Cease To Padres per Passan

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

This is because he has a career BABIP of .223. League wide that was .297. The Padres, interestingly enough, had a very low BABIP - so is a lot of that a combination of luck and a big ballpark? 

I’m sure the bigger ballpark is a factor but his strikeout rate is slightly higher than santos too. 

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Jerry wants to win, but only on his terms, which means not spending money on talent or development. A nearly impossible task.

That's the thing I never got.  If you want to be cheap, invest in things that give the most bang for your buck.  For the cost of a crappy end of the pen reliever, the Sox could build one of the best farm departments in baseball between scouting and development.  But we go cheap there.  Sign one less crappy utility guy a year and put that money into the system.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Flexen, Soroka and Fedde do have track records of success. It's weird that you're not one of the guys who argued that Dylan Cease will never be better than a 4.5 ERA pitcher, because that is what he just was. 

I'm not arguing that we will have 5 Cy Young competitors in the rotation. But it's not the level of badness the dour here try to pretend it's going to be. 

Flexen had an ERA over 6 last year, Soroka's success was prior to 2 achilles surgeries, and Fedde was in a different country last year.

There's potential here, but the last MLB season for each of those three guys together adds up to -2.1 rWAR. It could absolutely wind up better than this, but it could wind up the worst rotation we've ever seen.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I understand not wanting to go long term on those guys, but on 1-2 year deals, it’s fine. Plus you need to add guys to potentially flip.

Until there is a team worth adding to, there isn't much point in just "adding payroll"  Outside of filling a roster with guys who can make sure you aren't harming the kids you care about, you are just setting money on fire until adding to a roster means adding important wins and not just going from 60 to 64 wins.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Spotrac has them at $125 million to fill out a roster, but that's also without guys like Pillar, Moustakas, so it will probably go over $130 million when you add in those guys and a few people shuttle back and forth to the IL. Possible some could be traded off of that early in the year.

Will they spend less than that next year? Reinsdorf has complained about losing money in 2020, and then supported extra high payrolls in 2022-2023 with teams that had declining fan support. Is it unbelievable that he would try to do some profit-taking next year with an extra low payroll? We will see.

This season is already a lost cause so who cares. What matters is what they have committed to payroll in 2025 and beyond. And as far as I can tell, it’s very little. Like bottom 5 in the league little as we currently stand with the possibility of going even lower (if vets are dealt at the trade deadline in July).

[T R U]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This season is already a lost cause so who cares. What matters is what they have committed to payroll in 2025 and beyond. And as far as I can tell, it’s very little. Like bottom 5 in the league little as we currently stand with the possibility of going even lower (if vets are dealt at the trade deadline in July).

This means nothing if they aren't going to sign a marquee free agent.

I don't care about adding 5 middling players at $10-12 million a year. Been there, done that. Its not working.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m sure the bigger ballpark is a factor but his strikeout rate is slightly higher than santos too. 

Santos had a better walk rate and a .337 BABIP. Santos was also quite a bit better at keeping the ball in the ballpark. Pretty distinct pitchers.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

The only non-arb guys I see for sure returning next season are Benintendi, Robert, Fedde, and Brebbia. 4 other vets have options that are unlikely to be picked up from what I can tell. So you have 4 non-arb players returning none of which are terribly expensive and there’s a chance that 1 or 2 (Fedde or Brebbia) could be dealt at the deadline this year or next offseason. Looks like a pretty clean slate to me from a payroll perspective.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Santos had a better walk rate and a .337 BABIP. Santos was also quite a bit better at keeping the ball in the ballpark. Pretty distinct pitchers.

Santos is also injured so arguably Wilson has more value as things stand approaching this July’s trade deadline. That’s all I care about at this point. If Wilson can be flipped for a couple 40/45 FV prospects in July that would be HUGE and make this trade look a lot better.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, T R U said:

This means nothing if they aren't going to sign a marquee free agent.

I don't care about adding 5 middling players at $10-12 million a year. Been there, done that. Its not working.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/too-early-2025-mlb-free-agency-rankings-juan-soto-at-no-1-plus-predictions-on-who-will-actually-hit-market/amp/
 

here you go. Time for another run at Zack Wheeler? Ha. I wouldn’t be opposed to it. Or would you prefer the all-in Juan Soto signing?? Should be able to afford either one easily but always a question of what Jerry is willing to authorize. Theoretically, Wheeler should be cheaper than the last time the Sox offered him the top contract in his free agency period.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Santos is also injured so arguably Wilson has more value as things stand approaching this July’s trade deadline. That’s all I care about at this point. If Wilson can be flipped for a couple 40/45 FV prospects in July that would be HUGE and make this trade look a lot better.

