but it isn't intended to be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, ptatc said: Woah! Is someone saying Hahn made not just a good but possibly great trade? The Eaton trade is probably the best trade Hahn ever made, and would probably go on the list of best Sox trades in history. I think most Sox fans would agree. But he also made some absolutely awful trades and was one of the worst GM’s in free agency. One great trade does not overcome his overall failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Snowy Demon said: One consideration that people forget is Cease's contract. Obviously, Cease will get $8 million. Due to tax purposes, it will be $16 millions for the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers. It will be about $14 millions for the Braves. It will be $8 millions for the Orioles. Didn’t one of you Orioles posters argue that money means nothing for literally those teams listed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Ortiz is a good player..but he’s not a top 50 guy. I think he’s more in the 70-100 range because of his age. He's fine as a second piece but not a primary one. Dude is rapidly aging and is right handed. IMO the holdup in this trade are the first and third pieces, not the second. I believe Getz is insisting on Cowser and Elias is offering Kjerstad and Getz wants Povich and Elias is saying no. Just my sense from everything I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: What is your point? (That sounds snarky but it isn't intended to be). I thought it was that the Orioles have a bigger advantage with Cease’s salary compared to other teams. But everything is relative based on each team’s payroll. It may be a huge deal to the Orioles cuz their owner won’t allow them to add much payroll but the additional tax hikes on Cease’s salary wouldn’t really matter too much to larger payroll teams like the Yankees and Dodgers. Edited January 12 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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