White Sox sign Martin Maldonado 1 year/4 million, vesting option for 2025

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

"Nobody should be losing sleep over Omar Narvaez being blocked or losing MLB at bats." - the whole site in 2019.

3 years later - "How did we wind up with a $17 million a year -1 WAR 35 year old catcher", if only there was something we could have done to prevent this. It's a shame no one could have possibly avoided this."

*insert Tim Robinson in hotdog suit clip*
 

”We gotta figure out who did this!”

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Sox fans would be far more happy if they ignore every single word Chuck Garfein says or thinks. Nobody else here or in the real world is discussing that.

And tanking in the other two sports means losing on purpose for a top pick. When most people talk about tanking in MLB, they mean pulling the plug on spending, not trying to get a higher draft pick. The other two sports have a somewhat tight league minimum spend floor so it’s not as relevant.

No idea what you are talking about. The Astros goal while rebuilding was to get the highest draft pick in multiple years. They did quite well at it.

The Sox goal while rebuilding was the same as the Astros. They failed.

I consider tanking and rebuilding in the same breath.

This tank the Sox are undertaking right now is a rebuild. We're stripping the team of valuable assets in exchange for perceived valuable assets known as prospects. The success or failure depends on the many prospects to develop and be productive MLB players.

To your other point culture is talked about plenty here and has been mentioned in all kinds of podcasts and written articles from any source that covers the Sox and many national outlets because that's what the FO is feeding them.

But the whole time, Reinsdorf seems to escape the lions share of the blame for creating the losing culture . It was Hahn, Kenny, coaches, players. Every player playing, every scout scouting, every coach coaching all hired by the owner owning. The quantity and the quality that winning organizations do as opposed to what Reinsdorf does. That's your losing culture.

Plenty of teams had asshat players and coaches. Winners call that colorful. Losers say bad culture which actually means it's the players who didn't try or did not learn, did not execute because they lacked, commitment, heart, dedication.

It starts at the top not the bottom. Gravity doesn't work that way.

[chitownsportsfan]

46 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

"Nobody should be losing sleep over Omar Narvaez being blocked or losing MLB at bats." - the whole site in 2019.

3 years later - "How did we wind up with a $17 million a year -1 WAR 35 year old catcher", if only there was something we could have done to prevent this. It's a shame no one could have possibly avoided this."

I'm not sure what trading Omar has to do with signing Grandal.  Omar isn't a full time catcher and is now below replacement, just like Grandal. I think the problem is more finding good players than letting JAGs like Omar go.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'm not sure what trading Omar has to do with signing Grandal.  Omar isn't a full time catcher and is now below replacement, just like Grandal. I think the problem is more finding good players than letting JAGs like Omar go.

Everyone told me Omar was useless and would never learn to catch so there was no problem dumping him. They went for the old reliable veterans, first McCann which was surprisingly good, then Grandal. What happened?

Omar developed into a better catcher when he got to teams that worked with him and became a really useful piece. The Brewers got multiple years of a cheap, positive catcher out of it.

The White Sox got stuck with a huge contract for a catcher on his last legs, this happened because they weren’t willing to actually develop the guy they had.

Same story over and over. Hahn needed his mediocre vets, Getz needs his mediocre vetz. Can’t ever take the time and effort to develop the guys we have, that would be hard work, who is supposed to do that? Our minor league development coordinator? Naw, the last guy slept through his job for years, we don’t do stuff like playing and developing our own guys it interrupts our naps.

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Everyone told me Omar was useless and would never learn to catch so there was no problem dumping him. They went for the old reliable veterans, first McCann which was surprisingly good, then Grandal. What happened?

Omar developed into a better catcher when he got to teams that worked with him and became a really useful piece. The Brewers got multiple years of a cheap, positive catcher out of it.

The White Sox got stuck with a huge contract for a catcher on his last legs, this happened because they weren’t willing to actually develop the guy they had.

Same story over and over. Hahn needed his mediocre vets, Getz needs his mediocre vetz. Can’t ever take the time and effort to develop the guys we have, that would be hard work, who is supposed to do that? Our minor league development coordinator? Naw, the last guy slept through his job for years, we don’t do stuff like playing and developing our own guys it interrupts our naps.

