Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Well, it’s certainly better than what they had last season - an expensive terrible mlb roster. If the mlb roster is terrible, I’d rather have it be super cheap. Also, this is a 3-4 year rebuild. A top 10 farm one year into the rebuild after having a bottom 3 farm 12 months prior is nothing to turn your nose up at. How is it better to have no mlb pieces and to be throwing a AAA rotation for an entire season? Why do you care how expensive the roster is? I'd rather the White Sox field a team of mlb talent attempting to win a s%*# division. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: How is it better to have no mlb pieces and to be throwing a AAA rotation for an entire season? Why do you care how expensive the roster is? I'd rather the White Sox field a team of mlb talent attempting to win a s%*# division. Because then they have payroll to add FA vets or trade for them. If they were already maxed out on payroll and had a s%*# mlb roster and s%*# farm system they’re at a dead end (aka 2023 season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: Twenty-four of the fifty-nine elected players which played for a single team did so under the Free Agency era, only three retiring before 1981 (Gibson, Oliva and Robinson). This despite the much shorter playing window (1871-1974 for pre-Free Agency vs. 1975-2018 for current eligible inductees). Free Agency (1975 Season): In Jeff Bagwell (Houston 1991-2005) Johnny Bench (Cincinnati 1967-1983) Craig Biggio (Houston 1988-2007) George Brett (Kansas City 1973-1993) Bob Gibson (Saint Louis 1959-1975) Tony Gwynn (San Diego 1982-2001) Todd Helton (Colorado 1997-2013) Derek Jeter (New York A. L. 1995-2014) Chipper Jones (Atlanta 1993-2012) Barry Larkin (Cincinnati 1986-2004) Edgar Martinez (Seattle 1987-2004) Joe Mauer (Minnesota 2004-2018) Tony Oliva (Minnesota 1962-1976) Jim Palmer (Baltimore 1965-1984) Kirby Puckett (Minnesota 1984-1995) Jim Rice (Boston 1974-1989) Cal Ripken Junior (Baltimore 1981-2001) Brooks Robinson (Baltimore 1955-1977) Mike Schmidt (Philadelphia 1972-1989) Willie Stargell (Pittsburgh 1962-1982) Mariano Rivera (New York A. L. 1995-2013) Alan Trammell (Detroit 1977-1996) Carl Yastrzemski (Boston 1961-1983) Robin Yount (Milwaukee 1974-1993) Solid Chance Jose Altuve (Houston 2011 - Current) Clayton Kershaw (Los Angeles N. L. 2008 - Current) Mike Trout (Los Angeles A. L. 2011 - Current) Potential Buster Posey (San Francisco 2009-2021) Joey Votto (Cincinnati 2007-2023) - Needs to not return to MLB for Toronto or another team. Lou Whitaker (Detroit 1977-1995) Teams without one or more single team Hall of Famers who have played since 1975: Original 16 MLB Teams (1901 - Current) - Philadelphia / Kansas City / Oakland Athletics (None) (1948 - Current) - San Francisco Giants (Mel Ott 1926-1947) (1951 - Current) - Chicago White Sox (Luke Appling 1930-1950) (1959 - Current) - Cleveland Guardians (Bob Lemon 1946-1958) (1970 - Current) - Los Angeles Dodgers (Don Drysdale 1956-1969) (1972 - Current) - Chicago Cubs (Ernie Banks 1953-1971) Expansion Teams (1961 - Current) - Washington Senators II & Texas Rangers (1961 - Current) - Los Angeles Angels (1962 - Current) - New York Mets (1969 - Current) - Montreal Expos & Washington Nationals (1977 - Current) - Toronto Blue Jays (1993 - Current) - Miami Marlins (1998 - Current) - Arizona Diamondbacks (1998 - Current) - Tampa Bay Rays PS - Red Faber was the third life long White Sox inducted into the HOF, joining Luke Appling and Ted Lyons. So you're getting your hopes up for a Sox player to make the HOF who plays for the Sox his entire career when you're 54 years old and 3 guys have done that in 120 years of Sox baseball and none in the free agent era. Better hope you live to 120 years and I still doubt you'd see it happen. Baseball may not even be a thing then with the way kids cling to their phones ,computers and video games. It's trending that way now with giant asses becoming a thing being a poor excuse for ending up a 400 lb diabetic. ? Don't have a clue as to why being a lifer matters. Just wear the hat going into the Hall is all most care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: How is it better to have no mlb pieces and to be throwing a AAA rotation for an entire season? This is a ridiculous exaggeration. Luis Robert isn't an MLB piece. Got it. Eloy raking isn't an MLB piece. got it. A healthy Yoan isn't an MLB piece. check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Fine but then we can't give Getz credit for his hard working culture for bringing in white guys who played for the Royals. Are you drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Any info on where these new acquisitions will land on the Sox top 10 prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Because then they have payroll to add FA vets or trade for them. If they were already maxed out on payroll and had a s%*# mlb roster and s%*# farm system they’re at a dead end (aka 2023 season). Thats his point though. Hard to fill all those spots in an offseason. Having some actual MLB talent on the roster helps. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said: What you talkin about....he's got the highest paid White Sox free agent ever playing right next to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: This is a ridiculous exaggeration. Luis Robert isn't an MLB piece. Got it. Eloy raking isn't an MLB piece. got it. A healthy Yoan isn't an MLB piece. check. The White Sox couldn't give Eloy or moncada away. Hope they both turn it around but they're not pieces with value. Robert I've talked about plenty and he was not a part of my comment. What's hilarious is were talking about a 25 man roster and you got offended and named three players to say I was exaggerating. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: This is a ridiculous exaggeration. Luis Robert isn't an MLB piece. Got it. Eloy raking isn't an MLB piece. got it. A healthy Yoan isn't an MLB piece. check. That’s not the debate. I said I’d prefer to have a clean slate at the mlb level with little to no payroll commitments versus a bunch of guys like Eloy and Moncada that in my mind carry negative surplus value. In theory, if they build up a top 5 farm system they should be able to produce mlb regulars at a fraction of the cost of eloy and Moncada and then can supplement with vets via free agency and/or trades. A much better situation than where they were a year ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Thats his point though. Hard to fill all those spots in an offseason. Having some actual MLB talent on the roster helps. Oh, it won’t happen in one offseason. This is a 3-4 year rebuild at least. Strap it down folks, it’s going to take a long time for this thing to turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Because then they have payroll to add FA vets or trade for them. If they were already maxed out on payroll and had a s%*# mlb roster and s%*# farm system they’re at a dead end (aka 2023 season). While this is fair...they're not obviously better off than they were on the day Rick Hahn was fired. The payroll space was cleared by Rick Hahn, most of the supplementary talent in the system was acquired by Rick Hahn, their #4-ish prospect was acquired by Getz for a guy that Hahn was unwilling to trade. They clearly had payroll space for 2024 and 2025 thanks to the work of Rick Hahn. They haven't done the typical Hahn offseason thing and made things worse, and Getz deserves credit for not doing obviously stupid things. But in terms of payroll, they've spent comparatively a lot of money on Fedde, Lopez, Maldonado, Pillar, Moustakas, DeJong, and their bullpen. It's not long term commitments, but it's like $20 million+ assuming the obvious vetz make the team, which is at least half of a 2019Hahn. Literally every bit of success from here on out depends on the handful of new development guys they brought in being better than the last ones, and Grifol and Katz being suddenly good at developing big league players, because there's nothing here without that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: So you're getting your hopes up for a Sox player to make the HOF who plays for the Sox his entire career when you're 54 years old and 3 guys have done that in 120 years of Sox baseball and none in the free agent era. Better hope you live to 120 years and I still doubt you'd see it happen. Baseball may not even be a thing then with the way kids cling to their phones ,computers and video games. It's trending that way now with giant asses becoming a thing being a poor excuse for ending up a 400 lb diabetic. ? Don't have a clue as to why being a lifer matters. Just wear the hat going into the Hall is all most care about. Most fans like to cheer for the best players in the game, historic players. Not a fan of permanently tanking and flipping anyone with a pulse for the next 30 seasons. Would like Robert to remain a Sox for life. The team will need dozens of solid players, so if they can win and he be a part of it great. All these tanking trades over the Reinsdorf era has added along the margins, at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, wegner said: What you talkin about....he's got the highest paid White Sox free agent ever playing right next to him. Benintendi is the dust on the floor you can't see at the picture resolution. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The White Sox couldn't give Eloy or moncada away. Hope they both turn it around but they're not pieces with value. Robert I've talked about plenty and he was not a part of my comment. What's hilarious is were talking about a 25 man roster and you got offended and named three players to say I was exaggerating. I don't really understand your point. We're probably 4 or 5 years away from any type of contention. We're starting a rebuild where the vast majority of our assets were failures. The cupboard was bare. This is gonna take a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, wegner said: Any info on where these new acquisitions will land on the Sox top 10 prospects? All three of the prospects slide into the top 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: While this is fair...they're not obviously better off than they were on the day Rick Hahn was fired. The payroll space was cleared by Rick Hahn, most of the supplementary talent in the system was acquired by Rick Hahn, their #4-ish prospect was acquired by Getz for a guy that Hahn was unwilling to trade. They clearly had payroll space for 2024 and 2025 thanks to the work of Rick Hahn. They haven't done the typical Hahn offseason thing and made things worse, and Getz deserves credit for not doing obviously stupid things. But in terms of payroll, they've spent comparatively a lot of money on Fedde, Lopez, Maldonado, Pillar, Moustakas, DeJong, and their bullpen. It's not long term commitments, but it's like $20 million+ assuming the obvious vetz make the team, which is at least half of a 2019Hahn. Literally every bit of success from here on out depends on the handful of new development guys they brought in being better than the last ones, and Grifol and Katz being suddenly good at developing big league players, because there's nothing here without that. And despite all those short term free agent signings they’re still what #19 in payroll this season? They haven’t made any significant signings. And they have very little committed to 2025 and beyond payrolls. They have a ton of payroll flexibility after this season or at least they should pending Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Giolito's fastball last year as his arm was breaking down still averaged 93.1 mph. Giolito is a textbook example of why velocity doesn't matter. Between 19-21 he was able to throw change ups over the plate, avoid hard contact and get a decent amount of swing and misses by getting ahead, getting people to miss pitches over the plate (usually with a change) or get them chase fastballs out of the zone. For the last two year's he wasn't able to get the same results on the change up and his fastball started to get lit up. Similarly Cease was able to work off an elite slider in 22. If you have an elite pitch you can throw over the plate, get strikes and not get hammer you'll do just fine with any fastball as long as you have at least average command. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: It will take a lot of successful development for this to actually make the White Sox improve. Hard to insist that they just got better today. They did get deeper. Doesn't getting deeper mean at least the farm system got better which should usually translate to a better MLB team ? I'm kind of chuckling at what I just wrote considering who the owner still is. But it will be difficult to get much worse right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) 18 minutes ago, WestEddy said: This is a ridiculous exaggeration. Luis Robert isn't an MLB piece. Got it. Eloy raking isn't an MLB piece. got it. A healthy Yoan isn't an MLB piece. check. Of course Robert is one, a very good piece. But you couldn’t salary dump Eloy and Moncada right now. Like most Sox fans, even Eloy’s mom probably gets pissed at his “HI MOM!” antics when he’s sucking at the plate or when he’s been on the IR for half the season. And when you have to say “a healthy Yoan” instead of just “Yoan”, you prove the point that the guy is injured too much. Edited March 14 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: I don't really understand your point. We're probably 4 or 5 years away from any type of contention. We're starting a rebuild where the vast majority of our assets were failures. The cupboard was bare. This is gonna take a while. Lol you think the white sox can afford to go another 4+ years with abysmal teams and rosters? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: I don't really understand your point. We're probably 4 or 5 years away from any type of contention. We're starting a rebuild where the vast majority of our assets were failures. The cupboard was bare. This is gonna take a while. Hmm, do I like this trade more or less if they're 4 or 5 years away from contention? They didn't go all-in to get win now guys, that's positive. But if they are 4-5 years away from contending, then in terms of a Cease trade, that reduces the impact that would have happened if they kept Cease and he got hurt. Out of the pitchers in this deal you have to figure 1 gets hurt anyway. Yeah, if you think they're 5 years away from competing, then you should hold Cease until the deadline and try to maximize his value with a great first half. I've talked myself into it while writing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Lol you think the white sox can afford to go another 4+ years with abysmal teams and rosters? I don’t think they have a choice. There’s no quick fix here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Lol you think the white sox can afford to go another 4+ years with abysmal teams and rosters? We've sucked our entire existence. What's the difference? The Sox aren't going anywhere. It's not like the team is going to "cease" to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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