Soxfest Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. I'm not going to daily b**** and moan about him - I wish him every success - but I just want to be on record, especially after reading some of his quotes as posted here, that I am not happy about this at all. This is terrible, lets hire the cheapest minority we can find contest. Guillen is not respected and has NEVER been even considered by any other team. What is this, lets hire a Florida coach after they win the world series pipeline (ie Jm now OG). This is simple economics OG will you work for s***, yes you are hired. Guillen is a terrible hire for this particular team. Typical White Sox cheap, cheap and cheapest, there is NO buzz about this anywhere from Sox fans we deserve alot better. Welcome to dissapointment 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. I'm not going to daily b**** and moan about him - I wish him every success - but I just want to be on record, especially after reading some of his quotes as posted here, that I am not happy about this at all. This is terrible, lets hire the cheapest minority we can find contest. Guillen is not respected and has NEVER been even considered by any other team. What is this, lets hire a Florida coach after they win the world series pipeline (ie Jm now OG). This is simple economics OG will you work for s***, yes you are hired. Guillen is a terrible hire for this particular team. Typical White Sox cheap, cheap and cheapest, there is NO buzz about this anywhere from Sox fans we deserve alot better. Welcome to dissapointment 101. Was there any buzz on any other potential coaches? No There is no buzz about Guillen from fans- false We deserve? What is that supposed to mean. Guillen is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. I'm not going to daily b**** and moan about him - I wish him every success - but I just want to be on record, especially after reading some of his quotes as posted here, that I am not happy about this at all. This is terrible, lets hire the cheapest minority we can find contest. Guillen is not respected and has NEVER been even considered by any other team. What is this, lets hire a Florida coach after they win the world series pipeline (ie Jm now OG). This is simple economics OG will you work for s***, yes you are hired. Guillen is a terrible hire for this particular team. Typical White Sox cheap, cheap and cheapest, there is NO buzz about this anywhere from Sox fans we deserve alot better. Welcome to dissapointment 101. Was there any buzz on any other potential coaches? No There is no buzz about Guillen from fans- false We deserve? What is that supposed to mean. Guillen is fine. Yeah it only been 80 some years , you got 80 more until Sox win, Guillen may be good enough for you but not me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. I'm not going to daily b**** and moan about him - I wish him every success - but I just want to be on record, especially after reading some of his quotes as posted here, that I am not happy about this at all. This is terrible, lets hire the cheapest minority we can find contest. Guillen is not respected and has NEVER been even considered by any other team. What is this, lets hire a Florida coach after they win the world series pipeline (ie Jm now OG). This is simple economics OG will you work for s***, yes you are hired. Guillen is a terrible hire for this particular team. Typical White Sox cheap, cheap and cheapest, there is NO buzz about this anywhere from Sox fans we deserve alot better. Welcome to dissapointment 101. Well, Casey Stengell and Connie Mack aren't available. Personally, I like the hire. It is definitely an upgrade and gives the Sox what they were lacking in a manager. And, like it or not, economics is a part of the picture. Would I rather give money to a manager or a #2 pitcher? The pitcher, everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. I'm not going to daily b**** and moan about him - I wish him every success - but I just want to be on record, especially after reading some of his quotes as posted here, that I am not happy about this at all. This is terrible, lets hire the cheapest minority we can find contest. Guillen is not respected and has NEVER been even considered by any other team. What is this, lets hire a Florida coach after they win the world series pipeline (ie Jm now OG). This is simple economics OG will you work for s***, yes you are hired. Guillen is a terrible hire for this particular team. Typical White Sox cheap, cheap and cheapest, there is NO buzz about this anywhere from Sox fans we deserve alot better. Welcome to dissapointment 101. Well, Casey Stengell and Connie Mack aren't available. Personally, I like the hire. It is definitely an upgrade and gives the Sox what they were lacking in a manager. And, like it or not, economics is a part of the picture. Would I rather give money to a manager or a #2 pitcher? The pitcher, everytime. I would not count on KW to spend the money on a #2 pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scwible Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 QUOTE (FanOf14 @ Nov 3 2003, 