caulfield12 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said: The one thing that I really hate about this trade is that Soroka, Flexen and Fedde are RH's that don't throw hard and feature plus changes. That's not how you set up a pitcher like Thorpe up for success. You'd like a LH or a hard throwing FB/SL/CU starter to separate their profiles. Crochet as opener... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Crochet as opener... That....makes way more sense than I want to admit. I'm leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 34 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Oh, okay, so we're walking that back. Good. Getz is throwing out 3 bounce back guys. Maybe one will take. Soroka threw 120 innings last year. Maybe he throws 150 better innings this year. I don't expect Fedde to be an ace. He already has issues with lefties, so he might just eat high-cost innings. There's Kuhl and Woodford before they cycle through the AAAA guys (Burke, Stiever) then maybe Nastrini hits the bigs. You know all of this. We don't need to announce that everyone will be historically bad for cred. Nobody cares. Do I need to repost the Melania pic? If you're hung up on a line of JR's press conference, then I'm sad for you. I don't listen to that sh*t. I just watch what they do. Stiever's really still a thing? Thought he was completely out of the picture at this point. You also have Iriarte/Berroa that could start or relieve, in theory. Also, what about Deivi Garcia? Seems as if he might be one of the next guys in line for the rotation who has pitched well this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Crochet as opener... This is your best post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: That....makes way more sense than I want to admit. I'm leaving. Aren't you or weren't you in Texas relatively recently? Texas A&M? (Maybe Texsox will chime in as well.) If you had 5-6 days (one week in Plano/Dallas, July 11-23 is timeframe), would you drive back and forth to San Antonio for another 5-6 day trip OR back and forth to Puerto Rico if cost wasn't a consideration? Just curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just now, caulfield12 said: Aren't you or weren't you in Texas relatively recently? Texas A&M? (Maybe Texsox will chime in as well.) If you had 5-6 days (one week in Plano/Dallas, July 11-23 is timeframe), would you drive back and forth to San Antonio for another 5-6 day trip OR back and forth to Puerto Rico if cost wasn't a consideration? Just curious... I am likely teaching a class over the summer so ditching the class costs me money for a replacement. Is there some big financial reward in whatever you're asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Naw, he could just make that change work repeatably when his hand was coated with spidertack. His spin rates and career progression are super clear. He started working with Katz, Katz's big thing was sticky stuff. Giolito immediately developed a super aggressive changeup that destroyed people for 2 years, including a no-hitter. He lost that Change on June 15, 2021. He tried to come up with other arm slots, different pitch rotations to overcome it, it was acceptable, but not nearly as dominant as he was with the sticky stuff change. Ethan Katz parlayed this into a major league pitching coach job and got either 60% or 80% of his starting pitchers using the same sticky stuff, and all of that changed when MLB instituted hand checks, leading to 1-week spin rate drops for 3 of his starters all at the same time and a 4th who threw mostly a 2-seamer and whose career suddenly self destructed. I want to say Pitching Ninja did a video on Gio which showed it really wasn't the sticky stuff, but I'm not completely sure. I believe he's one the best examples of a guy whose delivery was way more important than his spin rate and velo. A good comp would be Mark Prior. Edited March 15 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just now, Balta1701 said: I am likely teaching a class over the summer so ditching the class costs me money for a replacement. Is there some big financial reward in whatever you're asking? You're starting to sound like my law firm, lol. Never mind. Puerto Rico it is. Have already done the whole SA/Austin/Alamo/Riverwalk thing but now with a family to see it. Still get to see White Sox at Rangers on Monday, July 22nd in that mausoleum-like stadium. Thankfully out of the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: I want to say Pitching Ninja did a video on Gio which showed it really wasn't the sticky stuff, but I'm not completely sure. I believe he's one the best examples of a guy whose delivery was way more important than his spin rate and velo. A good comp would be Mark Prior. It was always about his height and extension...yes? Because the fastball always looked 2-3 MPH faster simply due to how long he was and how many milliseconds less the batter had to react to the pitch...think he was somewhere in the Top 5 or Top 10 for this category in all of MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Crochet as opener... @greg775 get ready for an "opener". Couple innings them he's out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 12 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: I want to say Pitching Ninja did a video on Gio which