Cease To Padres per Passan

[WestEddy]

MLBTR chat, Steve Adams said:

Quote

Kris

1:26

What do you see being the orioles most probable starting pitching addition?

 

Steve Adams

1:27

A trade pickup -- Cease makes more sense to me than the one-year guys (e.g. Bieber, Glasnow, Burnes). O's could also get a little cute and add someone who's not widely viewed as a lock to move. Kopech, Luzardo/Cabrera/Braxton, etc.

I couldn't see a contending Orioles deciding on a Kopech project during this window, but I could see somebody picking up Kopech and parking him in the bullpen for a season. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s your plan then?  You seem to want to trade Cease for a veteran with limited control?  How would you plan to develop a winner by the time said veteran hits free agency?

I think I already answered this question in another post you didn't see yet . I'm just saying be open to acquiring still youngish higher floor guys like Lux , not necessarily Lux.

You say he'd be the headliner, others say 3rd piece .

These teams do have other options to trade their unwanted talent. Lux might not be the Dodgers starting SS in 2024 but he will be starting for someone, perhaps the Brewers. But he would be a good guy to instantly start at 2nd base for the Sox and he have 2 years to establish high trade value . Would be great if he could do it right away. In the first 90 games of the season in 2022 he was hitting .300 with over .800 OPS.

Either way you'd be spreading out the prospect acquisitions over a longer period of time getting a chance to see which prospect of ours and other teams develop. This is a continuing philosophy that has nothing to do with winning a lot of games in the next 2-3 years despite the BS spewing from Reinsdorf's mouth or Getz calling it a retool.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not sweating it out. I could give a s%*# about rumors. When it happens it happens.

The Sox have a long way to go to become revelent again.  When he is traded even if you are happy or displeased about the return why does it matter? We'd have to wait another couples years waiting for prospects to develop in a system not known for developing lately.

It's a lot gnashing of teeth over stuff we can't control with an owner in charge who doesn't care about you or winning in any other way but his, which has proven to be a winning formula only for mediocrity.

I like Getz is taking his time with these deals, learning the process, seeking counsel with the people he brought in to make wise decisions. There should be no rush to trade Cease unless they get a package Getz and Co. is happy with completing.

To me it seemed as though Hahn rushed free agent signings at the start of the market, didn’t know much if anything about some of the prospects he received in trades, had no wise or cohesive plan regarding roster construction.

Getz seems to have less money to work with, is stuck with previous mistakes, but is making moves with a stated purpose consistent with the plan he laid out. It’s been a long time coming with this team.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Yes, Collins and Burdi over Lux and Smith.  The braintrust.

Lux as a Cease headliner (how would he not be, at 3 fWAR, bizarre as it is) would be a really poor use of resources.

He was injured all of last year so his value may not be as high as it might be once he shakes off the rust especially when you are surrounded by a lot of good hitters. I'm sure it helped Outman .

But the Dodgers right now are tauting him as their starting SS to increase value , but he is likely a future 2nd baseman but Betts will be there.

I think the Dodgers trade him before the other teams are reminded that his future isn't at SS.

[fathom]

In a world where Lugo gets 45 million, Cease’s value continues to climb

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I like Getz is taking his time with these deals, learning the process, seeking counsel with the people he brought in to make wise decisions. There should be no rush to trade Cease unless they get a package Getz and Co. is happy with completing.

To me it seemed as though Hahn rushed free agent signings at the start of the market, didn’t know much if anything about some of the prospects he received in trades, had no wise or cohesive plan regarding roster construction.

Getz seems to have less money to work with, is stuck with previous mistakes, but is making moves with a stated purpose consistent with the plan he laid out. It’s been a long time coming with this team.

While I agree with everything you said and it's a start in the right direction it's a long way from fixing drafting and developing and maintaining a steady influx of young talent that is so vital to successful teams.

I am not going to forget that he's played an important role in developing talent in the minors that hasn't been all that fruitful lately.

  Perhaps he'll have more power as GM to do things his way .

[South Side Hit Men]

13 minutes ago, fathom said:

In a world where Lugo gets 45 million, Cease’s value continues to climb

Was that your comment in the MLBTR Chat.

https://live.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-12-12-23-17211.html

 

Quote

 

2:16 In a world where Seth Lugo gets 3 years/$45M, Cease's value continues to climb.

 

 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Was that your comment in the MLBTR Chat.

https://live.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-12-12-23-17211.html

 

 

Ha, nope

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Was that your comment in the MLBTR Chat.

https://live.jotcast.com/chat/chat-with-mlbtrs-steve-adams-12-12-23-17211.html

 

 

Piggybacking off this, identify theft is not a joke, guys. Who did it?!

Edited December 12, 2023 by Bob Sacamano

[South Side Fireworks Man]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Piggybacking off this, identify theft is not a joke, guys. Who did it?!

That must have been Kramer's friend.  

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

10 minutes ago, South Side Fireworks Man said:

That must have been Kramer's friend.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

2026 would be Lux's last season of control. That does the Sox no good.

