Cease To Padres per Passan

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

13 minutes ago, ptatc said:

How will they get legit pitching if they don't get in this deal? 

Acquiring pitching is looking really expensive with long term deals. This also comes with a higher injury and bust rate. 

Agree 100%. This is the only way for the Sox to acquire quality starting pitching - via trade and draft. They are a complete non-factor for the top 7 FA arms every winter.

[hogan873]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Agree 100%. This is the only way for the Sox to acquire quality starting pitching - via trade and draft. They are a complete non-factor for the top 7 FA arms every winter.

What's frustrating is most teams are non-factors for the top free agents every year.  I don't know if a salary floor and cap fixes that, but this s%*# just gets old year after year.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

What's frustrating is most teams are non-factors for the top free agents every year.  I don't know if a salary floor and cap fixes that, but this s%*# just gets old year after year.

Very true, it’s not just the Sox

[SoCalChiSox]

49 minutes ago, ptatc said:

How will they get legit pitching if they don't get in this deal? 

Acquiring pitching is looking really expensive with long term deals. This also comes with a higher injury and bust rate. 

We acquired Nastrini, Eder, Bush, Soroka, Shuster, Fedde (who Bannister is claiming is a stud now) and have a potential ace in our system in Schultz and a guy in Mena that should be able to hold down a rotation spot soon. Getz also presumably got JR to OK a good chunk of money to bring Bannister in to develop pitchers well.

If you're saying we can only get good results by having elite talent then why is Bannister here? 

If his job isnt to turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad shouldnt his job be at least to turn pitchers with fairly decent pedigrees into fairly useful pitchers?

Don't you think that maybe kind of sort of after addressing the position a half dozen fucking times maybe we should focus on fearsome left handed bats like maybe I dunno at least one or two fucking times? 

But maybe Getz has that same fetish that Hahn had whereby he seemingly got off on watching us have our nutsacks go thru a meat grinder against any semi decent RHP. There's alot of folks who get pleasure from pain and maybe that explains our seeming allergy to savagery. Maybe KW, RH and CG all got together in a stadium suite for a group circle jerk everytime we played Cleveland the last few years so they could enjoy watching us score a grand total of like 5 runs in the whole fucking series. 

Get some fucking savages already. 

I'm sick and tired of this pitching s%*#. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

We acquired Nastrini, Eder, Bush, Soroka, Shuster, Fedde (who Bannister is claiming is a stud now) and have a potential ace I'm our system in Schultz and a guy in Mena that should be able to hold down a rotation spot soon. Getz also presumably got JR to OK a good chunk of money to bring Bannister in to develop pitchers well.

If you're saying we can only get good results by having elite talent then why is Bannister here? 

If his job isnt to turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad shouldnt his job be at least to turn pitchers with fairly decent pedigrees into fairly useful pitchers?

Don't you think that maybe kind of sort of after addressing the position a half dozen fucking times maybe we should focus on fearsome left handed bats like maybe I dunno at least one or two fucking times? 

But maybe Getz has that same fetish that Hahn had whereby he seemingly got off on watching us have our nutsacks go thru a meat grinder against any semi decent RHP. There's alot of folks who get pleasure from pain and maybe that explains our seeming allergy to savagery. Maybe KW, RH and CG all got together in a stadium suite for a group circle jerk everything we played Cleveland the last few years so they could enjoy watching us score a grand total of like 5 runs in the whole fucking series. 

Get some fucking savages already. 

I'm sick and tired of this pitching s%*#. 

A few of those names are not long term options. We’re not making this trade solely to fill holes for the next year or two.

[poppysox]

44 minutes ago, ptatc said:

How will they get legit pitching if they don't get in this deal? 

Acquiring pitching is looking really expensive with long term deals. This also comes with a higher injury and bust rate. 

Apparently right fielders are equally hard to find.

[bmags]

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why is prospect hugging better than competing?

The best ones do both ?

[SoCalChiSox]

16 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

A few of those names are not long term options. We’re not making this trade solely to fill holes for the next year or two.

We do not need them to turn every dude into Greg Maddux. They need to turn like 2-3 of the acquired guys into useful starters...not aces...not 2s...useful 3s and solid 4s. Schultz is prolly your ace and yes they are going to have to spend some money too at some point in FA on a starter or two. If they are going to have like 120m payrolls for 2 years in a row, why shouldn't we be able to supplement with some FA after that?

And I was told that they got a "steal" in Grant Taylor because of his injury and that Fedde was a new man after adding new pitches to his arsenal.

So if they are gonna run their mouths that they outsmarted everyone then fine prove it, sleep in the bed you made, show me you outsmarted everyone. 

If they did, then there should be no objection to spending the capital we get from Cease on LHS, right?

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by SoCalChiSox

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

We do not need them to turn every dude into Greg Maddux. They need to turn like 2-3 of the acquired guys into useful starters...not aces...not 2s...useful 3s and solid 4s. Schultz is prolly your ace and yes they are going to have to spend some money too at some point in FA on a starter or two. If they are going to have like 120m payrolls for 2 years in a row, why shouldn't we be able to supplement with some FA after that?

