caulfield12 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It actually makes complete sense to sign guys like Gio and Flaherty after trading Cease. If, for some reason, either of them find the velocity that has left them and caused them to become very hitable they become valuable assets at the deadline, and there's no risk to signing a one year deal. Cease would be traded because he has value, which is why they'd sign guys like gio and Flaherty. I think Gio has shown an ability to evolve so I'd have more faith in him being more creative and evolving, but Flaherty is done. Always hurt, bad shoulder, career not bouncing back in my opinion. Just don't think JR feels the reward for gambling on a rebound from GIO is worth it. Too much water under the bridge. No idea about Flaherty, but he has been going downhill for what seems like 3 years now...didn't watch him pitch for the Orioles at all. If he comes in below $10 million on a one year deal, or Montas...but I don't see that happening with either how crazy this current market is. Let's not forget that JR didn't even want to take the risk of holding on to Tim Anderson in 2024 at what, $11ish million??? WIth that 2020-2022 track record and Amed Rosario the best FA on the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 1, 2023 Author Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Just don't think JR feels the reward for gambling on a rebound from GIO is worth it. Too much water under the bridge. No idea about Flaherty, but he has been going downhill for what seems like 3 years now...didn't watch him pitch for the Orioles at all. If he comes in below $10 million on a one year deal, or Montas...but I don't see that happening with either how crazy this current market is. Let's not forget that JR didn't even want to take the risk of holding on to Tim Anderson in 2024 at what, $11ish million??? WIth that 2020-2022 track record and Amed Rosario the best FA on the market? Anderson was 14 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Anderson was 14 million. Right, $11 million must have been a year or two ago...at any rate, it was the bargain basement deal of all-time for JR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) It was hard to recruit Free Agents when there was hype the Sox were in a multi-championship window. They only were able to get guys at the end of their career with no other offers and the Sox had to overpay. It’s even worse now that the Sox are a projected as a perennial 100 loss team over the next few years with Tanking 2.0. The same phenomenon occurs with the Bulls. Need Jerry to pass and his son to sell for any potential for change. Giolito, Flaherty and anyone else will not consider the Sox unless they are literally their only offer, including a premium to play for a team with no chance of success and no ownership willing to make corrections. DeJong has no other team interested beyond say $1M tops, which is why he signed for $2M here. Suck it up, try to do well and GTFO to greener pastures. On the other end of the spectrum, no competent team would offer $75M to Benintendi. That is why he is here. Ditto Keuchel and “Elite” Grandal. Edited December 1, 2023 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, wegner said: Wow, that sounds pretty high Ray for how bad Lucas was at the end of the season. Stroman declined a $21mil option, has injury concerns and also exploded in the second half. These guys are getting paid, or at least the potential reward is worth the risk. I can't imagine giving up 27 runs in 26.2 innings and then saying "no" to 20 million dollars. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, nrockway said: Stroman declined a $21mil option, has injury concerns and also exploded in the second half. These guys are getting paid, or at least the potential reward is worth the risk. I can't imagine giving up 27 runs in 26.2 innings and then saying "no" to 20 million dollars. Wonder what the record is for a one year option being declined? $21 million has to be pretty darned close. Looks like Rodon turned down $22.5 million in the SF deal to take 6/$162 from the Yankees. From $3 million to $44 million to $162, not bad at all!! Edited December 1, 2023 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 On 11/30/2023 at 9:59 PM, caulfield12 said: Just don't think JR feels the reward for gambling on a rebound from GIO is worth it. Too much water under the bridge. No idea about Flaherty, but he has been going downhill for what seems like 3 years now...didn't watch him pitch for the Orioles at all. If he comes in below $10 million on a one year deal, or Montas...but I don't see that happening with either how crazy this current market is. Let's not forget that JR didn't even want to take the risk of holding on to Tim Anderson in 2024 at what, $11ish million??? WIth that 2020-2022 track record and Amed Rosario the best FA on the market? I mean who really knows with this group but it is definitely worth it. You either get a half-a-season worth vintage Gio move him for prospects or he falls apart and you walk away at the end of the year. As far as Tim Anderson goes if it was a no brainier then he would have been moved to some other club after picking up his option. I