Cease To Padres per Passan

[SoCalChiSox]

2 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’ve just accepted that it’s going to be the Braves and it will be Grissom, one or AJSS/Waldrep, and probably a lotto ticket. And then I will do mental gymnastics believing that it is a good return, even though they could have done better trading him elsewhere.

I too am accepting that it will be ATL and that I'll hate the return. It's sad that Getz is putting his pig headed belief in Limp Dick Ball ahead of the good of the team but whatever. IMO, even if BAL gave him the package he wanted he still wouldn't do it, he's just using them to drive up the price for an all pitching deal elsewhere. Even if Elias wasn't prospect hoarding, I'm increasingly of the belief that BAL is out.  

I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel to believe it's a good return. I'm not going to call chicken s%*# chicken salad. f*** Atlanta, f*** the Royals and f*** Chris Getz.

Not necessarily in that order. 

[fathom]

10 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’ve just accepted that it’s going to be the Braves and it will be Grissom, one or AJSS/Waldrep, and probably a lotto ticket. And then I will do mental gymnastics believing that it is a good return, even though they could have done better trading him elsewhere.

The thing that drives me insane is that if the Sox are so high on Waldrep, they could have just drafted him a few months ago.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

12 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’ve just accepted that it’s going to be the Braves and it will be Grissom, one or AJSS/Waldrep, and probably a lotto ticket. And then I will do mental gymnastics believing that it is a good return, even though they could have done better trading him elsewhere.

If that's the best offer you get, you HAVE to hold him until the deadline and hope that he returns closer to the 2022 form.  If he remains the 2023 Dylan, you'd get a similar offer to that booty offer from someone else then.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

The thing that drives me insane is that if the Sox are so high on Waldrep, they could have just drafted him a few months ago.

Yeahhhhh, that's another one of my confusions... He was a late first.. He can't have soured his value that much in 2 months, right?  A headliner for Cease when you coulda just taken him?! ugh.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Call me crazy, but I really don’t care what positions we get back for Cease. Just want Getz and co to be smart and maximize value. This team is so far away from actually competing (not just for the central) that trying to get prospects for certain positions is a pointless worry.
And like it or not, Robert is going to have to be traded before this rebuild of the rebuild is finished so whatever you don’t get for Cease you can address later in a Robert trade if need be.
 

If you’re being realistic, who whinin the entire organization are we confidently penciling into the 2025 lineup/pitching staff? Montgomery and ….? Obviously we have some other prospects to be hopeful of, but the void of talent is so glaring that thinking we need to focus on any certain positions is kinda crazy to me honestly. 

[steveno89]

13 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I too am accepting that it will be ATL and that I'll hate the return. It's sad that Getz is putting his pig headed belief in Limp Dick Ball ahead of the good of the team but whatever. IMO, even if BAL gave him the package he wanted he still wouldn't do it, he's just using them to drive up the price for an all pitching deal elsewhere. Even if Elias wasn't prospect hoarding, I'm increasingly of the belief that BAL is out.  

I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel to believe it's a good return. I'm not going to call chicken s%*# chicken salad. f*** Atlanta, f*** the Royals and f*** Chris Getz.

Not necessarily in that order. 

Although ATL makes sense as a suitor, I do not see them being the trade destination at the end of the day unless the Sox are hell bent on adding pitching

Cincinnati, Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Braves, Cardinals, Orioles, Phillies, Twins, Blue Jays, Yankees could all make degrees of sense

 

[bmags]

AJSS flew up 4 levels as a 20 year old and put up 85 innings of dominant ball in the minors and good starts for a playoff team.

Grissom flew up to MLB from AA as a 20 year old and threw up a 120 wRC+. Reports have been that his defense has improved as a 2b last year, though it's true, right now as a 22 year old he has more work to do to be passable at 2b.

That's a strong start of players who can handle the moment, and play up to competition.

Owen Murphy (IL HS woop) was one of the youngest starting pitchers in A+ last year.

Didier Fuentes was one of the youngest pitchers in carolina league. His mix reminds me of what was successful with Mena.

I get that when you are dreaming of 3 top 100 guys from Baltimore they are giving it makes people mad not to get it. But I ...would really like the above.

Atlanta has shown itself really strong at finding players with the mental makeup/growth mindset to handle tough assignments and thrive. Let's lean into that. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I don’t buy yet that Getz wants to be a small ball club.  That being said, I do think he is going to place a much stronger emphasis on athleticism, speed, & defense than Hahn ever did.  However, that’s a very low bar to cross given Hahn didn’t really give a s%*# about any of those things when team building.

The reality is we need to develop an offense based on OBP & power.  We can’t only have four dudes capable of hitting bombs and then 75% of them being solo shots because no one is ever on base.  Unfortunately, we have very few pieces that fit that mold right now.  Montgomery, Ramos, & Quero should all help some, but we need a lot more than those guys and Robert to develop a competent offense.

When it comes to a Cease trade, get the best package of talent and don’t settle on a specific ratio of positional vs. pitching prospects.  All else being equal I’d prioritize bats and ideally an OF, but you can’t limit yourself to specific needs or you’ll likely come away with less overall talent.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

AJSS + Waldrep + Murphy would be great imo.

