Bummer to ATL

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

I’m guessing it’s because Shuster and Shewmake were relatively recent first round picks.  But Shewmake is 26 already and can’t hit and Shuster is a AAAA arm. The real hope to get value out of this is having Soroka revert to 2019 form and then flip him.

I would have thought that Soroka had more control and looking at his career stats you would think so but he missed 2 full years and is a free agent after the 2024 season.

[whitesoxfan99]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I would have thought that Soroka had more control and looking at his career stats you would think so but he missed 2 full years and is a free agent after the 2024 season.

Yep. Hope he rebounds in his second year back from missing so much time and flip him.  Don’t see any actual upside to the rest of the pieces (well the one A ball guy is a lotto ticket, maybe something there down the road). 

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I get this, but aaron bummer sucks. I'll take 4 guys who likely suck for 1 because the math is in my favor on maybe one not sucking.

I’m not expecting a lot for bummer, but nearly all these guys are out of time. Their pedigrees mean as much as Hahn trading for former top 100 guys.

If Shewmake struggles in AAA as a 26 year old, he has no value.

Schuster, also 25, I’ll say this. His slider maybe means he can turn into a bullpen piece with control.

But I feel like over the years we’ve taken on X number of former Atlanta top prospect pitchers and they’ve never been wrong that a guy is washed.

I mean a handful of the Aball pitchers I’d like more from a profile perspective.

Id non tender Lopez. He’s not gonna get $4 million.

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, JoeC said:

Soroka is intriguing. Supposed to be a good hockey player.

This is the type of roster construction i honestly was hoping for. Take some flyers out on guys with previously high upside and fill up your minor league pipeline while jettisoning some "known" pieces that are essentially worthless to a team like the 2024 Sox.

On the surface, i like this trade. Let's see how they Sox it up.

It;s just  a different kind of s%*# and forgetting that s%*# still stinks.

I guess this is a stop gap not to drain Charlotte's future DFA roster

[caulfield12]

The five pieces the Braves gave up will bring a lot of name recognition, but I’m not sure any of them had a role in Atlanta next season besides Lopez. The trade opens up three spots on the club’s 40-man roster, which stands at 37.

Michael Soroka will always be cheered for in Atlanta, but he was out of minor league options and was likely to be non-tendered on Friday given his extensive injury history. Michael will now have the opportunity to pitch every fifth day with the White Sox and hopefully regain the command that made him a special pitcher early in his career. Go get ‘em, kid.

Jared Shuster showed in a couple of brief stints this past season that he lacks the stuff to get big league hitters out with any kind of consistency. After three years in Double-A and Triple-A, it’s safe to say the Braves aren’t taking a risk in moving on from the 25-year-old lefty. The same can be echoed for Braden Shewmake, who will turn 26 next month and posted a .705 OPS in Gwinnett this past season. 

The one surprise of the deal is Nicky Lopez, who is expected to earn $4 million in arbitration next season as the club’s primary backup infielder. Lopez is superb with the glove and runs the bases well, but he would rarely play in 2024 short of an injury to Albies or Arcia. Trading away Lopez does mean the club will need to add a utility infielder this winter.

 

https://www.batterypower.com/2023/11/17/23965055/braves-trade-aaron-bummer-white-sox-michael-soroka

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I’m not expecting a lot for bummer, but nearly all these guys are out of time. Their pedigrees mean as much as Hahn trading for former top 100 guys.

If Shewmake struggles in AAA as a 26 year old, he has no value.

Schuster, also 25, I’ll say this. His slider maybe means he can turn into a bullpen piece with control.

But I feel like over the years we’ve taken on X number of former Atlanta top prospect pitchers and they’ve never been wrong that a guy is washed.

I mean a handful of the Aball pitchers I’d like more from a profile perspective.

Id non tender Lopez. He’s not gonna get $4 million.

Nope. Grifol and Getz needed to fulfill the prophecy. Salvador Perez is next.

[Bob Sacamano]

Man, it really sucks knowing this team is likely going to be worse than last season and they won’t even be able to pick as high.

[caulfield12]

The move tells me that AA obviously has more to come, but he had to thin our 40 Man first. Trading any of these guys individually or in piecemeal deals would have returned nothing of any value. And what team would see any value in those 5 guys other than the Sox who likely utilize all of them this year. 

 

We traded five pennies for a nickel.

Not at all. 

Eh, it’s more like we traded a penny and some pocket lint for another penny and the room to acquire other coins, which may or may not also be pennies.

