Sox Sign Erick Fedde - 2 years, $15 million

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

For the Position players to be better - the changes so far are Sheets is the starting RF, Nicky Lopez is the starting 2b, Stassi is the starting C, and DeJong is the starting SS. Burger is also gone. The only spot that looks like an actual upgrade is, and this is pretty amazing - Nicky Lopez is better than what the White Sox ran out at 2b last year. Sheets was awful and hasn't been replaced. Anderson was awful and was replaced by a guy who was almost as bad. Stassi and Grandal were equally bad. I'd actually take last year's lineup solely because of Burger being present for part of the year, as of now.

You realize Stassi didn’t play last year right?

[Balta1701]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

You realize Stassi didn’t play last year right?

No I did not, I guess I was looking at his 2022 and that was just about the 0 WAR that Grandal put up in 2023. That makes it look even worse! Thanks!

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

No I did not, I guess I was looking at his 2022 and that was just about the 0 WAR that Grandal put up in 2023. That makes it look even worse! Thanks!

He's just a flip candidate, nothing more, nothing less.  For our purposes this year, that's fine.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No I did not, I guess I was looking at his 2022 and that was just about the 0 WAR that Grandal put up in 2023. That makes it look even worse! Thanks!

Oh I don’t necessarily disagree with your point, but was just pointing out that fact.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's just a flip candidate, nothing more, nothing less.  For our purposes this year, that's fine.

Not disagreeing with that. Replying to a poster who says that our position player group right now is better than they were in 2023. Stassi is fine, he's not obviously a massive downgrade from Grandal, but he's on paper certainly no massive upgrade right now either. 

[spiderman]

Let's be honest. Outside of a Robert, Cease, maybe a few other guys that people are hoping improve (like Vaughn), this roster is a garbage heap. It's a 95+ loss team. 

[chitownsportsfan]

23 minutes ago, spiderman said:

Let's be honest. Outside of a Robert, Cease, maybe a few other guys that people are hoping improve (like Vaughn), this roster is a garbage heap. It's a 95+ loss team. 

Ya, and the best case scenario is we bounce back enough to be a decent (so like 80 wins) but not good team and are able to flip some guys to start competing against in 2025.

I'm not going to be watching many games, but at this point in the offseason at least Getz seems to have realized what has to be done.

Edited December 11, 2023 by chitownsportsfan

[South Side Hit Men]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Not disagreeing with that. Replying to a poster who says that our position player group right now is better than they were in 2023. Stassi is fine, he's not obviously a massive downgrade from Grandal, but he's on paper certainly no massive upgrade right now either. 

Not saying they signed game changing players, but I would wager heavily the Sox will finish above their 2023 29th rank for position player fWAR, beyond say an Oakland like salary purge or Robert, Yoan, Benintendi and Eloy for whatever they can get to make the other team eat all the money.

Also think their bench players will be stronger to help their overall fWAR production.

Chicago White Sox 2023 fWAR ranking by position:

• 10th Center Field 4.5 - Expect sight regression here, or major if Robert losses significant time.
• 14th Third Base 2.4 - Expect a wash with a Yoan bounce back offsetting the good Burger did here.
• 14th Designated Hitter 1.8 This could drop between injuries or trading Eloy. Busted by Burger last year.
• 24th Shortstop 0.7 - Don't expect much change here beyond a Montgomery promotion.
• 25th First Base 0.3 - Vaughn can improve to a 1.0 + player.
• 27th Second Base 0.2 - Improving to 1.0 would be a big upgrade between prospects and Lopez
• 28th Left Field -0.3 Expect a 1-1.5 season for Benintendi, but may be overoptimistic
• 30th Catcher -0.8 Expect a big upgrade in terms of defense, framing and game prep for the staff.
• 30th Right Field -3.8 Just getting a Mazara 0 fWAR type guy who can field the position would be a big upgrade.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not saying they signed game changing players, but I would wager heavily the Sox will finish above their 2023 29th rank for position player fWAR, beyond say an Oakland like salary purge or Robert, Yoan, Benintendi and Eloy for whatever they can get to make the other team eat all the money.

Also think their bench players will be stronger to help their overall fWAR production.

