Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm not saying that it's impossible for Thorpe to have MLB success. Giolito did just that before getting traded from the Sox up with a 92 mph fastball and an elite changeup just last year. Idk when was the last time that has been sustained over a career though. Garland? I'm not able to judge his pluses or minuses based on his performance in the Yankees A-ball team, that's just too much of a stretch either way. What we have now is solid stats and peripherals, but clearly with a questionable fastball. How that translates is a big question, you could have a #2 guy or you could have a #6 guy. Garland could ramp his 4 seamer up to the mid 90s. He just didn't pitch that way, he threw a low 90s sinker as his main pitch, aside from one fairly important game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: and the relief will be....his son! Seen you say this twice this week. Sox staying in Chicago and not being sold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: It's probably the 70 grade change. I honestly think the best comparison to what Thorpe can be is Giolito last year before he got traded by the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm not saying that it's impossible for Thorpe to have MLB success. Giolito did just that before getting traded from the Sox up with a 92 mph fastball and an elite changeup just last year. Idk when was the last time that has been sustained over a career though. Garland? Garland threw around 92. Sinkerballs were his game. But I remember him throwing 95-96 during his playoff starts in 2005, after he had gotten additional rest I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: It SURE feels like this was a deal you only make if the #1 thing you care about is ensuring pitching comes back. Except they didn't get Snelling or Lesko either...all these teams involved in potential deals with Cease basically holding back their Top 4 prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm not saying that it's impossible for Thorpe to have MLB success. Giolito did just that before getting traded from the Sox up with a 92 mph fastball and an elite changeup just last year. Idk when was the last time that has been sustained over a career though. Garland? Radke, Greinke, Maddux, Lincecum, Hoffman. Baseball history is full of elite pitchers that sat in the low 90's with elite changes and excellent command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 34 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Last year we were a team going nowhere with a trash farm system. This year, we're a team going nowhere with a solid farm system. I'll take it. Fangraphs has their farm at #12 now. Quote the improvement in less than a year. Should be top 10 after the trade deadline with very little money committed to mlb payroll after this season. About as clean of a slate as you could ask for at the onset of a new rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I honestly think the best comparison to what Thorpe can be is Giolito last year before he got traded by the Sox. Radke or Hendricks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Garland threw around 92. Sinkerballs were his game. But I remember him throwing 95-96 during his playoff starts in 2005, after he had gotten additional rest I believe. Yeah, he definitely could amp it up in to the mid 90's when needed, but usually sat at 91-93 with all those sinkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: Radke, Greinke, Maddux, Lincecum, Hoffman. Baseball history is full of elite pitchers that sat in the low 90's with elite changes and excellent command. Johan Santana was far from dominant with the fastball. Tom Glavine would be yet another that comes to mind. Edited March 14 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, TaylorStSox said: Radke, Greinke, Maddux, Lincecum, Hoffman. Baseball history is full of elite pitchers that sat in the low 90's with elite changes and excellent command. Grienke threw mid 90s when he was at his best. Lincecum did too. The other 3 did not pitch in the 2010s or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Except they didn't get Snelling or Lesko either...all these teams involved in potential deals with Cease basically holding back their Top 4 prospects. yeah, they took less overall because they wanted whatever pitching they could get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, caulfield12 said: Johan Santana was far from dominant with the fastball. Santana threw 95 mph which was plus for a LHP in the 2000s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 58 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Does it give any of you pause that you have to rely on your development system in a big way for this deal to pay off? Of course. I've been bitching about how our owner despises investing in scouting and development for what seems like ages. Now he's blaming the neighborhood of the current home field for the Sox not being able to compete in his quest for a new stadium while teaching his heirs how to be hucksters just like him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 12 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm not saying that it's impossible for Thorpe to have MLB success. Giolito did just that before getting traded from the Sox up with a 92 mph fastball and an elite changeup just last year. Idk when was the last time that has been sustained over a career though. Garland? Comparing him to someone like Garland doesn't really work. John had high contact, high GB rates with a very low swing and miss profile. He had one of the lowest K rates and a super low swing strike rate. To put it in perspective Thrope got 2.5% more swinging strikes than Nastrini, who himself is in elite company for starters. Edited March 14 by mac9001 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Reading Keith Law’s write ups on these guys from the Padres list last month makes this return look a lot worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Radke or Hendricks Nailed it. Kyle Hendricks is the guy. I spaced on him. Didn't he have a great sinker though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Johan Santana was far from dominant with the fastball. Tom Glavine would be yet another that comes to mind. I wasn't counting LH pitchers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dreamin Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 You would think after years of watching top prospect Kopech walk 5 batters per 9 innings, acquiring a top prospect that actually throws strikes and still gets a bunch of whiffs would be a positive thing. But nah, soxtalk says give me the guy that throws 100 but has no idea where the ball is going lol 4 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Radke or Hendricks James shields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/03/13/white-sox-agree-on-trade-with-padres-for-dylan-cease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Santana threw 95 mph which was plus for a LHP in the 2000s. No he didn't, his best season he averaged 93.1 and 91 for his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 15 minutes ago, Jake said: TBH, I don't care about the balance of pitching/hitting coming back in a trade like this. Just get the most value you can. Pitching is sort of easy in that you can never have too much but there's not enough guys locked into the lineup to worry about getting too much position player talent right now either. I'd just take whatever I can get. We're so far away it's best to just stockpile whatever we can, wherever. The reliever they got back could probably be flipped for a C+ type if he stays health. It's a fine trade. It's one of about 18 month's more of solid moves that might have the Sox doing something in 2026. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Fangraphs has their farm at #12 now. Quote the improvement in less than a year. Should be top 10 after the trade deadline with very little money committed to mlb payroll after this season. About as clean of a slate as you could ask for at the onset of a new rebuild. Projecting what they will look like at the trade deadline depends on 2 things: 1. Development. If Eder has an ERA of 6 and a couple guys get hurt, this system is way worse. If Gonzalez makes no progress, they look a lot worse. If Schultz's arm limits him, they look way worse. If Montgomery has any injuries this year or looks like he did at AA last year, they look way worse. 2. MLB player accomplishments. As of right now they have 1 tradable piece in Robert. If Robert gets hurt, as he has each of the last 3 years, they have no major trade pieces. It is possible that someone like Fedde could turn into one, but I would not say at all they "Should be top 10". 3. Who is called up early in the year? the last GM loved rushing guys and turning them into bullpen guys. Will this GM? If Nastrini is in the big leagues, or Thorpe is in the big leagues, this also affects system rankings. They're going to add a draft pick who should slot into the back half of the top 100, but it's not a #1 pick. One or two injuries makes things look worse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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