Bob Sacamano Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: A salary cap so dickbag owners can make even more money but people will be momentarily entertained during the off season. Brilliant! Bump up that luxury tax threshold number please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: A salary cap so dickbag owners can make even more money but people will be momentarily entertained during the off season. Brilliant! Whats more important 1. Having the league more competitive where all owners are forced into a range of salary structure. 2. The owners with the highest revenues make a greater profit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 5 minutes ago, ptatc said: Where is the documents that show they are making record profits? And how are the Padres short on liquidity to make payroll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Nothing boring about a bunch of scrap-heap guys and/or former Royals! You guys are nuts. Getz pounced at the beginning of the offseason with the Bummer trade and the DeJong signing. How many other teams acquired their star infield tandem in November? Edited January 31 by WhiteSox2023 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 56 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You guys are nuts. Getz pounced at the beginning of the offseason with the Bummer trade and the DeJong signing. How many other teams acquired their star infield tandem in November? Hell of a dp combo (defensively, and only defensively, anyway). Edited January 31 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Is it baseball season yet?!?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Maybe the O’s sale makes some funds available that would encourage some movement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 39 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You guys are nuts. Getz pounced at the beginning of the offseason with the Bummer trade and the DeJong signing. How many other teams acquired their star infield tandem in November? That Bummer trade was truly foundational! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, ptatc said: Where is the documents that show they are making record profits? The league itself has stated they are a 10 billion dollar a year business, that's NFL territory. Forbes and other reputable business/industry sites have shown the figures, feel free to look it up. And the Braves who have to open the books have shown large profit margins. Plus of course the documented fact for the 94-95 labor impasse as examined by the impartial economist from Stanford, owners were lying through their teeth and diverting funds from television revenue, concessions, parking to order to show losses. He blew up that contention and the owners have refused to open their books since. Geez...I wonder why? ? C'mon PTATC you know better then to assume the owners aren't making a ton of money. Like Ken Rosenthal wrote if they weren't, guys who are basically bench players wouldn't be given the contracts they are getting. For once in the 125 years the Sox franchise has been around let them become sharks and simply tear up the opposition on and off the playing field. Honestly I give a s%*# about competition and league balance, I want to win. I'm tired as a fan for 63 seasons now of basically being on the short end of the stick. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 46 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: The league itself has stated they are a 10 billion dollar a year business, that's NFL territory. Forbes and other reputable business/industry sites have shown the figures, feel free to look it up. And the Braves who have to open the books have shown large profit margins. Plus of course the documented fact for the 94-95 labor impasse as examined by the impartial economist from Stanford, owners were lying through their teeth and diverting funds from television revenue, concessions, parking to order to show losses. He blew up that contention and the owners have refused to open their books since. Geez...I wonder why? ? C'mon PTATC you know better then to assume the owners aren't making a ton of money. Like Ken Rosenthal wrote if they weren't, guys who are basically bench players wouldn't be given the contracts they are getting. For once in the 125 years the Sox franchise has been around let them become sharks and simply tear up the opposition on and off the playing field. Honestly I give a s%*# about competition and league balance, I want to win. I'm tired as a fan for 63 seasons now of basically being on the short end of the stick. Just because they are making money doesn't mean it's record profits. There are also record salaries and that's just the MLB players not to mention all for the other employees in the ever expanding FOs. The come on I know they are rhetoric is just that we don't know but everyone just wants to jump on it. I disagree with the sentiment of not caring about competitive balance. I know you have said you aren't a baseball fans but a white Sox fan. However I'm a baseball fan and for the good of the game, the league needs a salary cap and floor so their is a more level playing field for the league. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 53 minutes ago, ptatc said: Just because they are making money doesn't mean it's record profits. There are also record salaries and that's just the MLB players not to mention all for the other employees in the ever expanding FOs. The come on I know they are rhetoric is just that we don't know but everyone just wants to jump on it. I disagree with the sentiment of not caring about competitive balance. I know you have said you aren't a baseball fans but a white Sox fan. However I'm a baseball fan and for the good of the game, the league needs a salary cap and floor so there is a more level playing field for the league. Why do we even need to talk about salary caps? These are needless excuses for the Sox being perennial losers. The Sox have had payrolls that were more than high enough to sustain winning the pathetic AL Central many more times than they achieved in the past 20 years. It was just $181 million last year. There are teams (Rays and now Orioles) that play in a much more difficult division that have been successful over the years with less money to spend. The problem was, is, and likely forever will be that the owner puts the wrong people in charge of managing his team. He values and promotes based on loyalty rather than results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, ptatc said: Just because they are making money doesn't mean it's record profits. There are also record salaries and that's just the MLB players not to mention all for the other employees in the ever expanding FOs. The come on I know they are rhetoric is just that we don't know but everyone just wants to jump on it. I disagree with the sentiment of not caring about competitive balance. I know you have said you aren't a baseball fans but a white Sox fan. However I'm a baseball fan and for the good of the game, the league needs a salary cap and floor so their is a more level playing field for the league. Fwiw, I find it extremely interesting that we hear complaints about the lack of competitive balance in baseball, a sport with strong contract guarantees, while the NFL, a sport with very weak contract guarantees, literally has a rematch of a Super Bowl from 5 years ago and Kansas City has missed the Super Bowl once in the last 5 years. A hard cap and floor with non guaranteed contracts has left the NFL with the exact same teams on top every year, yet we don’t hear how the NFL needs stronger contract guarantees to improve its competitive balance. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, ptatc said: Just because they are making money doesn't mean it's record profits. There are also record salaries and that's just the MLB players not to mention all for the other employees in the ever expanding FOs. The come on I know they are rhetoric is just that we don't know but everyone just wants to jump on it. I disagree with the sentiment of not caring about competitive balance. I know you have said you aren't a baseball fans but a white Sox fan. However I'm a baseball fan and for the good of the game, the league needs a salary cap and floor so their is a more level playing field for the league. I respect your opinion but what you want will never, repeat, never happen. Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow...never. Teams from small markets have shown they can win, often in fact. They have smart people running the show and spend money wisely. Let's suppose what you want happened tomorrow. It still wouldn't change a damn thing with the Sox because the organization is incompetent, dysfunctional and inept. Might it help Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Oakland/Las Vegas? Maybe. But as you correctly pointed out I could care less about them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Maybe follow KCR this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 20 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: I respect your opinion but what you want will never, repeat, never happen. Not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow...never. Teams from small markets have shown they can win, often in fact. They have smart people running the show and spend money wisely. Let's suppose what you want happened tomorrow. It still wouldn't change a damn thing with the Sox because the organization is incompetent, dysfunctional and inept. Might it help Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Oakland/Las Vegas? Maybe. But as you correctly pointed out I could care less about them. I understand that it will never happen. And due to that the teams with the highest revenues will always dominate the regular season of baseball thus they will also win in the postseason more often. Fans should just get used to it. Baseball is so random in the playoffs that the small market teams will get through occasionally but it will be inconsistent. I love to go watch games regardless it would just be nice if fans of all teams could have hope at the beginning of each season on a regular basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 42 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Why do we even need to talk about salary caps? These are needless excuses for the Sox being perennial losers. The Sox have had payrolls that were more than high enough to sustain winning the pathetic AL Central many more times than they achieved in the past 20 years. It was just $181 million last year. There are teams (Rays and now Orioles) that play in a much more difficult division that have been successful over the years with less money to spend. The problem was, is, and likely forever will be that the owner puts the wrong people in charge of managing his team. He values and promotes based on loyalty rather than results. Never did I mention the White Sox. I said it was for the good of the league and the game of baseball to have all teams within a competitive sary range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: Never did I mention the White Sox. I said it was for the good of the league and the game of baseball to have all teams within a competitive sary range. Like @Lip Man 1 said, teams without massive payrolls can still win in the regular season, and have done so recently. And this is a Sox board, afterall, so I chose to make the comparison, since they have failed miserably with relatively high payrolls in recent history. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2023/04/06/mlb-team-payrolls-2023-highest-lowest-mets/11612107002/ MLB team playrolls in 2023 N.Y. Mets, $353,546,854 N.Y. Yankees, $276,999,872 San Diego, $248,995,932 Philadelphia, $243,009,439 L.A. Dodgers, $222,717,834 L.A. Angels, $212,228,096 Toronto, $ 209,938,983 Atlanta, $203,077,500 Texas, $195,869,490 Houston, $192,667,233 San Francisco, $187,932,500 Chicago Cubs, $184,219,250 Boston, $181,207,484 Chicago White Sox, $181,158,666 St. Louis, $175,637,308 Colorado, $171,108,778 Minnesota, $153,588,740 Seattle, $137,119,947 Detroit, $122,235,500 Milwaukee, $118,761,987 Arizona, $116,471,292 Washington, $ 101,190,153 Kansas City, $92,468,100 Miami, $91,700,000 Cleveland, 89,424,629 Cincinnati, $83,610,000 Pittsburgh, $73,277,500 Tampa Bay, $73,184,811 Baltimore, $60,722,300 Oakland, $56,895,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 20 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Like @Lip Man 1 said, teams without massive payrolls can still win in the regular season, and have done so recently. And this is a Sox board, afterall, so I chose to make the comparison, since they have failed miserably with relatively high payrolls in recent history. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2023/04/06/mlb-team-payrolls-2023-highest-lowest-mets/11612107002/ I do believe there are genuine problems with the way Oakland, Pittsburgh, Florida run their franchises. The fact that a handful of teams rake in money from revenue sharing and never put that back into their rosters is a bad thing. However, that isn't a driving force for competitive balance. Like you show here, the correlation between winning and spending in baseball exists but it isn't super strong. The Yankees and Mets missed the playoffs last year. The correlation between having a smart front office and making the playoffs regularly is much, much stronger. The correlation between having a dumb front office and missing the playoffs is way stronger than the correlation with spending. This is why baseball has a minor competitive balance problem, but all the time we have small franchises making the World Series. Literally 3 months ago people were complaining because the World Series was going to get such poor ratings because no big market team is there - that's Competitive Balance right there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Like @Lip Man 1 said, teams without massive payrolls can still win in the regular season, and have done so recently. And this is a Sox board, afterall, so I chose to make the comparison, since they have failed miserably with relatively high payrolls in recent history. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2023/04/06/mlb-team-payrolls-2023-highest-lowest-mets/11612107002/ MLB team playrolls in 2023 N.Y. Mets, $353,546,854 N.Y. Yankees, $276,999,872 San Diego, $248,995,932 Philadelphia, $243,009,439 L.A. Dodgers, $222,717,834 L.A. Angels, $212,228,096 Toronto, $ 209,938,983 Atlanta, $203,077,500 Texas, $195,869,490 Houston, $192,667,233 San Francisco, $187,932,500 Chicago Cubs, $184,219,250 Boston, $181,207,484 Chicago White Sox, $181,158,666 St. Louis, $175,637,308 Colorado, $171,108,778 Minnesota, $153,588,740 Seattle, $137,119,947 Detroit, $122,235,500 Milwaukee, $118,761,987 Arizona, $116,471,292 Washington, $ 101,190,153 Kansas City, $92,468,100 Miami, $91,700,000 Cleveland, 89,424,629 Cincinnati, $83,610,000 Pittsburgh, $73,277,500 Tampa Bay, $73,184,811 Baltimore, $60,722,300 Oakland, $56,895,000 Of course they can and do at times. But look at the list and tell me which teams most often have the best records. Also if these are correct payrolls these add up to nearly 4.5 billion. If the revenues are 10 billion as was