I think Getz realizes he’ll never be able to sign a high end FA starting pitcher so he’s going to have to draft/trade for them. It is what it is.

The problem is next year’s free agent class for bats is pretty garbage outside of the ones we can’t afford like Soto.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

AJSS flew up 4 levels as a 20 year old and put up 85 innings of dominant ball in the minors and good starts for a playoff team.

Grissom flew up to MLB from AA as a 20 year old and threw up a 120 wRC+. Reports have been that his defense has improved as a 2b last year, though it's true, right now as a 22 year old he has more work to do to be passable at 2b.

That's a strong start of players who can handle the moment, and play up to competition.

Owen Murphy (IL HS woop) was one of the youngest starting pitchers in A+ last year.

Didier Fuentes was one of the youngest pitchers in carolina league. His mix reminds me of what was successful with Mena.

I get that when you are dreaming of 3 top 100 guys from Baltimore they are giving it makes people mad not to get it. But I ...would really like the above.

Atlanta has shown itself really strong at finding players with the mental makeup/growth mindset to handle tough assignments and thrive. Let's lean into that. 

I would love a package of AJSS/Waldrep/Murphy. Wouldn’t surprise me if both AJSS and Waldrep are consensus top 50 mlb prospects by august. I also like Murphy after following him a bit in high school and it’s fun that he’s a local kid. You could do far worse than Murphy as your third piece/flier.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The problem is next year’s free agent class for bats is pretty garbage outside of the ones we can’t afford like Soto.

Who cares? This team isn’t contending until 2026, best case scenario.

[DirtySox]

While I too would prefer a position player driven deal, I feel like you need to maximize the return on Cease regardless of the prospect mix. If Atlanta is willing to overwhelm you with quality pitching prospects so be it. But then again I'm pretty into AJSS, Waldrep, and Murphy.

I also come back to Baltimore prospect hugging. There's a good chance the Orioles just aren't willing to trade the prospects that make sense in a Cease return. Even though they match up so well on paper doesn't mean Baltimore is a willing participant. It takes two to tango.

Edited December 18, 2023 by DirtySox

[Lip Man 1]

From MLB.com today:

Dylan Cease, White Sox

The most likely of this group to be moved, Cease has already drawn interest from several teams, and sources say they expect the White Sox to move their ace this offseason.

Unlike Burnes (and Shane Bieber, who we’ll get to shortly), Cease is under club control for two more seasons, making him a more attractive – and costly – trade option. Chicago surely noted that the Dodgers gave up a former Top 100 prospect in righty Ryan Pepiot and young slugging outfielder Jonny DeLuca in exchange for Glasnow and veteran outfielder Manuel Margot, though that deal was contingent upon Glasnow agreeing to an extension.

Two years of Cease should bring back a nice return for the White Sox. Cease is coming off of a subpar year by his standards, as he went 7-9 with a 4.58 ERA in 33 starts (177 innings). But he’s been healthy and averaged 176 innings per season since 2021, something appealing to teams around the league.

Of course, the Yamamoto suitors aren’t the only ones trying to trade for rotation help. Smaller-market teams such as the Reds and Orioles are looking to add starting pitching and have the prospect capital to make such a deal, but the White Sox aren’t likely to move Cease until Yamamoto (and possibly Blake Snell) are off the market.

[fathom]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The problem is next year’s free agent class for bats is pretty garbage outside of the ones we can’t afford like Soto.

2025 isn’t a contending year 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, DirtySox said:

While I too would prefer a position player driven deal, I feel like you need to maximize the return on Cease regardless of the prospect mix. If Atlanta is willing to overwhelm you with quality pitching prospects so be it. But then again I'm pretty into AJSS, Waldrep, and Murphy.

I also come back to Baltimore prospect hugging. There's a good chance the Orioles just aren't willing to trade the prospects that make sense in a Cease return.

I agree with that. The Sox are so barren throughout but I just think their starting pitching is especially weak. You add AJSS/Waldrep/Murphy to Schultz/Nastrini/Eder/Bush and now you have something to build from at least. Still not nearly good enough but hopefully you find at least two quality MLB starters out of that group and keep building.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Call me crazy, but I really don’t care what positions we get back for Cease. Just want Getz and co to be smart and maximize value. This team is so far away from actually competing (not just for the central) that trying to get prospects for certain positions is a pointless worry.
And like it or not, Robert is going to have to be traded before this rebuild of the rebuild is finished so whatever you don’t get for Cease you can address later in a Robert trade if need be.
 

If you’re being realistic, who whinin the entire organization are we confidently penciling into the 2025 lineup/pitching staff? Montgomery and ….? Obviously we have some other prospects to be hopeful of, but the void of talent is so glaring that thinking we need to focus on any certain positions is kinda crazy to me honestly. 

