hi8is Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 56 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: And you guys thought Cease was an ACE and he’s the same pitcher for the Padres that he was last year with the White Sox. He’s basically a 3-4 starter in all but 1 season. His season with the Padres has mirrored his career. He had a stretch with them where he was pitching like a number 1 and then he’s had a stretch where he pitched like a mop up guy. Jury is still out and he very well could provide a team more with many more dominant starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 15 minutes ago, hi8is said: His season with the Padres has mirrored his career. He had a stretch with them where he was pitching like a number 1 and then he’s had a stretch where he pitched like a mop up guy. Jury is still out and he very well could provide a team more with many more dominant starts. Agreed …but he is who he is …. Disappointing considering his skill set. It was a dumb deal for the Padres ….Thorpe is better than Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 14 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Agreed …but he is who he is …. Disappointing considering his skill set. It was a dumb deal for the Padres ….Thorpe is better than Cease. Eh, for years of control and salary sure. But it has yet to be seen if Thorpe will be better than Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 4 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: So he has two plus years of control beyond this season. He’s shot his load in the first half. Even if he’s the same pitcher there is no way he’s pitching another 100 innings this year. He could easily become injured again. He’s given you guys 200 innings in 4 years …. So you can’t blame all of that on 1 TJ injury. There is a possibility he is effective the second half and is poised to go 180-200 innings next season but it’s also possible he gets injured…..we can argue how likely, he suffers another injury, I agree he could be traded in the off season. But, is it worth the risk? C’mon Dude …you obviously just want to argue. Yes injuries happen to pitchers. In fact they are up all over the league. Means has had one good season and has pretty much been injured the rest of his career. Similar to your guy! As I said, Bradish hurt his ulnar nerve in January at Driveline. How is that the Orioles fault? Bautista got hurt last summer trying to throw 120 MPH. You can see the overthrowing in the replay of the inning. it’s not my concern…. I’m not the Orioles GM. It’s in no way my decision. Nor is it your decision if/who Crochet is dealt and for what. The Orioles are one team that’s interested. So the likelihood that he’s dealt here probably isn’t that high. Getz won the Cease deal with Thorpe. That said, I don’t think he got anywhere near what he was asking for from the Orioles. It will be interesting to see his approach to this deadline with another year under his belt. I agree that he needs top value to accelerate the rebuild. The trading team could ramp him down, run him out as a 3 inning starter for a month and a half, and then slot him in the post-season rotation. He's probably the best starting pitcher available this TDL. All pitchers are an injury risk. There's no indication of a problem now. There is no risk in the White Sox keeping Crochet into the off-season. They ramp him down, and he gets more innings next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Eh, for years of control and salary sure. But it has yet to be seen if Thorpe will be better than Cease. we will see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The trading team could ramp him down, run him out as a 3 inning starter for a month and a half, and then slot him in the post-season rotation. He's probably the best starting pitcher available this TDL. All pitchers are an injury risk. There's no indication of a problem now. There is no risk in the White Sox keeping Crochet into the off-season. They ramp him down, and he gets more innings next year. True …. Agreed….True ….. Bradish was 2-0 with a 2.75 ERA with 53 Ks in 39 innings. No risk …. Your dreaming. A number of things could happen . Another injury, regression, etc. Is it definite? No but there is a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 Just now, Rolle Tide said: True …. Agreed….True ….. Bradish was 2-0 with a 2.75 ERA with 53 Ks in 39 innings. No risk …. Your dreaming. A number of things could happen . Another injury, regression, etc. Is it definite? No but there is a risk. Every pitcher has that same risk. Crochet is a guy you can give the ball to in game 1 of a series. I never thought Cease was that guy. Every fan base thinks their prospects are all hall-of-famers, and everybody else's players are all injury and regression risks. There's always a stat somebody pulls out and yells that their K/9 isn't perfect, or whatnot. I would like to see Crochet dealt. Just to give us some exciting news while the team struggles to win 43 games. But you need to pick an argument. If teams don't know what they're getting because an innings limit, then Crochet is a more attractive acquisition this off-season. I don't agree with that. But that's your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Agreed …but he is who he is …. Disappointing considering his skill set. It was a dumb deal for the Padres ….Thorpe is better than Cease. Let's see how well this holds up. Would be shocking if Thorpe finished Top 2-3 in any Cy Young vote. Edited July 7 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Every pitcher has that same risk. Crochet is a guy you can give the ball to in game 1 of a series. I never thought Cease was that guy. Every fan base thinks their prospects are all hall-of-famers, and everybody else's players are all injury and regression risks. There's always a stat somebody pulls out and yells that their K/9 isn't perfect, or whatnot. I would like to see Crochet dealt. Just to give us some exciting news while the team struggles to win 43 games. But you need to pick an argument. If teams don't know what they're getting because an innings limit, then Crochet is a more attractive acquisition this off-season. I don't agree with that. But that's your argument. The bolded part is crap to make yourself feel better about the conversation. No organization hits on all of their prospects. The Orioles won’t either ….My suggestion of a deal for Crochet and Robert was 60 FV (The #9 prospect in Baseball ), 55 FV, 55 FV, 45 FV, and Stowers who is likely a .240 20-25 Homer , 80+ RBI player that’s ready now. With the Caveat of throwing in a DSL kid or two. The offer is fair and reasonable….even if dealt separate they likely won’t fetch that value between them. As for guys whose teams suck and think their guys are worth the ?……see what I just did. In 5 seasons Robert has played in 50ish, 60 ish, 90 ish , 145 ish, and 39 out of 89 games. That’s a fact …. He is an injury risk big time! He’s a good player who has the mix of speed, power, and defense. But, his value is clearly hurt by his limited availability. He’s hitting.230 with and OBP of .305. The OBP sucks! His OPS is respectable due to his SLG. Crochet has been in the professional 5 seasons. He missed one due to TJ. He’s pitched 192 innings and 100 of those is this season. He’s having an awesome year. All of these things are facts! but he is an injury concern based on his history unless you are trying to trade him to push along your rebuild. Unless you hold him too long and he gets hurt again. If a team is trading a package of prospects for him they have to factor in those concerns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Let's see how well this holds up. Would be shocking if Thorpe finished Top 2-3 in any Cy Young vote. He doesn’t need to if Cease amounts to a 3-4 starter who had one stellar season. If Thorpe ends up with a mid 3 ERA and a solid #2 that would be better than Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: He doesn’t need to if Cease amounts to a 3-4 starter who had one stellar season. If Thorpe ends up with a mid 3 ERA and a solid #2 that would be better than Cease. How many #1/2 starters around MLB average 90-92 on their fastball?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: How many #1/2 starters around MLB average 90-92 on their fastball?? There’s actually quite a few in the 92 range. Not too many in the 91 range but he’s not the type of pitcher to live and die with his fastball velocity anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, Rolle Tide said: And you guys thought Cease was an ACE and he’s the same pitcher for the Padres that he was last year with the White Sox. He’s basically a 3-4 starter in all but 1 season. For a contender, he’s a strong #3. Crochet is in the Chris Sale realm when it comes to pure stuff. His only question is health and he’s proven to be a very healthy 25 year old this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 What will last longer, this rebuild or Orioles fans fighting us in this specific thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 3 minutes ago, Quin said: What will last longer, this rebuild or Orioles fans fighting us in this specific thread? I just realized this thread is going to hit 400 pages…forgot how much this got boosted up with all the back & forth the O’s fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Jesus Christ. Cease is a loose 1, strong 2. The return for him was solid. thread over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 12 minutes ago, Quin said: What will last longer, this rebuild or Orioles fans fighting us in this specific thread? This rebuild, 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) Post See new posts Conversation Dan Sanchez @oriolesreview So the Yankees don’t want to give up Spencer Jones (#74 prospect, .730 OPS in AA at age 23) for Crochet, but White Sox fans will literally never stop lambasting Elias as a “prospect hugger” for not giving up Samuel Basallo (#12 prospect, .791 OPS in AA at age 19). https://x.com/oriolesreview/status/1810080267228336130?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1810080267228336130|twgr^904aa4918d16e481528b691f87b5b2ad89ec07ed|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.orioleshangout.