What are the Sox trying to do here, really?

[Soxfest]

Welcome to baseball hell brought to you by a POS owner, who is not serious about winning.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Soxfest

[chitownsportsfan]

We're stealth tanking. While loudly cutting payroll. Welcome to our new reality. Same as the old reality really, just more depressing on the obvious face.

[Jerksticks]

Maybe the goal shouldn’t even be to win the World Series, ever. 
 

We’re so lucky to be in a division where nobody really spends.  It happens sometimes with the Tigers, but generally, it’s a cheap division.  We don’t have to overcome a powerhouse.  
 

The bar for sustained success in the AL Central is to develop players consistently.  That’s it.  We do that worse than the others and use money to bridge that gap, and still lose.  All we have to do is develop as good and then spend a little more and it’s ours.  Every year.  f***.  
 

Why can’t we dominate this b****

[wrathofhahn]

Jerry has spent. Was it wisely? No. Did he meddle and get involved? Yes. But he has increased payroll it didn't work because we brought in non-impact guys essentially his hand picked people wasted a ton of his money.

The problem is does Jerry or Getz have stomach to spend money in the right areas. On IFA. On rookie pool. On signing buy low option that can be flipped later. Doing a deal like Atlanta did essentially buying a longterm asset for shortterm cost.

That remains to be seen.

[Jerksticks]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We're stealth tanking. While loudly cutting payroll. Welcome to our new reality. Same as the old reality really, just more depressing on the obvious face.

There’s a path to have a pretty bad ass offense though, probably as soon as next year.  Mayo & Kjerstad for Cease maybe puts us at least a top 15 offense immediately.   I’m probably watching and interested at the very least. 

[South Side Hit Men]

 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

The problem is does Jerry or Getz have stomach to spend money in the right areas. On IFA. On rookie pool. On signing buy low option that can be flipped later. Doing a deal like Atlanta did essentially buying a longterm asset for shortterm cost.

That remains to be seen.

They spend their entire domestic pool every year. Depending on the 1st rounder, they go right up to the "lose next year's 1st round pick" limit. 

I don't know if you're referring to Atlanta or the White Sox buying long term assets for short term costs. The Sox get two rookie pitchers and Soroka for Bummer. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

And if we're being totally honest...how did spending like Steve Cohen work out for Steve Cohen last year? They wound up selling off their most expensive pieces and footing a large portion of the bill to bring in prospects.

I’d rather have an owner like Cohen than the flaming pile of human excrement that is Jerry Riensdorf.

[thedoctor]

they’ve stopped denying who they really are, which is good. not that anyone should be encouraged or optimistic about it. 

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

There’s a path to have a pretty bad ass offense though, probably as soon as next year.  Mayo & Kjerstad for Cease maybe puts us at least a top 15 offense immediately.   I’m probably watching and interested at the very least. 

Top 15 in the AL or majors, lol?

Expecting way too much out of rookies…and that’s assuming Eloy is gone, too.

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, WestEddy said:

They spend their entire domestic pool every year. Depending on the 1st rounder, they go right up to the "lose next year's 1st round pick" limit. 

I don't know if you're referring to Atlanta or the White Sox buying long term assets for short term costs. The Sox get two rookie pitchers and Soroka for Bummer. 

Except none of those guys were going to make the Atlanta roster at their projected salaries…25-33% Soroka.

[Texsox]

Jerry is working hard to sell the team to a group who will move it to Nashville. It's the ultimate JR move. 

[caulfield12]

9 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

Jerry wants to pummel us and grind us into the dirt before he eventually moves the team to Nashville or at least in his mind that’s what he thinks he’s doing. He hates us because we hate him. Jerry “Nero” Reinsdorf is pissed and he’s taking everyone down with him.

Caligula lol?  Valley of the Blow Up Dolls...courtesy of Ozzie and Swisher.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Jerry is working hard to sell the team to a group who will move it to Nashville. It's the ultimate JR move. 

But still keep the Bulls?

And his sports media empire...with just Bulls and Blackhawks and parking lots?

[LittleHurtCG]

11 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

We're stealth tanking. While loudly cutting payroll. Welcome to our new reality. Same as the old reality really, just more depressing on the obvious face.

They can't really pull another tank job though with the new drafting setup. A half decade of losing 100 plus games like Hoston did a decade ago is no longer an option. 

It's back to the rebuilding on the fly days of 2008-2015. The more things change the more they stay the same if you are a Sox fan. 

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Except none of those guys were going to make the Atlanta roster at their projected salaries…25-33% Soroka.

The question posed was whether Jerry R. had the "stomach" to spend in the right areas. I'm sure he's not trying to lose. And I'm sure that if he had a trusted GM telling him he needed a larger stats department, he would do that. We act like JR won't let anyone in his organization use cell phones, or whatnot. 