You would have to define " does the Sox no good " . There's a lot of good things that can happen before the 2026 trade deadline. How he performs in 2024 and 2025 could have good outcomes. By then you'll have a much better idea how far away you are depending on our minor leaguers performances over the next 2+ year.

Moncada and Eloy likely gone. Benintendi closer to being gone. A bit more financial flexibility perhaps. Maybe even a new owner.

If he established himself with 2 years of high performance now he's worth something in a trade. Maybe Robert is traded before Lux is and now the Sox have Montgomery,Colas, Sosa, Quero , Ramos and some pitchers and some better development luck and even more talent in the minors from the Cease and Robert trade. You start the Tampa Bay imitation game by trading away guys about to get too expensive to keep the influx of talent coming and now trade for some lower and mid level prospects.  This way you are spreading out the prospects acquisitions over a 3 year period. Cease in 2023/ 24,  Lux or Robert 24/25 and again Lux or Robert in 25/26.

Such a thing to say about 3 years in the future confounds me. You must start with a vision.

Edited December 12, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[steveno89]

26 minutes ago, fathom said:

In a world where Lugo gets 45 million, Cease’s value continues to climb

This rings really true^

Seth Lugo entering his age 34 season parlayed a solid 2023 into a 3/$45 million deal 

Cease's age 28 and 29 seasons are available for essentially 2/$25 million, a massive bargain compared to what other free agents will end up costing in terms of money, years and draft picks/pool money

He is a player a club could trade for and still retain financial flexibility to go out and make more moves vs. one year of Glasnow at $25 million

Yamamoto, Snell, Imanaga, Stroman, Montgomery are out there, but each will require major or substantial commitments.

Giolito, Wacha, Flaherty, Yariel Rodriguez, Clevinger, Lorenzen, Manaea, Mahle, Montas, Severino, etc. are still out there too

Such depth is holding up the trade market for sure

[tray]

People go to see HR and wait for at bats by Robert, Eloy and Vaughn. IMO, it would be foolish to trade any of them, just like it was foolish to trade Burger because he brought excitement to the game with every at-bat he had.  I believe that the Burger trade was the final straw that resulted in KW and Hahn being shown the door. Then there was signing Benintendi for 50 Mil while passing on Cody Bellinger on a shorter term deal. One stupid move after another.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, tray said:

People go to see HR and wait for at bats by Robert, Eloy and Vaughn. IMO, it would be foolish to trade any of them, just like it was foolish to trade Burger because he brought excitement to the game with every at-bat he had.  I believe that the Burger trade was the final straw that resulted in KW and Hahn being shown the door. Then there was signing Benintendi for 50 Mil while passing on Cody Bellinger on a shorter term deal. One stupid move after another.

People go to see their team win. The more you win the more people who show up.

Eloy and Vaughn have been nearly useless to winning. You can go ahead and give me the I talked bad about Eloy , laugh emoji now Tray.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

In a world where Lugo gets 45 million, Cease’s value continues to climb

Yup, just got to wait for the last couple arms to go and then we should start seeing some serious offers.

[GreenSox]

Lugo was good last year, after a nifty move by the Padres to switch him back to starter.
If these dog starters are worth $10 million, $15 mill for him seems reasonable.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, GreenSox said:

Lugo was good last year, after a nifty move by the Padres to switch him back to starter.
If these dog starters are worth $10 million, $15 mill for him seems reasonable.

I didn't realize how solid he has been in his career.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

https://x.com/mlbbrucelevine/status/1734702233705714128?s=46&t=Wr6gOVOo8Za8Bnez19t84w

[fathom]

1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

https://x.com/mlbbrucelevine/status/1734702233705714128?s=46&t=Wr6gOVOo8Za8Bnez19t84w

Guess that means Cubs are interested in him.  Always thought they were the best fit besides Orioles.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

 

That's what I've figured all along. His drop-off doesn't look injury related, just strange mechanics that can be worked on. 

[Tnetennba]

15 minutes ago, fathom said:

Guess that means Cubs are interested in him.  Always thought they were the best fit besides Orioles.

Maybe we can pawn off Eloy on them too and complete the circle.

[fathom]

21 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Maybe we can pawn off Eloy on them too and complete the circle.

I get the reference, but unless he has more value than reported, the Sox should keep Eloy and hope he goes nuts and improves his trade value.  Trading him for scraps to save ten million, just to turn around and play Sheets more, would be disheartening.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

I get the reference, but unless he has more value than reported, the Sox should keep Eloy and hope he goes nuts and improves his trade value.  Trading him for scraps to save ten million, just to turn around and play Sheets more, would be disheartening.

Getz has boxed himself into a corner with Eloy. Didn't he more or less say he's gone, so he kind of now has to be gone?

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, fathom said:

I get the reference, but unless he has more value than reported, the Sox should keep Eloy and hope he goes nuts and improves his trade value.  Trading him for scraps to save ten million, just to turn around and play Sheets more, would be disheartening.

I’m with you.  Unless someone gives you something of real value, hold onto him and hope a new clubhouse culture (and luck) bring out the best of him.  It may be a long shot, but if he returns to being a 140 wRC+ hitter while being healthy he suddenly has a lot of value.