Braves acquire Jarred Kelenic

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Other teams could probably make some sort of tweak and make him better than he has been too. A team like the Dodgers.

Yep.

[ChiSox59]

Can we start Balta and Gal their own Cease trade value thread where they can debate whether Getz takes sunflower seeds, roisin or chewing gum in return for Cease? 

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Can we start Balta and Gal their own Cease trade value thread where they can debate whether Getz takes sunflower seeds, roisin or chewing gum in return for Cease? 

Balta is an AI chatbot, I'm convinced.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

Do you think Mariners fans ever saw this site and went "why the f*** are Sox fans so obsessed with our outfielder that hit under .200 two years in a row and strikes out in a third of his at-bats?"

To which I would answer , " Have you seen the OFers in our farm system or our possible Opening Day RFer ? "

That's an upgrade.

[bmags]

25 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Going more than 5 innings and not walking everyone. 

There were only 5 200 inning starters last year. You know who walked more than him? Cy Winner blake snell.

But lucky for him, he (Snell) let up an absurdly low amount of hits. So you went up and were either walking or striking out, but no big damage. BABIP for him though was just .256. For Cease? .336.

Now everything isn't so simple, Cease gave up harder contact this year, probably from some velocity decrease.

But the stuff you are citing is just a lot of what pitchers are now. And Cease is very good among them. 

You don't have to tweak much, but put him in front of...like not Gavin Sheets and he's better.

[bmags]

Anyway no reason to trash cease. You should read the prospect writer chats when he came up, everyone thought he was gonna be a bullpen pitcher.

He worked his ass off to be this durable and get this much out of his arm. 

I hope he wins a chip somewhere. Join the alumni of sox who are contributing to other world series.

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Anyway no reason to trash cease. You should read the prospect writer chats when he came up, everyone thought he was gonna be a bullpen pitcher.

He worked his ass off to be this durable and get this much out of his arm. 

I hope he wins a chip somewhere. Join the alumni of sox who are contributing to other world series.

One of the more lamentable things about being such a sad sack franchise is that (understandably) even the good players will get critiqued and labelled as "losers" at times.

It's not fair, but it's predictable.

[Tnetennba]

20 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Going more than 5 innings and not walking everyone. 

Now you’re just being hyperbolic. Most starters don’t go 7 or 8 anymore. Cease going deeper in games would be nice, I agree.  But you’re talking like he has no positive attributes as a starting pitcher, which is silly. Every team in the league would love to have Dylan Cease in their rotation, and would value him far more accurately than you have in this thread. 

[ptatc]

38 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Other teams could probably make some sort of tweak and make him better than he has been too. A team like the Dodgers.

Bellinger improved when he left the dodgers for the Cubs. Not sure I trust them. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, bmags said:

Also $12 mil for a starting pitcher is not a lot.

Exactly.  What are we ultimately going to be pay in free agency for a guy to provide us with #5 stater innings in a lost season?  $5M to $6M minimum if not more?  Gonzales wouldn’t be substantially more than that.  And White’s salary write-off is like $7M per year.  That’s like going with Sosa or Popeye over 1.25 Leury Garcia’s for reserve infielder role.

[Quin]

25 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

To which I would answer , " Have you seen the OFers in our farm system or our possible Opening Day RFer ? "

That's an upgrade.

I can't remember if you were the conductor of the Gavin Sheets train once upon a time, but he strikes out far less, has a higher HR%, goes opposite field about the same, and, hilariously, hits the ball .1 MPH harder than Kelenic.

Sure, he can't field and last year he put up 2021-2022 Kelenic-esque numbers, but at least he doesn't break his foot being an angry boy.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Could it be possible that Cease is viewed a lot less favorably by the other 29 clubs than he is on this board? 

Could be that teams are only willing to give up one back end T100 guy as the centerpiece and the rest of the deal will be lottery tickets. 

What I'm getting at is that Maybe Cease's value is closer to the deals that Bowden suggested for the Sox. 

Nothing against you, but of course Balta liked this post

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Bellinger improved when he left the dodgers for the Cubs. Not sure I trust them. 

That’s foolish. His mvp year put them in a difficult spot with sky high arbitration despite two barely playable years.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Think of what Cease did outside of 2022 and that's probably closer to his value. What would you give up for his 2021 and 2023? 