 

It’s not a good thing when you’re (Braves) giving up your 2019 and 2020 first round picks (make that three firsts in total). For a $5 million non-closer reliever. When you draft those guys you’re hoping they either become contributors, or trade value for a major piece. Yes, it was long enough ago that they shouldn’t merit special treatment due to their draft status, but it’s a sad admission nonetheless that two full years of #1 picks didn’t work out, even if they were both a little bit “let’s bank some overslot money” picks. 

Also, it can simultaneously be time to move on from Soroka while also being kinda sad that it’s happening. For his sake, I hope he makes this trade look like an incredibly bad decision. But it can still be the right choice. And it’s a choice that was made before this trade, AA had obviously decided he was going to be non-tendered and Soroka wasn’t going to accept the assignment

Edited November 17, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Man, it really sucks knowing this team is likely going to be worse than last season and they won’t even be able to pick as high.

And the wet blanket first half of a season from our most recent first rounder…

[Springfield Soxfan]

Bummer will be a 2024 NL All Star

[Quin]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

I’m surprised how positive people are on this trade. This is a bunch of trash with limited upside. I like the single A guy I guess. 
 

Reminds me of acquiring 4 Ryan cordells 

Well...

• People despise Bummer, who will probably be amazing with a good defense behind him. The Sox set him up to fail.
• Sox painfully need a starter so even though Soroka's last good, fully healthy season was Moncada's last good, fully healthy season, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

After that, yeah, it's just stuff. Shuster feels more like a "throw a starter against a wall and see if he sticks" pitcher. Lopez is purely a meme acquisition. I guess Shewmake has a glove and people will get excited when a glove-first lefty hits in Charlotte only for it to be fool's gold.

[MiddleCoastBias]

55 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

 

It’s not a good thing when you’re (Braves) giving up your 2019 and 2020 first round picks (make that three firsts in total). For a $5 million non-closer reliever. When you draft those guys you’re hoping they either become contributors, or trade value for a major piece. Yes, it was long enough ago that they shouldn’t merit special treatment due to their draft status, but it’s a sad admission nonetheless that two full years of #1 picks didn’t work out, even if they were both a little bit “let’s bank some overslot money” picks. 

 

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

2017: Jake Burger #1, traded for nothing. Gavin sheets #2, possibly DFA'd this week

2018: Madrigal #1, traded a piece that actively set us backward. Steele Walker #2, fart noise

2019: Vaughn #1, plenty of people calling to trade him. Matthew Thompson #2, going nowhere fast

2020: Crochet #1, huge ??. Kelley #2, going nowhere.

I'll take the Braves' draft failings with their perennial World Series aspirations over our draft failings and *gestures at steaming pile of s%*#*

[Dick Allen]

I don’t know what else the Sox could have received for Bummer. If someone could get him to throw a few more strikes, he might be really good again, but it was time the Sox unloaded him. Soroka is a guy who if he was non tendered I would have loved the Sox to take a shot. Not a fan of Lopez but at least he can catch the ball. Hopefully a couple of these guys work out.

[bmags]

37 minutes ago, Quin said:

Well...

• People despise Bummer, who will probably be amazing with a good defense behind him. The Sox set him up to fail.
• Sox painfully need a starter so even though Soroka's last good, fully healthy season was Moncada's last good, fully healthy season, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

After that, yeah, it's just stuff. Shuster feels more like a "throw a starter against a wall and see if he sticks" pitcher. Lopez is purely a meme acquisition. I guess Shewmake has a glove and people will get excited when a glove-first lefty hits in Charlotte only for it to be fool's gold.

Soroka is the least interesting piece to me. Guy is washed. Touissant is more likely to be a good started next year.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Soroka is the least interesting piece to me. Guy is washed. Touissant is more likely to be a good started next year.

Yeah, and there really isn't much long-term upside. I just don't see him pitching well enough to get anything worth while back in July either.

[Kyyle23]

16 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

2017: Jake Burger #1, traded for nothing. Gavin sheets #2, possibly DFA'd this week

2018: Madrigal #1, traded a piece that actively set us backward. Steele Walker #2, fart noise

2019: Vaughn #1, plenty of people calling to trade him. Matthew Thompson #2, going nowhere fast

2020: Crochet #1, huge ??. Kelley #2, going nowhere.

I'll take the Braves' draft failings with their perennial World Series aspirations over our draft failings and *gestures at steaming pile of s%*#*

The Braves move on when things go wrong.  They don’t double down

[Harry Chappas]

This is churnign the 40 man which is what is needed.  I like that Getz realizes they need organizational depth and this adds it.

Will any of these guys pan out, who knows.  

We all know Bummer will be pitching next fall and dominate. 