Chicago White Sox 2023 fWAR ranking by position:

• 10th Center Field 4.5 - Expect sight regression here, or major if Robert losses significant time.
• 14th Third Base 2.4 - Expect a wash with a Yoan bounce back offsetting the good Burger did here.
• 14th Designated Hitter 1.8 This could drop between injuries or trading Eloy. Busted by Burger last year.
• 24th Shortstop 0.7 - Don't expect much change here beyond a Montgomery promotion.
• 25th First Base 0.3 - Vaughn can improve to a 1.0 + player.
• 27th Second Base 0.2 - Improving to 1.0 would be a big upgrade between prospects and Lopez
• 28th Left Field -0.3 Expect a 1-1.5 season for Benintendi, but may be overoptimistic
• 30th Catcher -0.8 Expect a big upgrade in terms of defense, framing and game prep for the staff.
• 30th Right Field -3.8 Just getting a Mazara 0 fWAR type guy who can field the position would be a big upgrade.

Position player wise, it will be hard to be worse, even assuming we don't make any other big signings or deals.

Pitching wise? We'll be awful, but not so much more that some improved defense won't offset part of it.

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Not saying they signed game changing players, but I would wager heavily the Sox will finish above their 2023 29th rank for position player fWAR, beyond say an Oakland like salary purge or Robert, Yoan, Benintendi and Eloy for whatever they can get to make the other team eat all the money.

Also think their bench players will be stronger to help their overall fWAR production.

Chicago White Sox 2023 fWAR ranking by position:

• 10th Center Field 4.5 - Expect sight regression here, or major if Robert losses significant time.
• 14th Third Base 2.4 - Expect a wash with a Yoan bounce back offsetting the good Burger did here.
• 14th Designated Hitter 1.8 This could drop between injuries or trading Eloy. Busted by Burger last year.
• 24th Shortstop 0.7 - Don't expect much change here beyond a Montgomery promotion.
• 25th First Base 0.3 - Vaughn can improve to a 1.0 + player.
• 27th Second Base 0.2 - Improving to 1.0 would be a big upgrade between prospects and Lopez
• 28th Left Field -0.3 Expect a 1-1.5 season for Benintendi, but may be overoptimistic
• 30th Catcher -0.8 Expect a big upgrade in terms of defense, framing and game prep for the staff.
• 30th Right Field -3.8 Just getting a Mazara 0 fWAR type guy who can field the position would be a big upgrade.

Having some familiarity with White Sox fans expecting the guys we have to improve without a good reason, I think you’re expecting guys to improve without good reason.

For example - yes Stassi is a defensive upgrade from Grandal, but less so from Zavala. However offense does matter, and Stassi compared to Grandal is a loss of like 50 points of OBP from the 29th ranked OBP in the league. And Lee, well I don’t know if he can be as bad as he was last year, that sounds like a serious challenge.

Benintendi might be a little better with slugging if his wrist was a problem (this still bugs me because no one ever says we shouldn’t sign a guy who hurt his wrist but then it immediately becomes an excuse if they struggle), but he had another problem - his defense fell apart as the season went on. I didn’t expect this from him and am uncertain why he suddenly went from average to terrible, can you tell men if you’re saying his D will get better id like to know why.

A bounce back from Yoan, sigh I’m sure I wrote last offseason why that was too optimistic. Improvement from Vaughn - I will believe it when I see it, we heard last year that the new coaches would make a difference and they just made him chase more. 

The bench is better? Who is the bench? The same guys as last year right? 

Right now on paper I will give you Lopez as better than the awful 2b they ran out last year, that sorta balances Burger being gone. Otherwise it’s the same optimistic stuff that didn’t work last year. I will give some Credit for saying that it might get to 70 wins, rather than saying it could challenge for the division like people said last year.

[South Side Hit Men]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Having some familiarity with White Sox fans expecting the guys we have to improve without a good reason, I think you’re expecting guys to improve without good reason.

For example - yes Stassi is a defensive upgrade from Grandal, but less so from Zavala. However offense does matter, and Stassi compared to Grandal is a loss of like 50 points of OBP from the 29th ranked OBP in the league. And Lee, well I don’t know if he can be as bad as he was last year, that sounds like a serious challenge.

Benintendi might be a little better with slugging if his wrist was a problem (this still bugs me because no one ever says we shouldn’t sign a guy who hurt his wrist but then it immediately becomes an excuse if they struggle), but he had another problem - his defense fell apart as the season went on. I didn’t expect this from him and am uncertain why he suddenly went from average to terrible, can you tell men if you’re saying his D will get better id like to know why.