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcorecontroller%3Dembedez_iframe%3D1ez_iframe%3D1module%3Dsystemurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fx.com2Foriolesreview2Fstatus2F18100802672283361303Fs3D4626t3DG3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Edited July 8 by Rolle Tide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: So the Yankees don’t want to give up Spencer Jones (#74 prospect, .730 OPS in AA at age 23) for Crochet, but White Sox fans will literally never stop lambasting Elias as a “prospect hugger” for not giving up Samuel Basallo (#12 prospect, .791 OPS in AA at age 19). I’m on record saying I wish Elias was our GM… so that’s what I think of him. ? f*** this front office with a massive purple dinosaur. Edited July 8 by hi8is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Every pitcher has that same risk. Crochet is a guy you can give the ball to in game 1 of a series. I never thought Cease was that guy. Every fan base thinks their prospects are all hall-of-famers, and everybody else's players are all injury and regression risks. There's always a stat somebody pulls out and yells that their K/9 isn't perfect, or whatnot. I would like to see Crochet dealt. Just to give us some exciting news while the team struggles to win 43 games. But you need to pick an argument. If teams don't know what they're getting because an innings limit, then Crochet is a more attractive acquisition this off-season. I don't agree with that. But that's your argument. A guy with an injury history is more likely to be fragile than a guy who pitches 180 innings year after year wit( no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolle Tide Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 1 minute ago, hi8is said: I’m on record saying I wish Elias was our GM… so that’s what I think of him. ? f*** this front office with a massive purple dinosaur. Yeah …he managed a penny pinching owner in John Angelos. He and Sig Medal have built a quality organization that had piss poor scouting and development that dates back to the early 80s. I don’t blame you for being envious. Really I wish you guys a speedy rebuild. Rebuilds suck for us fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 13 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Post See new posts Conversation Dan Sanchez @oriolesreview So the Yankees don’t want to give up Spencer Jones (#74 prospect, .730 OPS in AA at age 23) for Crochet, but White Sox fans will literally never stop lambasting Elias as a “prospect hugger” for not giving up Samuel Basallo (#12 prospect, .791 OPS in AA at age 19). https://x.com/oriolesreview/status/1810080267228336130?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1810080267228336130|twgr^904aa4918d16e481528b691f87b5b2ad89ec07ed|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.orioleshangout.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcorecontroller%3Dembedez_iframe%3D1ez_iframe%3D1module%3Dsystemurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fx.com2Foriolesreview2Fstatus2F18100802672283361303Fs3D4626t3DG3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA The O’s have a deeper farm and more top guys to deal would be the difference between O’s and Yanks being called prospect huggers or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 15 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Post See new posts Conversation Dan Sanchez @oriolesreview So the Yankees don’t want to give up Spencer Jones (#74 prospect, .730 OPS in AA at age 23) for Crochet, but White Sox fans will literally never stop lambasting Elias as a “prospect hugger” for not giving up Samuel Basallo (#12 prospect, .791 OPS in AA at age 19). https://x.com/oriolesreview/status/1810080267228336130?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1810080267228336130|twgr^904aa4918d16e481528b691f87b5b2ad89ec07ed|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.orioleshangout.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcorecontroller%3Dembedez_iframe%3D1ez_iframe%3D1module%3Dsystemurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fx.com2Foriolesreview2Fstatus2F18100802672283361303Fs3D4626t3DG3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Yet neither team has him. Worthless post, it can stay where it came from. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 13 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: The O’s have a deeper farm and more top guys to deal would be the difference between O’s and Yanks being called prospect huggers or not. The Yankees have also not been afraid to make a big deal with prospects. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Rolle Tide said: Post See new posts Conversation Dan Sanchez @oriolesreview So the Yankees don’t want to give up Spencer Jones (#74 prospect, .730 OPS in AA at age 23) for Crochet, but White Sox fans will literally never stop lambasting Elias as a “prospect hugger” for not giving up Samuel Basallo (#12 prospect, .791 OPS in AA at age 19). https://x.com/oriolesreview/status/1810080267228336130?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1810080267228336130|twgr^904aa4918d16e481528b691f87b5b2ad89ec07ed|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.orioleshangout.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcorecontroller%3Dembedez_iframe%3D1ez_iframe%3D1module%3Dsystemurl%3Dhttps3A2F2Fx.com2Foriolesreview2Fstatus2F18100802672283361303Fs3D4626t3DG3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Didn’t the Yankees make a significant trade for Juan Soto last offseason? They’re good for at least one big trade a year on average it seems so I don’t really understand your point here? Edited July 8 by JUSTgottaBELIEVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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