05:09 PM) QUOTE (cwsox @ Nov 3 2003, 03:25 PM) a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. Is there a link to this quote? I've heard that this was half the quote, that the entire quote actually was, "The players don't owe anything to the fans but 100%." Does anyone know where I could find a link to the Q&A this quote comes from? I've tried searching via google, but couldn't find anything. I am just curious to see the whole Q and the whole reply. Thanks! there was no "but 100%" on that for the original quote. CK remembers this as vividly as I do sop maybe he can add something here. I gotta give ome backing to the fact that the media and alot of people have forgoten the 100% part. I know there was more to the quote than just saying they don't need the fans. The Score had the whole quote on a week or two ago and it did explain what he said. It wasn't a direct hit saying that they didn't need the fans, it was saying that we own them nothin but to play 100% everygame or something to that effect. Thats why people remeber the 100% part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLAK Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this a lot of big talk - yeah, lets pound on chests and thump the air - from a guy who never laid off a pitch and once said he didn't need the fans. I have the same feeling about Ozzie the clown. I just can't believe this guy is going to be taken seriously. KW alluded to the issue in his interview this afternoon on ESPN, saying he discussed Guillen's 'maturity' with JR. Although KW came away satisfied I know I saw Bozo in the NLCS faking a mitt after his pitcher lost the handle on a ball and it sailed into the dugout. Maturity? He talked very big in his introductory press conference. Things like, if players don't advance a runner from second base he'll bunt them next time and if they don't like it they can have their agent talk to Kenny and get traded out of town. I've never worked for a guy who made big threats and actually did it. The guys who actually did it never said nothing until goodbye. I suspect Ozzie's all smoke. I hope to be wrong, but I just can't picture these words coming out of Al Lopez, Tony LaRussa or Bob Lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 It's obvious JR wasn't pleased by some of the stuff the players got away with during the final two years of the Manuel Era. Spring training was supposed to be more focused last year. It wasn't -- and this team came out and rolled over in April. If Ozzie promised more attention to fundamentals, he'll have to deliver. All season everybody on this board b****ed because this team was terrible at bunting, terrible at advancing runners, terrible at hitting in double plays and terrible at throwing to the wrong bases. I believe people called it Corpse Ball -- a dead-ass approach we suffered through for the first 2 1/2 months of the season. Now Ozzie arrives, promising to work on those things and convince everybody to play with enthusiasm and a ton of people are b****ing. NOT ME!!!! There are no guarantees Ozzie will work out. But the changes he is talking about implementing are changes that need to be made. Think back to the baseball we saw last April and May before you complain!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 I hope to be wrong, but I just can't picture these words coming out of Al Lopez, Tony LaRussa or Bob Lemon. very, very true. And to the question about Ozzie's quote: there was no 100% on it. That is afterards spin addition and simply not true. If people are happy with Ozzie, be happy with the real Ozzie who could be rude to fans and said things that weren't smart. I was a big Ozzie fan for most of the time that he was a player but his act wore thin over the years. Today's big talk press conferance was totally unimpressive. He may have lost control of the team today. Did the Sox need more passion in 2003? Maybe. Then we could have hired Beyonce Knowles. she'd supply some passion and energy. Just because Ozzie is wired up doesn't mean he can supply what we need. And the team that won the 2003 World Series did not have a big talking manager, but someone who obviously could motivate. If I were an employee and Ozzie was being made my supervisor and said the things on his first day that Ozzie said today, I'd be rolling my eyes saying this jerk will never last but it will be unpleasant until then. I hope to be proven wrong. I make a sizable financial investment in this team every year. And right now not feeling at all good about next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Well, all the pros and cons about Ozzie Guillen have been expressed. When it comes down to it, we really do not have a clue how this is going to turn out. This is the hand we've been dealt and I know I'm going to support Ozzie until he proves to me he is either incapable or the wrong man on the wrong team at the wrong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 1. The thing about the quote - that the players don't owe the fans anything - my memory is that there was nothing else added. He said it and he has to live with it. People have added the 100 per cent effort wording, but I don't think it was there. But we all have said things we regret. 