He’s 8th in fWAR over the past three years.  I don’t understand how our own fans are underrating him.  Yes, he wasn’t his 2022 form in 2023, but he played behind a s%*# defense (-11 OAA behind him) and seems like he was dealing with some mechanical issues.  The stuff was still elite and get him in a competent organization and his slider shape likely returns to form and he’s a substantially better pitcher in 2024.  I guarantee teams don’t view 2023 as the norm moving forward.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s 8th in fWAR over the past three years.  I don’t understand how our own fans are underrating him.  Yes, he wasn’t his 2022 form in 2023, but he played behind a s%*# defense (-11 OAA behind him) and seems like he was dealing with some mechanical issues.  The stuff was still elite and get him in a competent organization and his slider shape likely returns to form and he’s a substantially better pitcher in 2024.  I guarantee teams don’t view 2023 as the norm moving forward.

I feel like I need to share this video which outlines the defense failing Cease against the Dodgers:

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

I can't remember if you were the conductor of the Gavin Sheets train once upon a time, but he strikes out far less, has a higher HR%, goes opposite field about the same, and, hilariously, hits the ball .1 MPH harder than Kelenic.

Sure, he can't field and last year he put up 2021-2022 Kelenic-esque numbers, but at least he doesn't break his foot being an angry boy.

 Beggers can't be choosers. Postive fWAr wasn't exactly in abundance among Sox position players last year.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Every indication is Kelenic stays in Atlanta

I don’t think they took on $25M to $30M if bad money to then flip Kelenic for a cost controlled Cease.  This is them buying a potential cheap LF solution for the next five years and making it easier to deal Grissom for SP help.

I just don’t know how I’d feel about Grissom.  His bat is somewhat interesting, but he has no ideal defensive position.  Perhaps he can get better at 2B, but he was dreadful there last year.  As part of larger package I’d take a shot on, but not sure I’d feel good with him being even the second most important piece.

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

here's a selection. 

 

Get real guys it was a very avg haul with Semien keying the deal. Them talking about phegley is especially lol worthy. Come on man.

Haha! A's fans are talking long term when their GM is known to trade players as they are going into their arbitration years. Its possible that two or three of the traded players will have long careers, just not in an A's uniform, lol.

 think Hahn made a great move getting Samardzija for what he had to give up. That being said I'm just looking at this as a 1 year rental for the time being. I think Samardzija as much as he loves the city and all, first and foremost wants to get paid top dollar. MLB is the only sport without a salary cap and players seem to take every advantage of it. I'm not trying to p!ss on anyone's parade here but this guy has said for a while now he intends to test the UFA market and I believe he will do just that. Not confident he'll be in a Sox uni in 2016 but I trust Hahn in making this team competitive the next few years with or without Samardzija.

What a great deal for this team! 

Also, I just love hearing Rick Hahn talk. Pretty serious mancrush.   (This one is specifically why I am not copying names)

As I've said before, besides Wite I'm probably Marcus' biggest fan but he's gone in a heartbeat if he's the main piece in a deal for JS. (Same poster as above)

Here's one specifically said to me when I dared question Samardzija's Exceptional record: "Would you say Chris Sale has been a good pitcher for the last 4 years? I ask because Sale and Samardzija have been on the exact same developmental scale over the last 4 years. Save for Sale getting hurt this year, I think their innings would look almost exactly the same. Sale's better, but Samardzija is still a very, very good pitcher."

On Marcus: "He's certainly not irreplaceable.  Who's volunteering to drive him to the airport?"

A legit #2 for Danish/Semien is a relative small price to pay.

I like Semien, but if the main part of the trade is Semien for Shark, it's done yesterday.

I love you Rick (oh god this poster is still here)

Hell Yeah!!! Fired up. Fantastic trade. Beane gets three guys, all of whom have a shot, but all of whom have legitimate flaws and none of which are top 100 guys. I make this trade every day. Whether it pans out or not, who knows, but on paper, I can't fault Rick H for this!!!

Rick Hahn's walking along 5th Street in the gaslamp district making it rain.

Rick f***ing Hahn. Kenny damned Williams.

Holy crap. That is stealing from the A's.