And I was told that they got a "steal" in Grant Taylor because of his injury and that Fedde was a new man after adding new pitches to his arsenal.

So if they are gonna run their mouths that they outsmarted everyone then fine prove it, sleep in the bed you made, show me you outsmarted everyone. 

If they did, then there should be no objection to spending the capital we get from Cease on LHS, right?

 

 

If you’re not a contender to sign top FA arms like the Sox, you need 8-10 legit starting pitching prospects to maybe turn into 2 or 3 high quality mlb starters. Sox aren’t even close.

In 2018 the Sox had Giolito, Dunning, López, Kopech, Cease, and others all as prospects and it still wasn’t enough to fill out a quality rotation for more than 1.5 seasons.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If you’re not a contender to sign top FA arms like the Sox, you need 8-10 legit starting pitching prospects to maybe turn into 2 or 3 high quality mlb starters. Sox aren’t even close.

In 2018 the Sox had Giolito, Dunning, López, Kopech, Cease, and others all as prospects and it still wasn’t enough to fill out a quality rotation for more than 1.5 seasons.

In 2018 the Sox had the luxury of having several high end prospect bats ready to go for when the "window" subsequently opened and there was (at least on the surface) an actual viable plan for an actual functioning offense.

Right now we have very little for our offense.

If you are saying let's accept one prime LH savage and one prime pitcher in the trade, depending on who the savage is I'm kind of sort of ok with it even though in reality it sucks, but if someone is saying let's accept two pitchers as the primary pieces, I want someone to articulate for me what is the plan to acquire multiple high end prospect bats when 1) we likely will not have anything super valuable at the deadline to trade 2) Robert isn't getting moved, 3) we aren't spending any money for two years, and 4) "were just going to play Limp Dick Ball instead" is an unacceptable alternative.

In light of the above 4 points, what is the viable plan to get the bats?

I'll hang up and listen.

 

 

[HoosierSox]

4 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Sigh.....this is frustrating. We only have one bullet left in our gun here, so if we blow it on pitching (again) then whats the FOs plan to get legit bats? I know spending money this offseason and next offseason isnt the answer and I know it's unlikely we will have any super useful trade chips that we can afford to unload next year  so that isnt the answer either......so whats the answer? 

There is one more bullet that nobody wants to trade but should be considered. Luis Robert.

[MEANS]

57 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

We acquired Nastrini, Eder, Bush, Soroka, Shuster, Fedde (who Bannister is claiming is a stud now) and have a potential ace in our system in Schultz and a guy in Mena that should be able to hold down a rotation spot soon. Getz also presumably got JR to OK a good chunk of money to bring Bannister in to develop pitchers well.

If you're saying we can only get good results by having elite talent then why is Bannister here? 

If his job isnt to turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad shouldnt his job be at least to turn pitchers with fairly decent pedigrees into fairly useful pitchers?

Don't you think that maybe kind of sort of after addressing the position a half dozen fucking times maybe we should focus on fearsome left handed bats like maybe I dunno at least one or two fucking times? 

But maybe Getz has that same fetish that Hahn had whereby he seemingly got off on watching us have our nutsacks go thru a meat grinder against any semi decent RHP. There's alot of folks who get pleasure from pain and maybe that explains our seeming allergy to savagery. Maybe KW, RH and CG all got together in a stadium suite for a group circle jerk everytime we played Cleveland the last few years so they could enjoy watching us score a grand total of like 5 runs in the whole fucking series. 

Get some fucking savages already. 

I'm sick and tired of this pitching s%*#. 

This right here…enough with the pitching prospect talk- WE NEED BATS!

[ptatc]

59 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

We acquired Nastrini, Eder, Bush, Soroka, Shuster, Fedde (who Bannister is claiming is a stud now) and have a potential ace in our system in Schultz and a guy in Mena that should be able to hold down a rotation spot soon. Getz also presumably got JR to OK a good chunk of money to bring Bannister in to develop pitchers well.

If you're saying we can only get good results by having elite talent then why is Bannister here? 

If his job isnt to turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad shouldnt his job be at least to turn pitchers with fairly decent pedigrees into fairly useful pitchers?

Don't you think that maybe kind of sort of after addressing the position a half dozen fucking times maybe we should focus on fearsome left handed bats like maybe I dunno at least one or two fucking times? 

But maybe Getz has that same fetish that Hahn had whereby he seemingly got off on watching us have our nutsacks go thru a meat grinder against any semi decent RHP. There's alot of folks who get pleasure from pain and maybe that explains our seeming allergy to savagery. Maybe KW, RH and CG all got together in a stadium suite for a group circle jerk everytime we played Cleveland the last few years so they could enjoy watching us score a grand total of like 5 runs in the whole fucking series. 

Get some fucking savages already. 

I'm sick and tired of this pitching s%*#. 

Do any of those come to the level of Montgomery, Ramos or even Vera's? 