Yet somehow Getz was the most organized development guy ever seen since the Branch Rickey days...just not sure what JR is actually looking at or for.

[Lip Man 1]

Sox used to sign every relief pitcher out there under Hahn...guess Getz is now trying to sign every catcher out there. 

[WhiteSox2023]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Sox used to sign every relief pitcher out there under Hahn...guess Getz is now trying to sign every catcher out there. 

Relief pitchers are apparently next on the task list.  Position players, nah…  the Sox offense looks great.  The running theme is that they sign what’s cheap.

[JoeC]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

I consider tanking and rebuilding in the same breath.

 

Tanking is one part of a rebuild.

During the rebuild, the Astros also re-organized their entire drafting and development philosophy throughout the organization. They drafted, developed, and eventually played (at the big league level) according to a strategy backed by the stats, supplemented by coaching.

The Sox's strategy was to acquire highly ranked prospects and just hope they figured it out. They didn't implement any sort of cohesive development strategy beyond letting players try to figure it out by themselves along the climb up the ladder. 

[SoCalChiSox]

7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No idea what you are talking about. The Astros goal while rebuilding was to get the highest draft pick in multiple years. They did quite well at it.

The Sox goal while rebuilding was the same as the Astros. They failed.

I consider tanking and rebuilding in the same breath.

This tank the Sox are undertaking right now is a rebuild. We're stripping the team of valuable assets in exchange for perceived valuable assets known as prospects. The success or failure depends on the many prospects to develop and be productive MLB players.

To your other point culture is talked about plenty here and has been mentioned in all kinds of podcasts and written articles from any source that covers the Sox and many national outlets because that's what the FO is feeding them.

But the whole time, Reinsdorf seems to escape the lions share of the blame for creating the losing culture . It was Hahn, Kenny, coaches, players. Every player playing, every scout scouting, every coach coaching all hired by the owner owning. The quantity and the quality that winning organizations do as opposed to what Reinsdorf does. That's your losing culture.

Plenty of teams had asshat players and coaches. Winners call that colorful. Losers say bad culture which actually means it's the players who didn't try or did not learn, did not execute because they lacked, commitment, heart, dedication.

It starts at the top not the bottom. Gravity doesn't work that way.

This is not really a rebuild.

It's like a half ass half measure where they are stuck in between a fantasy of a retool and a full on rebuild.

I dont doubt JR was truly miserable with all the losing last year and he doesn't want to go thru the slog of a full on rebuild at his age.

He also wants a relatively quick turnaround otherwise ticket sales will be beyond awful. After all, you have to create some hope and that whole build a 2nd place team in order to keep some acceptable level of fan interest to keep money rolling in.

This is also why they can't seemingly move Robert now or else interest would truly tank.

On the other hand this is not a true rebuild in the sense that you have referred to...if we were really trying to turn every asset into prospects we would sell off Robert for a kings ransom right now while his value is highest, eat a big chunk of Moncada, Eloy and Beni's money for real returns. Or at least take on a bad contract or so to buy some prospects. 

But we're not doing any of that. JR is trying to quickly retool while simultaneously getting the financial benefits of a rebuild. You can't have it both ways. 

 

 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

This is not really a rebuild.

It's like a half ass half measure where they are stuck in between a fantasy of a retool and a full on rebuild.

I dont doubt JR was truly miserable with all the losing last year and he doesn't want to go thru the slog of a full on rebuild at his age.

He also wants a relatively quick turnaround otherwise ticket sales will be beyond awful. After all, you have to create some hope and that whole build a 2nd place team in order to keep some acceptable level of fan interest to keep money rolling in.

This is also why they can't seemingly move Robert now or else interest would truly tank.

On the other hand this is not a true rebuild in the sense that you have referred to...if we were really trying to turn every asset into prospects we would sell off Robert for a kings ransom right now while his value is highest, eat a big chunk of Moncada, Eloy and Beni's money for real returns. Or at least take on a bad contract or so to buy some prospects. 