But you can say that about how many of the other NRIs the White Sox have already? Is Wilson a vastly better pitcher than them? Maybe, his contact numbers are good, but that's also small sample sizes in Petco park, with a high walk rate. This is a narrow improvement over the other options on paper.

If BABIP isn't his friend this year then he's a non-tender candidate next offseason rather than a flip candidate at the deadline. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/too-early-2025-mlb-free-agency-rankings-juan-soto-at-no-1-plus-predictions-on-who-will-actually-hit-market/amp/
 

here you go. Time for another run at Zack Wheeler? Ha. I wouldn’t be opposed to it. Or would you prefer the all-in Juan Soto signing?? Should be able to afford either one easily but always a question of what Jerry is willing to authorize. Theoretically, Wheeler should be cheaper than the last time the Sox offered him the top contract in his free agency period.

Wheeler signed an extension last week. An additional $126 million over the 3 year period 25-27. He will not be a free agent, your list is out of date.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/zack-wheeler-extension-phillies-ace-agrees-to-three-year-126-million-deal-ahead-of-free-agency/

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Wheeler signed an extension last week. An additional $126 million over the 3 year period 25-27. He will not be a free agent, your list is out of date.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/zack-wheeler-extension-phillies-ace-agrees-to-three-year-126-million-deal-ahead-of-free-agency/

Welp, Burnes it is then…

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Max Kepler would be a nice addition from the mid tier group that the Sox will likely be fishing in. Unless Fletcher is a big success, god knows they’ll be in need of a solid starting RF for several years.

[Quin]

30 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

I don't mind this trade at all.  We didn't get a super high end guy but it seems fair.  

Everyone was saying 2 top 100 guys plus a lotto ticket seemed reasonable.  They ended up with one guy who is a definite top 100 guy and two borderline top 100 guys plus a reliever they can flip in a few months.  To me, that feels equivalent.  Kind of like a hybrid between a quality and quantity trade. 

It sounds like its entirely possible that all 3 guys end up being top 100 in near future... and that isn't even counting what you get from Wilson.  

If they got Kjersted, Ortiz, and a lotto ticket in December everyone would have been content (including myself).   From all accounts that deal was never possible.  I kind of prefer what they ultimately got... at the very least, its a wash.  That deal had the risk of being being two 26 year old who end up as a 1b and a utility player.  Even though we don't have anyone coming back as highly rated as Kjersted, I think this deal is more interesting.  

I cant remember a time that the team had so many viable SP options.  Usually they have a few high ceiling prospects and 4 other dudes.  There's like 15-18 guys I can see being in the rotation in the next 2 years (although not a ton of ace potential guys). 

Would I have preferred a highly touted can't miss LH slugger who is a lock to stick in the corner OF?  Yeah.  But  I can't understand anyone saying they will be bad for 4-5 years in this thread and on twitter.  A large segment of the fanbase is just pouting because the Hahn rebuild failed.  Its over.  That pisses me off too... But move on.  They have a lot of money off the books (or coming off the books) and the bones are there for the next good team in about a year and a half.  

Cause the guy in charge of developing players from the last rebuild is now running the entire show with a bunch of people taken from one of the franchises that is just as horrendous + Brian Bannister and Josh Barfield.

[PaleAleSox]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

Cause the guy in charge of developing players from the last rebuild is now running the entire show with a bunch of people taken from one of the franchises that is just as horrendous + Brian Bannister and Josh Barfield.

What players was he given to develop that had any shot to begin with? 

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Max Kepler would be a nice addition from the mid tier group that the Sox will likely be fishing in. Unless Fletcher is a big success, god knows they’ll be in need of a solid starting RF for several years.

I agree. 

I felt like Kepler would rake playing 80 games at the Cell.  But I looked him his career ballpark splits and while he's hit 11 homers in our park (2nd most non-home park after CLE), his slash line of .192/.291/.385 is really ugly.  But I still feel like he could be a solid shorter term fit, and he's a pretty good defender, though is slowing down in his 30s. 

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Flexen has had more bad years than good.  Soroka has been ruined by injury.  Fedde has one year of success in a different league and a 5.40 ERA in the MLB.  Where are you seeing this track record of success for these guys?

Ho-hum. Are you trying to cheer yourself up?

So basically, by your own rules, no pitcher in the minor leagues will ever be good, because they have "no track record of success" in the majors. Guys come back from injury. They learn a new approach or mechanics. 