2. Regarding the title of this thread - how could anyone have liked the hiring of Gene Lamont? 3. Jeff Torborg two weeks ago raved about Ozzie's potential as a manager. Said he was gonna be the next great manager. I'm gonna go with that until Ozzie proves it wrong, over an extended period of time. 4. But Frank bunting????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 That quote was said in the heat of a labor dispute, and the guy blurted. Everybody says stuff at some point in their lives that they don't take the time to measure and consider. He's human, and he felt that way. At least for me, it's a big "so what"? Fans are more than willing to turn on players when we feel like it, and that's supposedly our right, so why do we as fans get so offended when another human being does the exact same thing? Water under my bridge... Would I have preferred Tom Kelly? Absolutely. Did they approach Tom Kelly? Apparently. Did Tom Kelly decide to remain retired? Reportedly. We move on... I like the hire for the same reasons as others who like it do - the energy, the fresh blood, the anti-Jerry. Will it result in more victories? We'll see. Not without the players to fit the system, in my opinion. It does take time to revamp the team. I realize what the more critical people will say, because I'm usually one of them. But I didn't expect JR to allow KW to acquire the guys he did last year, so I'm willing to wait and see what the front office does this offseason. Even if I wasn't willing to, I'd have to anyway, so there you have it. And WHY NOT have Thomas bunt once in a while? If he gets in one of those pop-up streaks he is prone to, maybe dropping one down to surprise the opposition isn't the worst idea in the world. Do you do it regularly? NO. But every now and again, why the hell not? Who is above playing the team game? I really hope Guillen is what this team needs badly - an excitable leader who can get the best out of his players. Time will tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The reason you don't have Frank Thomas bunt, is that there is a better chance he will walk, or get a hit than get a bunt down. Also with a man on first or second, taking the bat out of his hands is just plain dumb. Looks like Ozzie is going to ask his players to do things they are not capable of doing. Read Phil Rogers today, it will show you what a phony our new manager is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The reason you don't have Frank Thomas bunt, is that there is a better chance he will walk, or get a hit than get a bunt down. Also with a man on first or second, taking the bat out of his hands is just plain dumb. Looks like Ozzie is going to ask his players to do things they are not capable of doing. Read Phil Rogers today, it will show you what a phony our new manager is. Inexcusable. For a professional baseball player to be incapable of bunting IF the situation calls for it, is INEXCUSABLE. And it's NOT dumb to take the bat out of a hitter's hands if that hitter is struggling, or if the matchup is wrong, or for any other game-related reason. The biggest complaint about this team is that they play for the long ball. Well, that can be changed if the situation calls for it. Enough coddling of people. Not singling Thomas out here, I'm saying that ANYONE should be able to do a job if called upon, even ( ESPECIALLY ) if that job falls outside of their so-called "skill set". It's not too much to ask of a baseball player to lay down a bunt. They HAVE to play the game the right way, or they should be replaced. I just hope Guillen is given the leverage to enforce his opinions and strategies. And I think that if the players revolt on someone trying to install some fundamentals on them, that says more about the players than it would about Guillen. I'd rather not take Phil Rogers' word for it. I'll wait and see if Guillen can make this team play fundamentally sound baseball. That's all I want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Inexcusable. For a professional baseball player to be incapable of bunting IF the situation calls for it, is INEXCUSABLE. And it's NOT dumb to take the bat out of a hitter's hands if that hitter is struggling, or if the matchup is wrong, or for any other game-related reason. The biggest complaint about this team is that they play for the long ball. Well, that can be changed if the situation calls for it. Enough coddling of people. Not singling Thomas out here, I'm saying that ANYONE should be able to do a job if called upon, even ( ESPECIALLY ) if that job falls outside of their so-called "skill set". It's not too much to ask of a baseball player to lay down a bunt. They HAVE to play the game the right way, or they should be replaced. I just hope Guillen is given the leverage to enforce his opinions and strategies. And I think that if the players revolt on someone trying to install some fundamentals on them, that says more about the players than it would about Guillen. I'd rather not take Phil Rogers' word for it. I'll wait