assume that was explored already. I mean we will see what he signs for. He wasn't just awful last year he was one of the worst players in baseball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 3 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: I mean who really knows with this group but it is definitely worth it. You either get a half-a-season worth vintage Gio move him for prospects or he falls apart and you walk away at the end of the year. As far as Tim Anderson goes if it was a no brainier then he would have been moved to some other club after picking up his option. I assume that was explored already. I mean we will see what he signs for. He wasn't just awful last year he was one of the worst players in baseball How many SS’s other than Bichette are out there? What’s his acquisition cost? Jean Segura, for example, got $17 million guaranteed at his advanced age…although he clearly became more of a 3b as opposed to pure SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, caulfield12 said: How many SS’s other than Bichette are out there? What’s his acquisition cost? Jean Segura, for example, got $17 million guaranteed at his advanced age…although he clearly became more of a 3b as opposed to pure SS. 1. It was 2/17 2. He was coming off a .723 OPS and 1.8 bWar season basically starter level. 3. Tim Anderson has been bad defensively. Look I wanted Anderson moved at the deadline but the writing is on the wall there never was any market for him. If you really want him back he can come back at 1/7 or whatever. Joey Wendle signed for what 1/2M. Sure Anderson will likely get more but Wendle just shows 30+ infielders coming off terrible years aren't valued much in this league. Personally I would be just as happy signing Wendle as I would Anderson. Wendle defense plays anywhere the field so the floor to his game is much higher even if he continues to not hit and can't get back to the .745 OPS he averaged with the Rays. When Anderson doesn't hit he is one of the worst players in baseball. I am not even sure the league views him as a pure SS anymore. Edited December 2, 2023 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 7 hours ago, caulfield12 said: How many SS’s other than Bichette are out there? What’s his acquisition cost? Jean Segura, for example, got $17 million guaranteed at his advanced age…although he clearly became more of a 3b as opposed to pure SS. I’m a big fan of Bo but he isn’t much of a SS. He’s pretty brutal defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: 1. It was 2/17 2. He was coming off a .723 OPS and 1.8 bWar season basically starter level. 3. Tim Anderson has been bad defensively. Look I wanted Anderson moved at the deadline but the writing is on the wall there never was any market for him. If you really want him back he can come back at 1/7 or whatever. Joey Wendle signed for what 1/2M. Sure Anderson will likely get more but Wendle just shows 30+ infielders coming off terrible years aren't valued much in this league. Personally I would be just as happy signing Wendle as I would Anderson. Wendle defense plays anywhere the field so the floor to his game is much higher even if he continues to not hit and can't get back to the .745 OPS he averaged with the Rays. When Anderson doesn't hit he is one of the worst players in baseball. I am not even sure the league views him as a pure SS anymore. By this argument, replacing 2B should be easy. Just move one of those 3B/SS types if it's not a "pure" 2B, right? But all Sox fans know it has been anything but. The reverse of TA. Benintendi averaged 1 fWAR per season from 2019-2021...which would have been worth just a $7/8 million contract...but his 2023 2.8 fWAR on the back of the NYY lineup earned him $75 million??? Edited December 3, 2023 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: By this argument, replacing 2B should be easy. Just move one of those 3B/SS types if it's not a "pure" 2B, right? But all Sox fans know it has been anything but. The reverse of TA. Benintendi averaged 1 fWAR per season from 2019-2021...which would have been worth just a $7/8 million contract...but his 2023 2.8 fWAR on the back of the NYY lineup earned him $75 million??? Once again teams had the opportunity to forgo FA and trade spare parts for him directly. There wasn't any rumored trade offers. During the deadline even after the Bo injury zero serious rumored interest. Clearly his current market value isn't the TO. Otherwise he would have been traded. His TO was not the bargains of bargains you make it out to be. My guess is he signs for something 1/7 or 1/8. We'll just have to see and I am fine with bringing him back at that figure. Edited December 3, 2023 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 On 11/29/2023 at 9:16 AM, poppysox said: Both Bevington and LaRussa were far worse than Pedro IMO. And Ventura was not to write home about either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 On 12/2/2023 at 3:10 PM, CWSpalehoseCWS said: I’m a big fan of Bo but he isn’t much of a SS. He’s pretty brutal defensively. He’s not a gold glover, but calling brutal isn’t accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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