There should be a decent amount of talent that is ready by 2025.  Offensively, the big ones are Montgomery, Ramos, & Quero.  On the pitching side, you have Nastrini, Eder, Mena, Bush, & Cannon.  Not all these guys will be good and the ones that ultimately will be will likely have some growing pains, but along with whatever you get in a Cease trade there will be an influx come 2025.

We should also have “unprecedented financial flexibility” after this season, but next year’s class doesn’t look overly deep on the positional side and I don’t view us as a threat to sign a true mega star ever.  But maybe we can convince Jerry to go out and get Pete Alonso along with a mercenary SP.  And maybe with the right development and luck, that’s enough to win a s%*# AL Central.  But we need to get the Cease trade right and hit on multiple pieces for any chance of that or more likely a competitive 2026 to happen.

[bmags]

I'm glad we've introduced AJSS as an acronym we all understand because I straight up cannot ever remember the name after the hyphen despite googling it 20 times. Definitely smith-schuster ruined this guys name forever.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Who cares? This team isn’t contending until 2026, best case scenario.

Sure, but can’t assume you can solve all your holes in free agency in one off-season.  Need to start supplementing a year early IMO.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't think that's the longterm vision of the team.  I think this is a one year snap back for things that were so grossly ignored for so long.  They're going to add power hitters but it's going to take a little time.  This team is way too terrible to fix in one off season.

How do they add power hitters ? As of now they have 
Cease and Robert to trade. Many on the board want only prospects and don't want to find a guy with less control who could increase in value to be flipped later (Lux for example). Need value to get value.

Since the Sox have been so bad at drafting and especially development ,getting guys close to the majors or guys with 3-5 years of control keeps the Sox out of the full development process. Higher floors means more certainty. With the way the rebuild core performed should remind us that the Sox are not the Dodgers when it comes to helping prospects reach a higher level of performance.

If Getz made an announcement that the Sox are fully committed to developing youth and are revamping and hiring top people to that end and was willing to go into details to support that kind of announcement, that would be the best news the fans could possibly get this off season.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

2025 isn’t a contending year 

I agree, but if think you can solve all your holes in one off-season, you’re going to wind up short come 2026.  Need to start supplementing next off-season IMO.

[poppysox]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sure, but can’t assume you can solve all your holes in free agency in one off-season.  Need to start supplementing a year early IMO.

I think we will be much better than people think...but that's just me.  Cease brings us that long lost RF bat and a couple plus arms.  We were picked to win the division last year.  Not having Grandal, Anderson, and that whole group of underperforming bullpen arms is a big plus.  Moncada and Benintendi need to be reasonably healthy along with Eloy.  Yeah...things need to break well but that's baseball.

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Couldn’t agree more with you, but we know the Sox tend to get tunnel vision with their decision making.  They want to play like the Royals of the past with speed and defense, which is a huge mistake IMO.

 

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't think that's the longterm vision of the team.  I think this is a one year snap back for things that were so grossly ignored for so long.  They're going to add power hitters but it's going to take a little time.  This team is way too terrible to fix in one off season.

I think it's a short-term fix too. They want to play really good defense next year if they're going to be bad. It helps the endless amounts of young starting pitchers who will make cameos. They don't want to play "small ball" long-term. Nobody actually wants to do that. Power is just expensive to acquire. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t buy yet that Getz wants to be a small ball club.  That being said, I do think he is going to place a much stronger emphasis on athleticism, speed, & defense than Hahn ever did.  However, that’s a very low bar to cross given Hahn didn’t really give a s%*# about any of those things when team building.

The reality is we need to develop an offense based on OBP & power.  We can’t only have four dudes capable of hitting bombs and then 75% of them being solo shots because no one is ever on base.  Unfortunately, we have very few pieces that fit that mold right now.  Montgomery, Ramos, & Quero should all help some, but we need a lot more than those guys and Robert to develop a competent offense.

When it comes to a Cease trade, get the best package of talent and don’t settle on a specific ratio of positional vs. pitching prospects.  All else being equal I’d prioritize bats and ideally an OF, but you can’t limit yourself to specific needs or you’ll likely come away with less overall talent.

There are certain things that good GM keep in mind. SS and CF. Prospects drafted or traded for that play these 2 position are usually the fastest and most athletic.

That means they can transition to other positions if they physically mature out of CF and SS. Compare the kids physique to his parents to get an idea of how their physique will look as they age.

I'm sure good scouts look at many indicators besides the obvious like stats, current body and temperament. Bat speed, swing path, fluidity of movement, mechanics, intelligence , humility, work ethic all mean more to some scouts than others.

It would be cool to find the scouts with good track records on picking high school,  college and international players , pick their brains and see how well they can verbalize everything they saw that maybe someone else overlooked, some intangible that they valued above all else. Maybe there's a book out there already about it.

 

[ptatc]

52 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sure, but can’t assume you can solve all your holes in free agency in one off-season.  Need to start supplementing a year early IMO.

Agreed. They should add when there is availability. They can't assume who will be available in the coming off seasons. 

[Dick Allen]

With their draft pick being 10 at best in 2025, they need to do more than a regular rebuilding team would do this offseason. It wouldn’t kill them to win 75 games.