and see if Guillen can make this team play fundamentally sound baseball. That's all I want to see. We have seen many times, White Sox hitters go up to bunt, and fail. Carlos Lee time and time again comes to mind. To expect Frank and Magglio to bunt is ludicrious. Name 1 player who hits 35 homers a year and also bunts consistently. It doesn't happen. Going the other way, that is a different story. The only decent bunter the Sox had was Alomar. I agree everyone should be able to bunt, but it is simply not the case. Asking Frank or Magglio to bunt would be a huge relief to the other dugout. You don't sacrifice your best hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted November 4, 2003 Author Share Posted November 4, 2003 Link to Rogers article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ncorgbl Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 We have seen many times, White Sox hitters go up to bunt, and fail. Carlos Lee time and time again comes to mind. To expect Frank and Magglio to bunt is ludicrious. Name 1 player who hits 35 homers a year and also bunts consistently. It doesn't happen. Going the other way, that is a different story. The only decent bunter the Sox had was Alomar. I agree everyone should be able to bunt, but it is simply not the case. Asking Frank or Magglio to bunt would be a huge relief to the other dugout. You don't sacrifice your best hitters. Agreed. The manager is supposed to put his players in the best position they can to be successful. Asking Thomas to bunt is not going to be as successful a move as taking a walk, and it's still 'small ball'. Ozzie's job with the offense is not the concern, they will hit or they won't. How will he handle the pitching should be the big concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 I hope to be wrong, but I just can't picture these words coming out of Al Lopez, Tony LaRussa or Bob Lemon. very, very true. And to the question about Ozzie's quote: there was no 100% on it. That is afterards spin addition and simply not true. If people are happy with Ozzie, be happy with the real Ozzie who could be rude to fans and said things that weren't smart. I was a big Ozzie fan for most of the time that he was a player but his act wore thin over the years. Today's big talk press conferance was totally unimpressive. He may have lost control of the team today. Did the Sox need more passion in 2003? Maybe. Then we could have hired Beyonce Knowles. she'd supply some passion and energy. Just because Ozzie is wired up doesn't mean he can supply what we need. And the team that won the 2003 World Series did not have a big talking manager, but someone who obviously could motivate. If I were an employee and Ozzie was being made my supervisor and said the things on his first day that Ozzie said today, I'd be rolling my eyes saying this jerk will never last but it will be unpleasant until then. I hope to be proven wrong. I make a sizable financial investment in this team every year. And right now not feeling at all good about next year. First off, Guillen has holes in his resume, namely, lack of managerial experience and the inability to conduct himself the way managers are "supposed to" conduct themselves in this town. Al Lopez, Tony LaRussa, Bob Lemon ... great managers, all three. The last I checked though, none had won a World Series with the White Sox. As for being an employee and rolling my eyes if Guillen were made your supervisor, based on what he said yesterday: Yeah, if I were an employee with a negative, bad attitude ... that's just what I'd do. If I were an employee with a positive attitude, wanted to win, and was willing to be big enough to say, "hey, what I've been doing ain't working" ... then maybe I'd say, I'm gonna pull the oars in the same direction like he wants us to do. And wouldn't THAT be nice for a change with a White Sox team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 just not happy about this I am not happy about any move the Sox make until it comes up a winner. That's the bottom line, we want to win and I like Ozzie's enthusiasm. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, we haven't won with who we had before and it doesn't look like Al Lopez is available anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The only player that hasn't said something stupid in his career is a player that doesn't talk to the press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 Inexcusable. For a professional baseball player to be incapable of bunting IF the situation calls for it, is INEXCUSABLE. And it's NOT dumb to take the bat out of a hitter's hands if that hitter is struggling, or if the matchup is wrong, or for any other game-related reason. The biggest complaint about this team is that they play for the long ball. Well, that can be changed if the situation calls for it. Enough coddling of people. Not singling Thomas out here, I'm saying that ANYONE should be able to do a job if called upon, even ( ESPECIALLY ) if that job falls outside of their so-called "skill set". It's not too much to ask of a baseball player to lay down a bunt. They HAVE to play the