comedy earlier that's nearly 50% of MLB gross revenues. That's quite a bit tied up in just payroll of the MLB teams. The NFL and NBA are 48% and 45% respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, ptatc said: Of course they can and do at times. But look at the list and tell me which teams most often have the best records. Also if these are correct payrolls these add up to nearly 4.5 billion. If the revenues are 10 billion as was comedy earlier that's nearly 50% of MLB gross revenues. That's quite a bit tied up in just payroll of the MLB teams. The NFL and NBA are 48% and 45% respectively. First, a report at the end of 2023 said that MLB had a record $11.6 billion revenue in 2023. That would be 38.7% of revenue going to players, not 50%. Greedy owners and underpaid players, clearly, you've demonstrated that super effectively. https://heavy.com/sports/mlb/sets-revenue-record-11-6-billion/ And the teams that regularly have the best records have payrolls #2, 5, 8, 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, and 28. A couple missed the playoffs this year, but that covers the Dodgers, Yankees, Rays, Minnesota/Cleveland, Astros, braves, Cardinals, Brewers. That's about as random of a set of numbers as I can find. 3 in the top 10, 3 in the next 10, 3 in the bottom 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: First, a report at the end of 2023 said that MLB had a record $11.6 billion revenue in 2023. That would be 38.7% of revenue going to players, not 50%. Greedy owners and underpaid players, clearly, you've demonstrated that super effectively. https://heavy.com/sports/mlb/sets-revenue-record-11-6-billion/ And the teams that regularly have the best records have payrolls #2, 5, 8, 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, and 28. A couple missed the playoffs this year, but that covers the Dodgers, Yankees, Rays, Minnesota/Cleveland, Astros, braves, Cardinals, Brewers. That's about as random of a set of numbers as I can find. 3 in the top 10, 3 in the next 10, 3 in the bottom 10. 7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: First, a report at the end of 2023 said that MLB had a record $11.6 billion revenue in 2023. That would be 38.7% of revenue going to players, not 50%. Greedy owners and underpaid players, clearly, you've demonstrated that super effectively. https://heavy.com/sports/mlb/sets-revenue-record-11-6-billion/ And the teams that regularly have the best records have payrolls #2, 5, 8, 10, 15, 17, 20, 25, and 28. A couple missed the playoffs this year, but that covers the Dodgers, Yankees, Rays, Minnesota/Cleveland, Astros, braves, Cardinals, Brewers. That's about as random of a set of numbers as I can find. 3 in the top 10, 3 in the next 10, 3 in the bottom 10. I think I would disagree that the players are underpaid as with the NBA having 12 players on the roster and the NFL having 53. The NBA has a small squad of G league to pay salaries and the NFL has none while baseball also has 4 full minor league teams to pay for as well. Most salary reports have the MLB average salary as twice that of the NFL and the NFL has around a 4 billion dollar greater revenue so if the MLB owners are greedy the NFL owners are in a different level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 hours ago, pcq said: Maybe follow KCR this season. We already are watching Royals' castoffs...as it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: We already are watching Royals' castoffs...as it is. almost typed the same thing but you beat me to it.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 11 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Fwiw, I find it extremely interesting that we hear complaints about the lack of competitive balance in baseball, a sport with strong contract guarantees, while the NFL, a sport with very weak contract guarantees, literally has a rematch of a Super Bowl from 5 years ago and Kansas City has missed the Super Bowl once in the last 5 years. A hard cap and floor with non guaranteed contracts has left the NFL with the exact same teams on top every year, yet we don’t hear how the NFL needs stronger contract guarantees to improve its competitive balance. The longest playoff appearance drought in the NFL right now is 13 years. (Jets) Its then Broncos (8), Panthers (6), Falcons (6). Every other team in the league is at 3 or less. So outside of 4 teams, everyone in the league is routinely making the playoffs. The longest playoff appearance drought in the MLB right now is 9 years (Tigers & Angels). Its then Pittsburgh (8), Kansas City (8), Colorado (5), and Washington (4). Everyone else is at 3 years or less. I would say they are pretty close to equal in terms of competitive balance if you want to measure by playoff appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Didn’t seem like anything really sourced, but Bruce mentioned Orioles, Dodgers, Mariners and Rangers as options today. He clarified his stance that Cease being dealt before ST starts was his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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