Cease To Padres per Passan

[bmags]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sure, now do the same thing for positional prospects and compare it to other orgs.  After the big three, our positional depth falls off massively.

Right I just don't see anything to say " we are good here". Yeah everyone wants the Orioles guys here, but the fact that no other org can put together a package anyone else likes because of the lack of position guys should tell you all you need to know about the orioles leverage there.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Sox farm is lacking big time overall, no doubt

Take a look at a deep farm, like the Dodgers for example, compared to the Sox and it shows you how far they need to come. 

But I actually like our pitching depth.  It’s lack some of the high end talent that stronger farm systems may have, but we should have close to 20 legit prospects in SP roles next year from A to AAA.  Maybe that’s not special, but it’s better than giving precious innings to journeymen and org guys which we’ve done far too often in the past.

Meanwhile, the positional depth is completely lacking.  The OF group is terrible with Wilfred Veras perhaps your best prospect after Colas.  The IF situation is a lot better, but is still lacking in the lower minors.  I don’t see any 1B/DH types that seem like could potentially replace Vaughn one day.  Catching has gotten better though, but we also have zero major league catchers in reality.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Chicago White Sox

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Right I just don't see anything to say " we are good here". Yeah everyone wants the Orioles guys here, but the fact that no other org can put together a package anyone else likes because of the lack of position guys should tell you all you need to know about the orioles leverage there.

I’m not suggesting we don’t take pitching.  If we can’t get positional prospects, but can get premium pitching prospects then do it.  I’m just saying I’d push harder for positional centerpieces if possible.  I just see an easier path to scramble together a competent pitching staff than I do a competent lineup.

[SoCalChiSox]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Right I just don't see anything to say " we are good here". Yeah everyone wants the Orioles guys here, but the fact that no other org can put together a package anyone else likes because of the lack of position guys should tell you all you need to know about the orioles leverage there.

BAL has no leverage. They can't spend their way into a viable postseason rotation and have redundant pieces so it's not like they are cleaning out their farm.

BAL simply has a Dickless Wonder as a GM and that is the reason for the holdup. If he wants to cry in his crab cakes in October again tho, that's cool. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

But I actually like our pitching depth.  It’s lack some of the high end talent that stronger farm systems may have, but we should have close to 20 legit prospects in SP roles next year from A to AAA.  Maybe that’s not special, but it’s better than giving precious innings to journeymen and org guys.

Meanwhile, the positional depth is completely lacking.  The OF group is terrible with Wilfred Veras perhaps your best prospect after Colas.  The IF situation is a lot better, but is still lacking in the lower minors.  I don’t see any 1B/DH types that seem like could potentially replace Vaughn one day.  Catching has gotten better though, but we also have zero major league catchers in reality.

The Gonzalez pick has been about as disappointing as picking 5th and then again in the 11-12 range.

That's hard for any fanbase to get behind waiting for...compared to the 2018-19 era of Sox prospects.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not suggesting we don’t take pitching.  If we can’t get positional prospects, but can get premium pitching prospects then do it.  I’m just saying I’d push harder for positional centerpieces if possible.  I just see an easier path to scramble together a competent pitching staff than I do a competent lineup.

There's nothing easy with this org.

[SoxAce]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Of course you find the random pessimistic take on Twitter from a dude with no access vs. the general “he is in crazy demand” of actual MLB insiders.

_____ gonna _____ (you can fill in the blank from there) 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

BAL has no leverage. They can't spend their way into a viable postseason rotation and have redundant pieces so it's not like they are cleaning out their farm.

BAL simply has a Dickless Wonder as a GM and that is the reason for the holdup. If he wants to cry in his crab cakes in October again tho, that's cool. 

He did say he was willing to move some prospects, including some of the true top ones.  He also acknowledged that they can more or less outbid anyone snd may not need to push so deeply to bid competitively for upgrades.

I still think a trade will ultimately happen between us and them because the match is simply too perfect, but will likely require us to move on from Mayo or Basallo being in the trade (just my guess) and BAL beefing up the second piece with a legit top 100 guy.

[baseball_gal_aly]

29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Of course you find the random pessimistic take on Twitter from a dude with no access vs. the general “he is in crazy demand” of actual MLB insiders.

We've already beaten this to death. That's what I actually think is happening. No need to re-hash old arguments. 

We'll see what the return actually is. I hope you all are correct. I want the Sox to get the best package they can, and if the value isn't there then I don't think Cease gets traded this winter.

Note: I think Cease starts OD with the Sox because I don't think the value is there.  

Edited December 6, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[SoCalChiSox]

53 minutes ago, bmags said:

Jorge is a pretty nice bat.

Actually you are right I looked at him some more and he is promising...assuming that's who Bruce is referencing.

However I also read he was a reverse splits hitter this year which would not be good at all. Hopefully that's not a trend. We need a LHS to be an actual LHS.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The Gonzalez pick has been about as disappointing as picking 5th and then again in the 11-12 range.

That's hard for any fanbase to get behind waiting for...compared to the 2018-19 era of Sox prospects.