This trade was Bummer for Soroka.  The upside on Soroka is his major injury was not to his arm and Burger came back from it BUT its an ankle and pitching plays differently on that then 3B/DH.  The Braves don't have the time for him to regain his ability.

 

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Soroka is the least interesting piece to me. Guy is washed. Touissant is more likely to be a good started next year.

But instead of "this guy's a Bummer!" people now get to say "he sure does suck-roka!"

Think of the creativity!

(I'm probably just foolishly grateful to have any warm body because my soul is battered and bruised by Jerry)

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Harry Chappas said:

This is churnign the 40 man which is what is needed.  I like that Getz realizes they need organizational depth and this adds it.

Will any of these guys pan out, who knows.  

We all know Bummer will be pitching next fall and dominate. 

This trade was Bummer for Soroka.  The upside on Soroka is his major injury was not to his arm and Burger came back from it BUT its an ankle and pitching plays differently on that then 3B/DH.  The Braves don't have the time for him to regain his ability.

 

He has 1 year of control remaining.

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah, and there really isn't much long-term upside. I just don't see him pitching well enough to get anything worth while back in July either.

The on-field results probably matter less in 2024 than filling out the roster with cheap warm bodies. They have to keep up appearances after all. 

[Dick Allen]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

Soroka is the least interesting piece to me. Guy is washed. Touissant is more likely to be a good started next year.

To me he is by far the most interesting. Still young, had the two Achilles injuries like Burger. Was a top 25 prospect before he had a great season, then got hurt. Was pretty good in AAA last season. 

[Kyyle23]

Dumpster diving is not the same as roster churning.  

[DFAthewave69420]

The Braves have so much depth they can trade their scraps who will be starters elsewhere and the Braves don't even bat an eye doing it.

[South Side Hit Men]

50 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

The trash of a team like the Braves is better than our trash. I’ll take it.

Let's face it, trash from the top dozen teams are better than most current rostered White Sox pitchers and at least a few current projected starting position players.

Soroka has the second highest projected 2024 Pitcher fWAR (Depth Charts) Projection per Fangraphs.

Using Fangraph's "rule of thumb" WAR averages for position players and starting pitchers:

Projected White Sox fWAR:

Position Player (Handed) (Projected Games/Starts fWAR Fangraph fWAR translation) Hitters Projected OBP SLG / Pitchers Projected FIP

1. LF Andrew Benintendi (L) (139 G 1.4 role player) .339 .391
2. CF Luis Robert Junior (R) (149 G 3.4 good player) .318 .488
3. DH Eloy Jimenez (R) (141 G 2.2 solid starter) .334 .486
4. 3B Yoan Moncada (S) (144 G 2.2 solid starter) .325 .407
5. 1B Andrew Vaughn (R) (147 G 1.8 role player) .324 .454
6. RF Oscar Colas (L) (97 G 0.3 scrub) .301 .411
7. C Carlos Perez (R) (57 G 0.3 scrub) .289 .388
8. 2B Nicky Lopez (L) (83 G 0.5 scrub) .319 .325
9. SS Lenyn Sosa (R) (45 G 0.4 scrub) .285 .410

• C K. Lee (76 G -0.1 AAA)
• DH 1B OF G. Sheets (76 G 0.3 scrub)
• INF/OF R. Gonzalez (66 G 0.3 scrub)
• INF/OF Z. Remillard (65 G 0.0 AAA)

1. Dylan Cease (31 GS 2.7 solid starter) 4.30
2. Michael Soroka (23 GS 1.3 role player) 4.68
3. Touki Toussaint (24 GS 0.7 scrub) 5.18
4. Michael Kopech (26 GS 0.6 scrub) 5.43
5. Nick Nastrini (18 GS 0.5 scrub) 5.31
6. Jared Shuster (18 GS 0.3 scrub) 5.46
7. Jake Eder (11 GS 0.3 scrub) 5.33

1. Gregory Santos (64 G 1.1) 4.03
2. Garrett Crochet (63 G 0.7) 4.04
3. Deivi Garcia (63 G -0.5) 5.41
4. Tanner Banks (62 G 0.3) 4.37
5. Jimmy Lambert (61 G -0.1) 5.13
6. Sammy Peralta (58 G 0.0) 4.77
7. Lane Ramsey (56 G -0.1) 5.30
8. Alex Speas (51 G 0.0) 4.54
9. Yohan Ramirez (44 G 0.0) 4.76
10. Declan Cronin (38 G -0.1) 5.10
11. Luis Patino (36 G 0.0) 5.29

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

The Braves have so much depth they can trade their scraps who will be starters elsewhere and the Braves don't even bat an eye doing it.

At least 2 of those guys were going to be non-tendered today.