game the right way, or they should be replaced. I just hope Guillen is given the leverage to enforce his opinions and strategies. And I think that if the players revolt on someone trying to install some fundamentals on them, that says more about the players than it would about Guillen. I'd rather not take Phil Rogers' word for it. I'll wait and see if Guillen can make this team play fundamentally sound baseball. That's all I want to see. We have seen many times, White Sox hitters go up to bunt, and fail. Carlos Lee time and time again comes to mind. To expect Frank and Magglio to bunt is ludicrious. Name 1 player who hits 35 homers a year and also bunts consistently. It doesn't happen. Going the other way, that is a different story. The only decent bunter the Sox had was Alomar. I agree everyone should be able to bunt, but it is simply not the case. Asking Frank or Magglio to bunt would be a huge relief to the other dugout. You don't sacrifice your best hitters. We wouldn't be having the discussion of Frank, Maggs, and Lee bunting if they all didn't try to pull the ball in '03 and hit a HR every AB. Lee started to hit to RF in the second half and, lo and behold, his average increased and so did his RBI totals. Frank and Maggs became two of the most selfish hitters over the course of '03..... trying to hit a HR every AB. Frank was at his best when he utilized all fields. Now he's a "HR hitter." Expect the same crap in '04 if Frank and Maggs worry more about their stats than the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted November 4, 2003 Share Posted November 4, 2003 The only player that hasn't said something stupid in his career is a player that doesn't talk to the press. I think the best philosophy for a player is to perform well. If the player performs well he really has to be a complete ass to draw scrutiny. Jack Morris said this one about female reporters in the locker room: "The only time I want to see a woman when I am naked is when she is on top of me, or I am on top of her". Yet, Jack Morris will always be remembered as a great pitcher, not for this comment. So ozzie can say what ever he wants...as long as the sox win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Inexcusable. For a professional baseball player to be incapable of bunting IF the situation calls for it, is INEXCUSABLE. And it's NOT dumb to take the bat out of a hitter's hands if that hitter is struggling, or if the matchup is wrong, or for any other game-related reason. The biggest complaint about this team is that they play for the long ball. Well, that can be changed if the situation calls for it. Enough coddling of people. Not singling Thomas out here, I'm saying that ANYONE should be able to do a job if called upon, even ( ESPECIALLY ) if that job falls outside of their so-called "skill set". It's not too much to ask of a baseball player to lay down a bunt. They HAVE to play the game the right way, or they should be replaced. I just hope Guillen is given the leverage to enforce his opinions and strategies. And I think that if the players revolt on someone trying to install some fundamentals on them, that says more about the players than it would about Guillen. I'd rather not take Phil Rogers' word for it. I'll wait and see if Guillen can make this team play fundamentally sound baseball. That's all I want to see. We have seen many times, White Sox hitters go up to bunt, and fail. Carlos Lee time and time again comes to mind. To expect Frank and Magglio to bunt is ludicrious. Name 1 player who hits 35 homers a year and also bunts consistently. It doesn't happen. Going the other way, that is a different story. The only decent bunter the Sox had was Alomar. I agree everyone should be able to bunt, but it is simply not the case. Asking Frank or Magglio to bunt would be a huge relief to the other dugout. You don't sacrifice your best hitters. We wouldn't be having the discussion of Frank, Maggs, and Lee bunting if they all didn't try to pull the ball in '03 and hit a HR every AB. Lee started to hit to RF in the second half and, lo and behold, his average increased and so did his RBI totals. Frank and Maggs became two of the most selfish hitters over the course of '03..... trying to hit a HR every AB. Frank was at his best when he utilized all fields. Now he's a "HR hitter." Expect the same crap in '04 if Frank and Maggs worry more about their stats than the team. It's also worth noting that Konerko got his act together when he started hitting to all fields. He still didn't have a real great year, but it was better then I expected after the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 The Sox were a team on life support last year. The would occasionally show signs of life, and actually act "alive." However, they had no heart and very stale and tainted blood. Ozzie brings an infusion of new blood, and an actual "heart transplant." If that's not true, then we'll see first hand, won't we? Ozzie on his worst day is still better than "Sleepy" Manuel on his best day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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