But we're not doing any of that. JR is trying to quickly retool while simultaneously getting the financial benefits of a rebuild. You can't have it both ways. 

 

 

"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays is coming to its close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences."

 

[oldsox]

This signing is beyond stupid.  So now the White Sox are leading the league in signing way over the hill catchers who can't hit.  Getz can't be this dumb.  He must have been told to do this.  Meanwhile, I'm done.

[Dick Allen]

42 minutes ago, oldsox said:

This signing is beyond stupid.  So now the White Sox are leading the league in signing way over the hill catchers who can't hit.  Getz can't be this dumb.  He must have been told to do this.  Meanwhile, I'm done.

What I don't get is how much credit people give catchers. I think they are expecting miracles.  If you hated the White Sox catchers in 2023, and think these new old guys will fix pitchers, you would need to explain how Touki pitched just as well or better with the White Sox crap as he did with ATL, CLE, and LAD. And he's one of the guys that needs to be "fixed". The pitchers traded, except for Diekman did the same or worse, and no one would blame Diekmans suckage on catchers. Even Lance Lynn had a FIP a run higher with the Dodgers.  Lynn also had probably the best season on his career in 2021 with the White sox catchers.  I think they are going totally overboard with this. A year from now, there will be new pitchers and new catchers. What will be the gain?

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What I don't get is how much credit people give catchers. I think they are expecting miracles.  If you hated the White Sox catchers in 2023, and think these new old guys will fix pitchers, you would need to explain how Touki pitched just as well or better with the White Sox crap as he did with ATL, CLE, and LAD. And he's one of the guys that needs to be "fixed". The pitchers traded, except for Diekman did the same or worse, and no one would blame Diekmans suckage on catchers. Even Lance Lynn had a FIP a run higher with the Dodgers.  Lynn also had probably the best season on his career in 2021 with the White sox catchers.  I think they are going totally overboard with this. A year from now, there will be new pitchers and new catchers. What will be the gain?

Learning not to sign 30+ catchers to the second biggest contract in team history.

Certainly no long term deals at that stage.

[Dick Allen]

A younger better Maldonado played for the 2019 Royals who lost 103 games. It didn't seem to do much for them going forward as they have sucked since.

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

A younger better Maldonado played for the 2019 Royals who lost 103 games. It didn't seem to do much for them going forward as they have sucked since.

Dick do you know how much those pitchers learned from him?  Priceless 

[caulfield12]

“But at the end of the day we felt we needed more depth with a guy like Martin Maldonado, who is one of the elite catch-and-throw guys in the league. We think his power still has some potential as well. His power numbers increased in the second half last year (2018). We like that. We really like the fact he can shut down a running game and give our pitchers a lot of confidence.”

Quote from Dayton Moore on the 33 year-old Maldonado coming to replace injured Sal Perez prior to 2019.

 

 

Hilarious ChatGPT article https://bvmsports.com/2023/12/28/martin-maldonado-from-kc-royals-to-chicago-white-sox/

The signing of Martín Maldonado and the pattern of former Royals personnel joining the White Sox highlight the interconnectedness of teams in Major League Baseball and the impact of personnel movements on team dynamics and culture.

By the Numbers

• Martín Maldonado signs a one-year $4 million contract with a 2025 vesting option worth an equal amount
• At least eight former Royals, including Chris Getz and Pedro Grifol, are part of the Chicago White Sox organization

State of Play

• Martín Maldonado joins a growing list of former KC Royals personnel who have moved to the White Sox
• The interconnectedness of teams and the influence of personnel moves on team dynamics is evident
• Pedro Grifol's first season as the manager of the White Sox did not produce desired results, which may impact the decision on his future

 

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, oldsox said:

This signing is beyond stupid.  So now the White Sox are leading the league in signing way over the hill catchers who can't hit.  Getz can't be this dumb.  He must have been told to do this.  Meanwhile, I'm done.

Neat! After 10 years of hearing that decisions by the White Sox can’t have been made by Rick Hahn, I think this is my first example of Chris Getz’s decisions aren’t Chris Getz’s fault!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

This is not really a rebuild.