A bounce back from Yoan, sigh I’m sure I wrote last offseason why that was too optimistic. Improvement from Vaughn - I will believe it when I see it, we heard last year that the new coaches would make a difference and they just made him chase more. 

The bench is better? Who is the bench? The same guys as last year right? 

Right now on paper I will give you Lopez as better than the awful 2b they ran out last year, that sorta balances Burger being gone. Otherwise it’s the same optimistic stuff that didn’t work last year. I will give some Credit for saying that it might get to 70 wins, rather than saying it could challenge for the division like people said last year.

This is my thought process, tying the fWAR projections to tangible reasons. I'm going most on the limb vs. Fangraphs for Yoan Moncada, whereas Fangraphs are conservative with the other players and are within reason, IMO, vs. improvement with no reasonable expectations.

Catchers - I'm combining the two since this is basically a split season position. The 2023 Sox Catcher Slashline over 162 was .196 / .264 / .310 (league worst) with a middle of pack defensive rating (11.8 for 15th). The team projected combined 2024 catcher numbers are .214 / .283 / .355. Lee's projected .615 might be overly optimistic, but I do think they can cobble a .610-.630 OPS if Perez plays at least 30-40 games, which would be a strong improvement over their .574 OPS.

I also think the staff will be better prepared with Max Stassi who has always been praised for his framing, and from Angels reports and recommendations from former Angels coaches and now White Sox coaches (Matt Wise Bullpen and catching coach Drew Butera), and the fact Grandal was notorious for minimal pitcher game prep, this will be an upgrade. He should also help mentoring the rookies and if he is promoted Queto, who if promoted should significantly upgrade their collective offensive production.

Benintendi will continue to be a negative fielder, but there is slight projected improvement which I'm not sure will happen. The big improvement per Fangraphs will be increasing HRs from 5 to 12 and increasing BA from .262 to .270, both of which I believe have a decent chance of occurring.  2023 .262/.326/.356 -14.4 defense vs. 2024 projected .270/.339/.392 -7.2 defense.

Moncada will be motivated. His back appeared healthy and he hit strong to close out the season ((First Half .649 OPS, .vs. Second Half .788 (September / October .904). I understand it's an if, but if he is healthy for most of the year, I expect him to shut up the haters here and on CSN and his OPS will be in the .790-.820 range. This is a significant improvement from his projected .732 on Fan Graphs, and this is the player I am personally going on the limb for vs. relying by and large on Fangraph's projections / regression to the mean. Quote this post and laugh your ass off if I'm wrong and Yoan ends up playing 120 + games and hitting in the.710-730 OPS range like last year.

Vaughn enters his Age 26 season with a full year at 1B under his belt. Players typically peak in their mid to late 20s. He has been consistent with his OPS the past two years (.750 & .743), with Fangraphs projecting a reasonable improvement to .778, or about 30 points higher from his previous two seasons, with a four HR improvement (21 to 25). Like Abreu, he is one of the handful of players they can count on to remain in the lineup for just about the entire year. The slash line projections seem reasonable (2023 .258 / .314 / .429 vs, 2024 .262 / .324 / .454, the latter driven by 4 HR . 2 2B) so six extra base hits year over year.

DeJong  + Had a 0.3 fWAR, projected with a 0.4 fWAR. Anderson may finish higher in 2024, but even a 0.0 2024 fWAR at shortstop is a vast improvement based on the level of suck Tim delivered in 2023.

Right Field Wildcard - Fangraphs have .708 OPS for Colas, and .736 for Sheets for 2024. I don't have confidence in either, would take an improvement for Colas. Perhaps he'll improve now that he is a father and is focused on banking some money before being run out of baseball for not listening to his manager and coaches.

Frankly, I'd be fine if they sign some low cost guy who is a plus defender and can marginally hit (say .680-.720 OPS), yielding a 0 or marginally better fWAR player. Like Shortstop, that is a vast improvement over what they trotted out there both offensively and defensively. This is a very low bar Getz should be able to beat, with a bonus if Colas can be what some thought he could.

DH also a wildcard - Could improve, could very likely regress

Think a new staff might finally motivate Eloy from being a carefree goof to someone playing for potentially a quicker FA with $6M buyout  than he anticipated a few years ago. I am not going out on the limb for him, would take a substantial improvement projected by fangraphs, but even if he isn't traded this offseason, I think you need to smoke a lot of weed to believe it's realistic to pencil in 141 games played in 2024. He may be gone, in which case they will either play big suck at DH (Sheets) or perhaps get some guy like Vogelbach for cheap to put up .730-.750 OPS in the same Sheets platoon role, though with much better results (Sheets .690 career OPS).