I’m willing to give Gonzalez a bit more time as he at least had supporters in the prospect community ahead of the draft, but his lack of speed and poor showing in his short minor league tenure makes me pessimistic.  I just think you can’t totally overreact to a poor first year showing for a draft pick.  And the kid does have pretty good plate discipline, so I could see an average everyday 2B floor being possible even if the upside is disappointing for such a high pick.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

We've already beaten this to death. That's what I actually think is happening. No need to re-hash old arguments. 

We'll see what the return actually is. I hope you all are correct. I want the Sox to get the best package they can, and if the value isn't there then I don't think Cease gets traded this winter.

Note: I think Cease starts OD with the Sox because I don't think the value is there.  

What old arguments are you referring to?

[baseball_gal_aly]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

What old arguments are you referring to?

See the Kelenic thread

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

There's nothing easy with this org.

No doubt, but that “easier” path includes a higher degree of luck since we have more chances with pitching prospects than we do positional guys.

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, Whisox05 said:

 

So in other words, Cease is worth two top 100 prospects?

[SoCalChiSox]

7 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

We've already beaten this to death. That's what I actually think is happening. No need to re-hash old arguments. 

We'll see what the return actually is. I hope you all are correct. I want the Sox to get the best package they can, and if the value isn't there then I don't think Cease gets traded this winter.

Note: I think Cease starts OD with the Sox because I don't think the value is there.  

Would you agree that if Glasnow gets a single Top 100 prospect in this market plus some other useful piece then in fact the market will/should bear at least two Top 100 prospects for Cease given the differences in salary/control/injury history?

 

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Would you agree that if Glasnow gets a single Top 100 prospect in this market plus some other useful piece then in fact the market will/should bear at least two Top 100 prospects for Cease given the differences in salary/control/injury history?

 

No, because Glasnow is a better pitcher than Cease and has a stronger track record of success. 

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

So in other words, Cease is worth two top 100 prospects?

The White Sox asked the Reds for 2 top 100 prospects and the Reds said yes? Why didn't anyone change the thread title to say that he had been traded. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

No, because Glasnow is a better pitcher than Cease and has a stronger track record of success. 

?????

Let’s just ignore availability (i.e. ability to actually make starts), salary, & control

Edited December 6, 2023 by Chicago White Sox

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Would you agree that if Glasnow gets a single Top 100 prospect in this market plus some other useful piece then in fact the market will/should bear at least two Top 100 prospects for Cease given the differences in salary/control/injury history?

 

Glasnow brought back a top 100 prospect and more? I'm impressed that's one hell of a return for a guy with that contract state and injury history, but, when did these deals happen? I can't find them listed anywhere?

[SoCalChiSox]

7 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

No, because Glasnow is a better pitcher than Cease and has a stronger track record of success. 

So you're asking this Board to believe that even though he's made of glass, is making three times Cease salary this year and has only half of Cease's team control remaining...they are going to get roughly equivalent returns?

Cease had 3.7 fWAR last year even in a "down" year, but he's evidently Hector fucking Santiago now, huh? 

[SoCalChiSox]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Glasnow brought back a top 100 prospect and more? I'm impressed that's one hell of a return for a guy with that contract state and injury history, but, when did these deals happen? I can't find them listed anywhere?

I was posing a hypothetical that if A occurs, it's pretty damn reasonable to think B will occur. 

However, apparently we can't even agree on that. 

I'm pretty confident though that Glass Glasnow will return at least a single Top 100 and if that occurs we can pretty much take judicial notice that Cease will return 2. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I was posing a hypothetical that if A occurs, it's pretty damn reasonable to think B will occur. 

However, apparently we can't even agree on that. 

I'm pretty confident though that Glass Glasnow will return at least a single Top 100 and if that occurs we can pretty much take judicial notice that Cease will return 2. 

I think I'd be more surprised if Glasnow brought back a top 100 prospect than if Cease brought back the luxury packages y'all envision.

Dude's good, but the Rays are clearing salary, $25 million is a lot for 1 year, and he has a very clear injury history that makes him a risk over a full season.

This is the Rays we're talking about. They win trades because they don't follow top 100 lists, they find guys who turn out way better than expected when put into their system. They will take 2 pitchers who are #10 and #12 in some mid-level system, turn them into fireballing relievers, get 2 years out of each of them, trade 1 for 3 more prospects, and then have the other go down for TJS. 

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I was posing a hypothetical that if A occurs, it's pretty damn reasonable to think B will occur. 

However, apparently we can't even agree on that. 

I'm pretty confident though that Glass Glasnow will return at least a single Top 100 and if that occurs we can pretty much take judicial notice that Cease will return 2. 

He still can’t explain why Giolito was worth a top 100 prospect just a few months ago but now quality SP are worth absolute dogshit.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He still can’t explain why Giolito was worth a top 100 prospect just a few months ago but now quality SP are worth absolute dogshit.

I mean, I've said that Cease should return a top 100 prospect and one other piece, so I guess the Giolito return was "absolute dogshit". I don't have to explain the Giolito return since he brought back worse than Dogshit.