It's like a half ass half measure where they are stuck in between a fantasy of a retool and a full on rebuild.

I dont doubt JR was truly miserable with all the losing last year and he doesn't want to go thru the slog of a full on rebuild at his age.

He also wants a relatively quick turnaround otherwise ticket sales will be beyond awful. After all, you have to create some hope and that whole build a 2nd place team in order to keep some acceptable level of fan interest to keep money rolling in.

This is also why they can't seemingly move Robert now or else interest would truly tank.

On the other hand this is not a true rebuild in the sense that you have referred to...if we were really trying to turn every asset into prospects we would sell off Robert for a kings ransom right now while his value is highest, eat a big chunk of Moncada, Eloy and Beni's money for real returns. Or at least take on a bad contract or so to buy some prospects. 

But we're not doing any of that. JR is trying to quickly retool while simultaneously getting the financial benefits of a rebuild. You can't have it both ways. 

 

 

Pretty much everything they do is questionable but no matter how you slice it, it's a rebuild.

But instead of taking the best prospects  they are limiting themselves to higher floor older prospects AA/AAA to try to compete asap.

They are just so innovative !

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Pretty much everything they do is questionable but no matter how you slice it, it's a rebuild.

But instead of taking the best prospects  they are limiting themselves to higher floor older prospects AA/AAA to try to compete asap.

They are just so innovative !

As much as it pains me to say it, it makes sense though.  Without being able to actually tank, trading for low level minor leaguers is counterproductive to an extent.  They need to time an influx of prospects along with multiple free agent signings to turn this around quickly and that seems to be their plan starting as soon as next off-season.  This year is unfortunately about letting the KW / Hahn rot gradually work its way out of the organization.

[joejoesox]

"Give Chris Getz a chance!" 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

As much as it pains me to say it, it makes sense though.  Without being able to actually tank, trading for low level minor leaguers is counterproductive to an extent.  They need to time an influx of prospects along with multiple free agent signings to turn this around quickly and that seems to be their plan starting as soon as next off-season.  This year is unfortunately about letting the KW / Hahn rot gradually work its way out of the organization.

But relevant to this thread - they also need guys that can help them in 2025, particularly cheap guys, even if they're backups. Signing Martin Maldonado to a deal with a vesting option both blocks Lee, likely limits his development and gives a high chance that he's released at some point prior to 2025, and potentially locks in some funds on a catcher who will turn 39 during that season if his option vests. 

If this is the strategy, to try to turn things around quickly and get back to .500, then when there are moves made that on paper undermine that strategy, they should be specifically called out. This is one of those.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But relevant to this thread - they also need guys that can help them in 2025, particularly cheap guys, even if they're backups. Signing Martin Maldonado to a deal with a vesting option both blocks Lee, likely limits his development and gives a high chance that he's released at some point prior to 2025, and potentially locks in some funds on a catcher who will turn 39 during that season if his option vests. 

If this is the strategy, to try to turn things around quickly and get back to .500, then when there are moves made that on paper undermine that strategy, they should be specifically called out. This is one of those.

I think theoretically this is simply about getting some of the young pitchers ready for 2025 & beyond.  Have the vesting details been shared yet?

[The Beast]

Do we know what the vesting option is based on?

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Do we know what the vesting option is based on?

Not yet, but MLBTR said that it is a $4 million option. It's probably something that vests as long as he doesn't get seriously hurt, given those numbers - this is likely a 2 year, $8 million deal that gives the Sox an out if he misses a large portion of 2024.

[Quin]

19 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'm not sure what trading Omar has to do with signing Grandal.  Omar isn't a full time catcher and is now below replacement, just like Grandal. I think the problem is more finding good players than letting JAGs like Omar go.

Probably that he was an full-time, All-Star left-handed catcher who put up good production in 2019 and 2021. He wasn't good in 2020 or 2022, but you'd have the best catching tandem in baseball (Narvaez, McCann) for cheap in 2019-2020, and don't end up spending money on Grandal.