Honestly, I'd say the same thing if someone said he'd play 120 last year, which he did, but his OPS took a major dump from his 2022 half season .858 rate (or even his rookie .828 rate over 122 Games) to .758. Part of that I'd accept is due to recovery from his surgery, but I also think a portion, perhaps a big portion, could be due to the fact he never hit well in a DH role (.811 overall over 436 games, .858 over 233 LF Games, .739 over 182 DH Games). Perhaps the full season at DH will help him accept it and improve in 2024.

Bench - There is still time, so this is also a wild card depending on who they add or trade away. However, these are brief bullets on why I expect their bench to be improved at little financial cost.

• Play at full strength. Hahn's team regularly played with a 24-25 man team. Utilizing the IL will help provide the team better depth. Hopefully Getz will do so.
• Get flexible players. Last year the bench typically included multiple DH types (Sheets, Burger). Have one catcher and three players who can adequately cover all eight positions for a short term stint. I don't care if they hit .650. They aren't killing the team defensively in right, center or the infield, they aren't setting up their shortstop for a long term IL stint, and they aren't limited to who they can pinch hit for because they need to be pulled the next half of inning for an actual defender.
• A legitimate fielding RF will also improve the bench, because you're not pulling a starter in the 6th inning for defensive replacements in most close games. 
• Lopez and Dejong give the depth to be decent bench options if you promote Montgomery or if one of their younger infielders becomes a starter. 

[ChiSox59]

The Sox still have not made this official, right? 

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/11/2023 at 9:32 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

This is my thought process, tying the fWAR projections to tangible reasons. I'm going most on the limb vs. Fangraphs for Yoan Moncada, whereas Fangraphs are conservative with the other players and are within reason, IMO, vs. improvement with no reasonable expectations.

Catchers - I'm combining the two since this is basically a split season position. The 2023 Sox Catcher Slashline over 162 was .196 / .264 / .310 (league worst) with a middle of pack defensive rating (11.8 for 15th). The team projected combined 2024 catcher numbers are .214 / .283 / .355. Lee's projected .615 might be overly optimistic, but I do think they can cobble a .610-.630 OPS if Perez plays at least 30-40 games, which would be a strong improvement over their .574 OPS.

I also think the staff will be better prepared with Max Stassi who has always been praised for his framing, and from Angels reports and recommendations from former Angels coaches and now White Sox coaches (Matt Wise Bullpen and catching coach Drew Butera), and the fact Grandal was notorious for minimal pitcher game prep, this will be an upgrade. He should also help mentoring the rookies and if he is promoted Queto, who if promoted should significantly upgrade their collective offensive production.

Benintendi will continue to be a negative fielder, but there is slight projected improvement which I'm not sure will happen. The big improvement per Fangraphs will be increasing HRs from 5 to 12 and increasing BA from .262 to .270, both of which I believe have a decent chance of occurring.  2023 .262/.326/.356 -14.4 defense vs. 2024 projected .270/.339/.392 -7.2 defense.

Moncada will be motivated. His back appeared healthy and he hit strong to close out the season ((First Half .649 OPS, .vs. Second Half .788 (September / October .904). I understand it's an if, but if he is healthy for most of the year, I expect him to shut up the haters here and on CSN and his OPS will be in the .790-.820 range. This is a significant improvement from his projected .732 on Fan Graphs, and this is the player I am personally going on the limb for vs. relying by and large on Fangraph's projections / regression to the mean. Quote this post and laugh your ass off if I'm wrong and Yoan ends up playing 120 + games and hitting in the.710-730 OPS range like last year.

Vaughn enters his Age 26 season with a full year at 1B under his belt. Players typically peak in their mid to late 20s. He has been consistent with his OPS the past two years (.750 & .743), with Fangraphs projecting a reasonable improvement to .778, or about 30 points higher from his previous two seasons, with a four HR improvement (21 to 25). Like Abreu, he is one of the handful of players they can count on to remain in the lineup for just about the entire year. The slash line projections seem reasonable (2023 .258 / .314 / .429 vs, 2024 .262 / .324 / .454, the latter driven by 4 HR . 2 2B) so six extra base hits year over year.