I'm not sure what your point is. If you think this team sucks so bad, don't watch. You must be a family favorite at the holidays, arguing with everyone that they're going to die one day, and there's no escape. 

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I agree. 

I felt like Kepler would rake playing 80 games at the Cell.  But I looked him his career ballpark splits and while he's hit 11 homers in our park (2nd most non-home park after CLE), his slash line of .192/.291/.385 is really ugly.  But I still feel like he could be a solid shorter term fit, and he's a pretty good defender, though is slowing down in his 30s. 

Even if he slows down a bit, having a starting RF that can produce 1.5-2 WAR on an annual basis would be a marked improvement over what we’ve seen since Eaton was traded.

[Nardiwashere]

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

Cause the guy in charge of developing players from the last rebuild is now running the entire show with a bunch of people taken from one of the franchises that is just as horrendous + Brian Bannister and Josh Barfield.

I wish they would have brought in someone else (or at least interviewed outside candidates)... but I'm willing to give him a shot.  I'm not sure how much I blame Getz for the prior front office's failures. 

I definitely am giving him a shorter leash than someone who has no ties to the previous front office... but I'll give him at least a year or two.  I've liked a lot of what he's done this offseason and I like the idea of Bannister doing what he's doing.  

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, PaleAleSox said:

What players was he given to develop that had any shot to begin with? 

Chris Getz took over as director of White Sox player development in 2017 according to his Wikipedia page. At the time, the White Sox had the #1 system in baseball, including up to 10 top-100 prospects as per the mid-2017 MLB.com rankings. That was then supplemented by top 5 draft picks in 2018 and 2019 and a top 15 pick in 2020, as well as all of the other draft rounds. 

This should have been an absolutely enormous batch of talent to develop. We look back at guys like Kopech, Eloy, Moncada, Lopez, Fuller, Rutherford, Collins with skepticism now, but a big portion of that is that they did not develop as well as guys ranked this highly should.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Chris Getz took over as director of White Sox player development in 2017 according to his Wikipedia page. At the time, the White Sox had the #1 system in baseball, including up to 10 top-100 prospects as per the mid-2017 MLB.com rankings. That was then supplemented by top 5 draft picks in 2018 and 2019 and a top 15 pick in 2020, as well as all of the other draft rounds. 

This should have been an absolutely enormous batch of talent to develop. We look back at guys like Kopech, Eloy, Moncada, Lopez, Fuller, Rutherford, Collins with skepticism now, but a big portion of that is that they did not develop as well as guys ranked this highly should.

To pin it all on development is unfair. It was likely a failure in both scouting (drafting) AND development. Guys like collins, Fulmer, Madrigal, etc. were highly flawed from the time they were drafted. I’m not sure that’s on Getz.

[TaylorStSox]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Chris Getz took over as director of White Sox player development in 2017 according to his Wikipedia page. At the time, the White Sox had the #1 system in baseball, including up to 10 top-100 prospects as per the mid-2017 MLB.com rankings. That was then supplemented by top 5 draft picks in 2018 and 2019 and a top 15 pick in 2020, as well as all of the other draft rounds. 

This should have been an absolutely enormous batch of talent to develop. We look back at guys like Kopech, Eloy, Moncada, Lopez, Fuller, Rutherford, Collins with skepticism now, but a big portion of that is that they did not develop as well as guys ranked this highly should.

All of those guys were advanced prospects who were beyond the development stage. They have nothing to do with Getz. Most of them were "developed" in different systems.

[WhiteSox2023]

23 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Ho-hum. Are you trying to cheer yourself up?

So basically, by your own rules, no pitcher in the minor leagues will ever be good, because they have "no track record of success" in the majors. Guys come back from injury. They learn a new approach or mechanics. 

I'm not sure what your point is. If you think this team sucks so bad, don't watch. You must be a family favorite at the holidays, arguing with everyone that they're going to die one day, and there's no escape. 

 

So once again, you provide no data to prove your terribly weak point and resort to your same shtick of asking why people are a fan of this team and name-calling how someone must be horrible at a party.  Did you miss public speaking / debate class in high school?  Your arguments are pathetic.

You stated that Flexen, Soroka, and Fedde do indeed have a track record of success. Show it to me. 

Edited March 14 by WhiteSox2023

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

All of those guys were advanced prospects who were beyond the development stage. They have nothing to do with Getz. Most of them were "developed" in different systems.

I mean at the top of that list Moncada, Eloy and Lopez made it to the majors at the top of their game, and regressed at the major league level.