Atlanta sees themselves as competing for a World Series in 2024. There's no room for Soroka. The Sox are rebuilding. He fills a hole nicely. 

[Kyyle23]

11 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Jerry has spent. Was it wisely? No. Did he meddle and get involved? Yes. But he has increased payroll it didn't work because we brought in non-impact guys essentially his hand picked people wasted a ton of his money.

The problem is does Jerry or Getz have stomach to spend money in the right areas. On IFA. On rookie pool. On signing buy low option that can be flipped later. Doing a deal like Atlanta did essentially buying a longterm asset for shortterm cost.

That remains to be seen.

We have watched him do the same s%*# for 40 years.  Time for us to stop expecting a different result 

[Dam8610]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

The question posed was whether Jerry R. had the "stomach" to spend in the right areas. I'm sure he's not trying to lose. And I'm sure that if he had a trusted GM telling him he needed a larger stats department, he would do that. We act like JR won't let anyone in his organization use cell phones, or whatnot. 

Atlanta sees themselves as competing for a World Series in 2024. There's no room for Soroka. The Sox are rebuilding. He fills a hole nicely. 

He doesn't believe in spending in the right areas. If you want proof of that, compare the size of the White Sox scouting department to other MLB teams, or compare their spending on minor league wellness and development to other teams. Both are dead last or close, and these are areas where spending a fraction of a MLB payroll (think like 10%) could make massive competitive advantage differences. If he truly was just cheap, he would pump money into those things. But it's not that he's just cheap, he's cheap and stubborn to the point that he only wants to win if it's his way. Unfortunately for us, "his way" doesn't work in the modern MLB.

[Lip Man 1]

6 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

He doesn't believe in spending in the right areas. If you want proof of that, compare the size of the White Sox scouting department to other MLB teams, or compare their spending on minor league wellness and development to other teams. Both are dead last or close, and these are areas where spending a fraction of a MLB payroll (think like 10%) could make massive competitive advantage differences. If he truly was just cheap, he would pump money into those things. But it's not that he's just cheap, he's cheap and stubborn to the point that he only wants to win if it's his way. Unfortunately for us, "his way" doesn't work in the modern MLB.

Exactly correct. 

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

Jerry is working hard to sell the team to a group who will move it to Nashville. It's the ultimate JR move. 

Not happening.

https://soxmachine.com/2023/12/jerry-reinsdorf-meets-with-nashville-mayor-who-doesnt-seem-likely-to-help-him/

[Texsox]

I hope not. But isn't it always not happening until it does?

[SpringfieldFan]

Back in 1984 in the USFL the entire Chicago team swapped locations with the Arizona team leaving only the team identities behind. Yeah, they need to just do an Arizona-Chicago MLB swap like now.

[spiderman]

They aren't willing to spend on any significant free agents OR their own talent so they are capped already to only be competitive as long as their minor league system produces talent on a consistent basis. They use free agency to complement their roster, but the chances of adding impact talent is low.

They are cutting payroll right now and the roster looks awful on paper.

They probably won't fully rebuild, but will do some middling where they improve the defense, patch together a pitching staff and try to hang around in the AL Central.

There is no desire to win, it's more about being competitive.

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, spiderman said:

They aren't willing to spend on any significant free agents OR their own talent so they are capped already to only be competitive as long as their minor league system produces talent on a consistent basis. They use free agency to complement their roster, but the chances of adding impact talent is low.

They are cutting payroll right now and the roster looks awful on paper.

They probably won't fully rebuild, but will do some middling where they improve the defense, patch together a pitching staff and try to hang around in the AL Central.

There is no desire to win, it's more about being competitive.

Yea, I don't think they care about being competitive either. They care about the illusion of it, but not actually putting together a team that can win 82 or so games in order to satisfy some measure of "competitive". If they were trying to be competitive they would be adding 30 million in payroll and wouldn't be trying to trade Cease.

They are trying to cut payroll and do some half assed "rebuild" that has like a .1% chance of working while paying lip service to "competitive".

[FloydBannister1983]

14 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Jerry has spent. Was it wisely? No. Did he meddle and get involved? Yes. But he has increased payroll it didn't work because we brought in non-impact guys essentially his hand picked people wasted a ton of his money.

The problem is does Jerry or Getz have stomach to spend money in the right areas. On IFA. On rookie pool. On signing buy low option that can be flipped later. Doing a deal like Atlanta did essentially buying a longterm asset for shortterm cost.

That remains to be seen.

Spending a lot piecemeal on shorter term contracts is a lot different than committing, wisely, Bryce Harper type money. It’s cheap because you get out from under it quicker.