DeJong  + Had a 0.3 fWAR, projected with a 0.4 fWAR. Anderson may finish higher in 2024, but even a 0.0 2024 fWAR at shortstop is a vast improvement based on the level of suck Tim delivered in 2023.

Right Field Wildcard - Fangraphs have .708 OPS for Colas, and .736 for Sheets for 2024. I don't have confidence in either, would take an improvement for Colas. Perhaps he'll improve now that he is a father and is focused on banking some money before being run out of baseball for not listening to his manager and coaches.

Frankly, I'd be fine if they sign some low cost guy who is a plus defender and can marginally hit (say .680-.720 OPS), yielding a 0 or marginally better fWAR player. Like Shortstop, that is a vast improvement over what they trotted out there both offensively and defensively. This is a very low bar Getz should be able to beat, with a bonus if Colas can be what some thought he could.

DH also a wildcard - Could improve, could very likely regress

Think a new staff might finally motivate Eloy from being a carefree goof to someone playing for potentially a quicker FA with $6M buyout  than he anticipated a few years ago. I am not going out on the limb for him, would take a substantial improvement projected by fangraphs, but even if he isn't traded this offseason, I think you need to smoke a lot of weed to believe it's realistic to pencil in 141 games played in 2024. He may be gone, in which case they will either play big suck at DH (Sheets) or perhaps get some guy like Vogelbach for cheap to put up .730-.750 OPS in the same Sheets platoon role, though with much better results (Sheets .690 career OPS).

Honestly, I'd say the same thing if someone said he'd play 120 last year, which he did, but his OPS took a major dump from his 2022 half season .858 rate (or even his rookie .828 rate over 122 Games) to .758. Part of that I'd accept is due to recovery from his surgery, but I also think a portion, perhaps a big portion, could be due to the fact he never hit well in a DH role (.811 overall over 436 games, .858 over 233 LF Games, .739 over 182 DH Games). Perhaps the full season at DH will help him accept it and improve in 2024.

Bench - There is still time, so this is also a wild card depending on who they add or trade away. However, these are brief bullets on why I expect their bench to be improved at little financial cost.

• Play at full strength. Hahn's team regularly played with a 24-25 man team. Utilizing the IL will help provide the team better depth. Hopefully Getz will do so.
• Get flexible players. Last year the bench typically included multiple DH types (Sheets, Burger). Have one catcher and three players who can adequately cover all eight positions for a short term stint. I don't care if they hit .650. They aren't killing the team defensively in right, center or the infield, they aren't setting up their shortstop for a long term IL stint, and they aren't limited to who they can pinch hit for because they need to be pulled the next half of inning for an actual defender.
• A legitimate fielding RF will also improve the bench, because you're not pulling a starter in the 6th inning for defensive replacements in most close games. 
• Lopez and Dejong give the depth to be decent bench options if you promote Montgomery or if one of their younger infielders becomes a starter. 

I still think it's an exercise in futility trying to project outcomes for oft injured and low OBP guys like Eloy,Moncada , Robert and Vaughn along with guys like Colas and Sosa.

I know projections are probability based but until these guys can stay healthy and can tell the difference between a ball and a strike a little better it will always prevent them from showing marked improvements from year to year and reaching sustainable and expected level of higher performance.

With the dumpster dives guys like DeJong , Lopez and Stassi what they contribute is almost strictly based on defense and helping the pitchers . Their offense completely negates their defense or positive War production. I don't think going from 29th to 28th in position player f or bWar means anything as far as wins and losses are concerned when you are still talking about somewhere around 100 losses.

I could see going through with your projections if this team actually had a chance to improve by even 10 more wins but I'm afraid they don't.

The pitching may end up the worst in baseball. DeJong , Lopez and Stassi can't prevent balls from flying over the fence or smashed all over the park.

I don't need to convince myself that what Getz has accomplished so far is meaningful in terms of wins and losses in 2024. It isn't.

 

[zisk]

Soroka and Fedde, and then dear lord , 3 days of dreadie.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

On 12/11/2023 at 4:38 PM, Balta1701 said:

No I did not, I guess I was looking at his 2022 and that was just about the 0 WAR that Grandal put up in 2023. That makes it look even worse! Thanks!

Dude didnt even play and was still less worse than Yaz. 

[Balta1701]

 

[South Side Hit Men]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I still think it's an exercise in futility trying to project outcomes for oft injured and low OBP guys like Eloy,Moncada , Robert and Vaughn along with guys like Colas and Sosa.