showed it really wasn't the sticky stuff, but I'm not completely sure. I believe he's one the best examples of a guy whose delivery was way more important than his spin rate and velo. A good comp would be Mark Prior. I think the spin rate doesn't' show up on the changeup specifically, but he never got anything like that ridiculous changeup without the sticky stuff. The spin rate drop shows up on the fastball, but the movement showed up on the changeup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 7:23 - "Chicago's monster lineup." ? Basically, this video is showing that he was able to get k's by hanging change up's because the short arm delivery was super deceptive. Edited March 15 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) After watching a lot of Thorpe, Snelling and Lesko, I like Thorpe more than Lesko. Lesko reminds me a bit of a poor man's AJ Burnett. He throws hard and his change has a lot of natural drop, but there's not a lot of deception. I'm sure the spin metrics love him, but he's a good indicator of why delivery/deception can be more important than raw movement. Snelling is super interesting. HIgh effort delivery with a nasty sweeper/slurve type of pitch, almost like Buehrle, but he also throws a really heavy 4 seamer at about 96. As good as that 4 seamer looks, I think I'd rather have Buehrle's cutter. That cutter won't get the swinging strikes, but it's impossible for RH hitters to hit and lay off of. Edited March 15 by TaylorStSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 10 hours ago, Eminor3rd said: I don't either -- I think he was way more advanced than anyone else at that level, and probably 85% to where he needed to be to debut. And I think when he did debut, he was about 85% where he needed to be. He maybe devolved as Sox lack of concern over nutrition and training at those levels let him balloon, his defense got worse from reported levels with cubs, and then his hitting got worse in majors each year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 6 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I think the spin rate doesn't' show up on the changeup specifically, but he never got anything like that ridiculous changeup without the sticky stuff. The spin rate drop shows up on the fastball, but the movement showed up on the changeup. He threw it too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, oldsox said: He threw it too often. And the speed differential between the two pitches narrowed, presumably. From 10-12 mph, closer to 7-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Listened to Eno Saris Podcast. Mentioned how Thorpe has been having trouble getting to 90mph on his fastball. Definitely worrisome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 8 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Crochet as opener... He can open for all of em! f*** the arm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 7 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said: Listened to Eno Saris Podcast. Mentioned how Thorpe has been having trouble getting to 90mph on his fastball. Definitely worrisome! I heard that the gun at Padres camp has been 4-5 mph slow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Eno mentioned he had a trusted scout that backed up his velocity readings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 15 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said: Eno mentioned he had a trusted scout that backed up his velocity readings. I assume a scout would have their own separate speed gun, rather than relying on the stadium gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I can't believe they'd trade for a guy who couldn't hit 90mph. Let's say he is low 90s like everyone says. Is it possible for guys his age/experience to just gain a couple mph or is he what he is at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 5 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: I can't believe they'd trade for a guy who couldn't hit 90mph. Let's say he is low 90s like everyone says. Is it possible for guys his age/experience to just gain a couple mph or is he what he is at this point? No. We need to see if Arizona has any more slappy platoon bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 10 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: I can't believe they'd trade for a guy who couldn't hit 90mph. Let's say he is low 90s like everyone says. Is it possible for guys his age/experience to just gain a couple mph or is he what he is at this point? Some guys do spike in their velocity but it isn’t all that common at this level, usually velocity goes the other way as they get older. If he’s in the high 80s this does seem down even from the scouting reports on him last year, that could be something he recovers during the year, unless there’s a health issue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Some guys do spike in their velocity but it isn’t all that common at this level, usually velocity goes the other way as they get older. If he’s in the high 80s this does seem down even from the scouting reports on him last year, that could be something he recovers during the year, unless there’s a health issue? Preller wouldn't do that to us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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