So much better then Danish and Trey IMO!

Happy Happy Joy joy

Seriously. Great trade. Semien is the only moderately concerning name in that deal. Sox are going to either get an extension or a draft pick at the end of the year too. I ain't mad.

Wow, first the news of Robertson, now Shark AND the Sox did not have to give up Anderson,Montas, Danish, Hawkins or Ravelo! Well done Hahn.

If he's a 4 WAR pitcher going forward, this deal is a steal and I absolutely love Semien.

I support that. Would have preferred Beck being the pitcher over Bassitt, mainly because I think Bassitt can be a good reliever. Again...two guys, none of which are top 100 guys, a few months after the so called genius GM traded a top 10 prospect for Shark.

Wow, I was really looking forward to Bassitt in the pen eventually, but if this is the entire deal then I love it!

So it's just Bassitt + Semien? That's better than Semien, Trayce and Beck!

I'm pretty surprised Bassitt and Beck have any value tbh.

I've gone through about 50 pages and there's very scant traces of people saying we overpaid. There's a very uniform euphoria. Guess who the first person to specifically say "I still don't like it" was? And the very first reply I got? "That post is so full of fail". You should see the reactions I got when I dared to write that they were still a sub .500 team.

LOL. I just had to quote this because of the "this post is so full of fail" quote. That made be laugh. The common use of "fail" is an internet relic of the past. You don't see it much now a days. That was huge back in the day. 

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Do you think Mariners fans ever saw this site and went "why the f*** are Sox fans so obsessed with our outfielder that hit under .200 two years in a row and strikes out in a third of his at-bats?"

LOL. I chuckled out loud from this one. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t think they took on $25M to $30M if bad money to then flip Kelenic for a cost controlled Cease.  This is them buying a potential cheap LF solution for the next five years and making it easier to deal Grissom for SP help.

I just don’t know how I’d feel about Grissom.  His bat is somewhat interesting, but he has no ideal defensive position.  Perhaps he can get better at 2B, but he was dreadful there last year.  As part of larger package I’d take a shot on, but not sure I’d feel good with him being even the second most important piece.

I mean you could also make the argument that taking on that money was worth it if Kelenic is a key part of a Cease trade, as Cease is very underpaid over the next 2 seasons compared to pitchers of a similar talent level as him. But who knows if the Sox would even want him. 

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

"Why does he have his own appreciation thread?"

"Also, what is their obsession with Padres players?"

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Because he's not been close to that type of pitcher any other time in his career. It was fueled by an unsustainable strand rate. 

His slider in 2022 was the best pitch in Statcast history.  That’s why he was so good in 2022 and I don’t know why people would expect that pitch to go away forever.  He just needs to make some adjustments to get the shape of it back to what it once was.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

His slider in 2022 was the best pitch in Statcast history.  That’s why he was so good in 2022 and I don’t know why people would expect that pitch to go away forever.  He just needs to make some adjustments to get the shape of it back to what it once was.

But other than that he sucks

[Harry Chappas]

45 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Now you’re just being hyperbolic. Most starters don’t go 7 or 8 anymore. Cease going deeper in games would be nice, I agree.  But you’re talking like he has no positive attributes as a starting pitcher, which is silly. Every team in the league would love to have Dylan Cease in their rotation, and would value him far more accurately than you have in this thread. 

People ar acting like he was end of career John Danks.  

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

But are Rosenthal's reports something being fed to him by a biased source - Chris Getz, for example, trying to drive interest in a weak market, leaking "oh everyone is in on him the Dodgers are in on him the Orioles the Giants there's huge interest he's 90% likely to be moved for a huge return" - all of that can be reported if Chris Getz or someone very close to him tells you it.

If it turns out that the person leaking all that stuff is lying...Rosenthal and others aren't going to burn their sources by revealing who it was telling them that. You guys won't suddenly stop believing Rosenthal's next insider report if this one turns out inaccurate. Why wouldn't the teams and reporters use each other like that, to try to drive a market?

Rosenthal isn’t Bob Nightengale.  He reports out what he believes to be true and isn’t simply a proxy of a single biased team source.  I know you want us to fail miserably in terms of a Cease trade, but this is a ridiculous reach even for you.