I know projections are probability based but until these guys can stay healthy and can tell the difference between a ball and a strike a little better it will always prevent them from showing marked improvements from year to year and reaching sustainable and expected level of higher performance.

With the dumpster dives guys like DeJong , Lopez and Stassi what they contribute is almost strictly based on defense and helping the pitchers . Their offense completely negates their defense or positive War production. I don't think going from 29th to 28th in position player f or bWar means anything as far as wins and losses are concerned when you are still talking about somewhere around 100 losses.

I could see going through with your projections if this team actually had a chance to improve by even 10 more wins but I'm afraid they don't.

The pitching may end up the worst in baseball. DeJong , Lopez and Stassi can't prevent balls from flying over the fence or smashed all over the park.

I don't need to convince myself that what Getz has accomplished so far is meaningful in terms of wins and losses in 2024. It isn't.

It's still too early to tell their 2024 outlook. If they keep Cease and Eloy, and add an acceptable RFer (acceptable defender, .720 OPS) and perhaps a starter or two and some relievers, they very well could be nearing .500 next year. Not a great goal, but we would get baseball much more enjoyable to follow / listen to / watch.

If the rest of their offseason is dumping anyone else with value for prospects and picking up reclamation projects and scraps as they have the past four weeks, then yes I am with you. In that scenario, they likely will finish in the 60 win range, with nothing this offseason significant beyond whatever prospects are acquired.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

On 12/11/2023 at 3:40 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

He's just a flip candidate, nothing more, nothing less.  For our purposes this year, that's fine.

I don't think he's a flip candidate at all. I think he's here for the benefit of the young pitchers and that doesn't end in July

[caulfield12]

15 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

I don't think he's a flip candidate at all. I think he's here for the benefit of the young pitchers and that doesn't end in July

Well, 33 year old catchers have such a limited shelf life.  Maybe the year off will rejuvenate him physically.

Grandal basically fell directly off a cliff, but he was a regular for most of his career, compared to Stassi's baseline.

 

All that said, experience means a heckuva lot at playoff time.

IMO, Gary Sanchez would have been a better flip candidate because the majority of his value comes from offense.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, 33 year old catchers have such a limited shelf life.  Maybe the year off will rejuvenate him physically.

Grandal basically fell directly off a cliff, but he was a regular for most of his career, compared to Stassi's baseline.

 

All that said, experience means a heckuva lot at playoff time.

IMO, Gary Sanchez would have been a better flip candidate because the majority of his value comes from offense.

Exactly. Flip candidate catchers are usually due to their bat, not their glove.

[caulfield12]

50 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Exactly. Flip candidate catchers are usually due to their bat, not their glove.

Unless your defense is to the level of Maldonado about 4-5 years ago...and you need to pair that guy up with certain pitchers in your playoff rotation (like when the Dodgers dumped Grandal due to defensive concerns).

With pitch framing disappearing and robot/AI umps closer and closer, you're looking for veteran game managers and throwers with quick releases who can instill additional confidence in any pitching staff, veteran or Years 1-3/4 in terms of experience.

Edited December 15, 2023 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

Still think this team for under $130M can play a respectable season, have some assets at the deadline that could yield well with a longer term goal to field a solid core by 2026.

Opening Day 26/40 Man Roster

Projected 2024 OPS / FIP & fWAR

$121.4M Total Payroll before possible bullpen / bench / starter upgrades

Starting Lineup (9) $80.8M

1. LF A. Benintendi .731 (L) 1.3 $17.1M
2. CF L. Robert .807 (R) 3.4 $12.5M
3. DH E. Jimenez .821 (R) 1.7 $13.8M
4. 3B Y. Moncada .732 (S) 2.2 $24.8M
5. 1B A. Vaughn .778 (R) 1.8 $3.5M
6. RF K. Lewis .724 (R) 0.3 $2.5M
7. C M. Stassi .637 (R) 0.6 $0.8M
8. 2B N. Lopez .645 (L) 0.6 $4.0M
9. SS P. DeJong .651 (R) 0.4 $1.8M

Bench (4) $3.8M

• C K. Lee .615 (R) -0.1; INF L Sosa .698 (R) 0.2; INF/OF Z. Remillard .621 (R) 0.0; OF J. Davis .685 (R) 0.1

Minor League Depth (7) C C. Perez; 1B G. Sheets; INF R. Gonzalez; INF J. Rodriguez; 3B B. Ramos; SS C. Montgomery; OF A. Colas