They need both but as far as prospect ranking the Sox are sitting better with hitting than pitching. 

And pitching wins in the playoffs. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Do any of those come to the level of Montgomery, Ramos or even Vera's? 

They need both but as far as prospect ranking the Sox are sitting better with hitting than pitching. 

And pitching wins in the playoffs. 

I mentioned in a post above that the Sox had 5 top 100 mlb pitching prospects during the last rebuild. They currently have 1. Maybe Nastrini or one of these other guys gets there too but it’s not nearly enough. Take Atlanta’s pitching prospects for Cease, draft a pitcher first round in 24, and then maybe they have a good foundation to build from on the pitching side.

[Chicago White Sox]

If a pitching prospect is one of the headliners of a Cease trade, then that player better have legit TOR potential.  That’s where the Braves do make some sense as AJSS actually fits the billing and is major league ready to boot.  But I’d hate to use Cease to acquire more guys with MOR ceilings.  We have tons of those guys already in the system and while you can never have enough pitching, the lack of quality positional prospects is terrifying.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Do any of those come to the level of Montgomery, Ramos or even Vera's? 

They need both but as far as prospect ranking the Sox are sitting better with hitting than pitching. 

And pitching wins in the playoffs. 

I’d put at least seven or eight pitching prospects ahead of Veras, who is well below Ramos & Quero who are well below Montgomery.  The system is much deeper in pitching than it is positional prospects IMO.

[Snowy Demon]

One of the worst cliches in baseball: "You can never have too much pitching."  Definite false statement.  You can never have too much "good" pitching.  

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

One of the worst cliches in baseball: "You can never have too much pitching."  Definite false statement.  You can never have too much "good" pitching.  

I’d disagree.  The Sox are the perfect example of a team with no depth and can’t even luck into replacement level pitching when injuries hit in some years

[Snowy Demon]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d disagree.  The Sox are the perfect example of a team with no depth and can’t even luck into replacement level pitching when injuries hit in some years

You can have too much bad or mediocre pitching.  Many teams make mistakes in acquiring and wasting resources because "you can never have too much pitching".  Many teams overpay for them.  If you cannot acquire good pitching, then walk away.  Overpaying for bad pitching set the teams back greatly.  

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Snowy Demon said:

You can have too much bad or mediocre pitching.  Many teams make mistakes in acquiring and wasting resources because "you can never have too much pitching".  Many teams overpay for them.  If you cannot acquire good pitching, then walk away.  Overpaying for bad pitching set the teams back greatly.  

We’re talking about having enough pitching in your system, so I’m not sure how any of this applies.  No one is saying let’s go sign a bunch of relievers or #5 type starters to multi-years contracts or anything like that.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Very true, it’s not just the Sox

 

1 hour ago, hogan873 said:

What's frustrating is most teams are non-factors for the top free agents every year.  I don't know if a salary floor and cap fixes that, but this s%*# just gets old year after year.

Literally 20 of the 30 teams aren't players for top tier FAs.  Baseball's system is broken.  Its a game where you can't really buy a championship because well - baseball.  Any major league team can win a 3, 5, 7 game series against any other team.  But you can certainly buy  yourself a much higher likelihood of a playoff bid. 

Its super lame seeing the same 5 teams acquire all the elite FAs with the other 5 occasionally nabbing one.   

[ptatc]

13 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

You can have too much bad or mediocre pitching.  Many teams make mistakes in acquiring and wasting resources because "you can never have too much pitching".  Many teams overpay for them.  If you cannot acquire good pitching, then walk away.  Overpaying for bad pitching set the teams back greatly.  

I'm not sure teams mas can even have too much mediocre pitching with the pitching in the league now. 

But the point is valid. They need to have at least one TOR prospects in the deal. 

[Whisox05]

 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said:

In 2018 the Sox had the luxury of having several high end prospect bats ready to go for when the "window" subsequently opened and there was (at least on the surface) an actual viable plan for an actual functioning offense.

Right now we have very little for our offense.

If you are saying let's accept one prime LH savage and one prime pitcher in the trade, depending on who the savage is I'm kind of sort of ok with it even though in reality it sucks, but if someone is saying let's accept two pitchers as the primary pieces, I want someone to articulate for me what is the plan to acquire multiple high end prospect bats when 1) we likely will not have anything super valuable at the deadline to trade 2) Robert isn't getting moved, 3) we aren't spending any money for two years, and 4) "were just going to play Limp Dick Ball instead" is an unacceptable alternative.

In light of the above 4 points, what is the viable plan to get the bats?

I'll hang up and listen.

 

 

Oh you mean acquire more savages like Eloy and Moncada (both top 10 mlb prospects when the Sox traded for them)? At least the Sox did well with the pitching prospects. Cease and Giolito were quality starters with the Sox, López turned into a solid receiver, and Dunning turned into Lynn who was a quality starter up until last season. The only one that really went bust of those 5 was Kopech and I still think he’d be a solid reliever if they gave up starting him.

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Whisox05 said:

 

Somewhere, Balta is in shambles.