Rotation (6) $31.0M

1. D. Cease 4.27 (R) 2.7 $8.7M
2. M. Soroka 4.57 (R) 1.3 $3.2M
3. A. Wood 4.47 (L) 1.0 $7.0M
4. M. Kopech 5.32 (R) 0.6 $3.1M
5. E. Fedde 5.33 (R) 0.6 $7.5M
6. T. Toussaint 5.02 (R) 0.7 $1.5M

Minor League Depth (2) J. Eder (L); J. Scholtens (R)

Bullpen $5.8M (7) - Could replace a few with low cost pickups before Spring Training

1. G. Crochet 4.02 (L) 0.7 $1.0M
2. G. Santos 4.01 (R) 0.7 $0.8M
3. M. Foster 4.92 (R) 0.0 $0.8M
4. T. Banks 4.35 (L) 0.2 $0.8M
5. D. Garcia 5.39 (R) -0.4 $0.8M
6. J. Lambert 5.11 (R) -0.1 $0.8M
7. L. Patino 5.27 (R) -0.2 $0.8M

Minor League Depth: D. Cronin (R); S. Drohan (L); D. Martin (R); C. Mena (R); J. Shuster (L); A. Speas (R)

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Still think this team for under $130M can play a respectable season, have some assets at the deadline that could yield well with a longer term goal to field a solid core by 2026.

Opening Day 26/40 Man Roster

Projected 2024 OPS / FIP & fWAR

$121.4M Total Payroll before possible bullpen / bench / starter upgrades

Starting Lineup (9) $80.8M

1. LF A. Benintendi .731 (L) 1.3 $17.1M
2. CF L. Robert .807 (R) 3.4 $12.5M
3. DH E. Jimenez .821 (R) 1.7 $13.8M
4. 3B Y. Moncada .732 (S) 2.2 $24.8M
5. 1B A. Vaughn .778 (R) 1.8 $3.5M
6. RF K. Lewis .724 (R) 0.3 $2.5M
7. C M. Stassi .637 (R) 0.6 $0.8M
8. 2B N. Lopez .645 (L) 0.6 $4.0M
9. SS P. DeJong .651 (R) 0.4 $1.8M

Bench (4) $3.8M

• C K. Lee .615 (R) -0.1; INF L Sosa .698 (R) 0.2; INF/OF Z. Remillard .621 (R) 0.0; OF J. Davis .685 (R) 0.1

Minor League Depth (7) C C. Perez; 1B G. Sheets; INF R. Gonzalez; INF J. Rodriguez; 3B B. Ramos; SS C. Montgomery; OF A. Colas

Rotation (6) $31.0M

1. D. Cease 4.27 (R) 2.7 $8.7M
2. M. Soroka 4.57 (R) 1.3 $3.2M
3. A. Wood 4.47 (L) 1.0 $7.0M
4. M. Kopech 5.32 (R) 0.6 $3.1M
5. E. Fedde 5.33 (R) 0.6 $7.5M
6. T. Toussaint 5.02 (R) 0.7 $1.5M

Minor League Depth (2) J. Eder (L); J. Scholtens (R)

Bullpen $5.8M (7) - Could replace a few with low cost pickups before Spring Training

1. G. Crochet 4.02 (L) 0.7 $1.0M
2. G. Santos 4.01 (R) 0.7 $0.8M
3. M. Foster 4.92 (R) 0.0 $0.8M
4. T. Banks 4.35 (L) 0.2 $0.8M
5. D. Garcia 5.39 (R) -0.4 $0.8M
6. J. Lambert 5.11 (R) -0.1 $0.8M
7. L. Patino 5.27 (R) -0.2 $0.8M

Minor League Depth: D. Cronin (R); S. Drohan (L); D. Martin (R); C. Mena (R); J. Shuster (L); A. Speas (R)

Nearly $70 million tied up in top four hitters.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Nearly $70 million tied up in top four hitters.

Benintendi is the only one that was an unforced error. People complain about Eloy and Yoan, but they are on the tail end of team friendly deals. The problem is the Sox wasted those savings years on a bunch of old shitty overpriced guys.

Robert Jr. is a massive underpay at $12.5M compared to his market value.

The Sox should have focused on keeping nearly all of their cost controlled players and added around the margins, but they instead dumped several for end of line players like Steak Dinner and Kimbrel and failed miserably.