Max Stassi Acquired

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

and RF, 3B, LF, DH and 1B.   Every guy underperformed last year except one. They were 29th in runs scored.  All the new guys have to do is play to their averages and they can be a better offense than last year.  That's how fucking awful that team was. 

We still need some legit bats no matter what. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

18 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

We still need some legit bats no matter what. 

Those will come in the Cease trade.

[SoCalChiSox]

17 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Those will come in the Cease trade.

Are things with BAL getting closer?

[SCCWS]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Those will come in the Cease trade.

My guess is if Cease is traded we should get a legit bat and a legit SP but after that my guess is a Class A prospect. 

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

and RF, 3B, LF, DH and 1B.   Every guy underperformed last year except one. They were 29th in runs scored.  All the new guys have to do is play to their averages and they can be a better offense than last year.  That's how fucking awful that team was. 

Yep. The Sox are projected to have a better lineup this season, would say Robert the only player to expect a minor regression.

fWAR 2023 Actual vs. 2024 Projected (Top 9 Actual / Projected Playing Time)

• +0,7 Catcher: -0.1 Yasmani Grandal 118 G vs. 0.6 Max Stassi 70 G
• +1.5 First Baseman: 0.3 Andrew Vaughn 152 G vs, 1.8 Andrew Vaughn 147 G
• -0.5 Second Baseman: 1.1 Elvis Andrus 112 G vs. 0.6 Nicky Lopez 83 G
• +1.0 Third Baseman: 1.2 Yoan Moncada 92 G vs. 2.2 Yoan Moncada 144 G
• +0.9 Shortstop: -0.5 Tim Anderson 123 G vs. 0.4 Paul DeJong 68 G
• +1.4 Leftfielder: 0.0 Andrew Benintendi 151 G vs. 1.4 Andrew Benintendi 139 G
• -1.6 Centerfielder: 5.0 Luis Robert Junior 145 G vs. 3.4 Luis Robert Junior 149 G
• +1.6 Rightfielder: -1.4 Gavin Sheets 118 G vs. 0.2 Oscar Colas 97 G
• +1.8 Designated Hitter: 0.4 Eloy Jimenez 120 G vs. 2.2 Eloy Jimenez 141 G

Projected improvement: +6.8 fWAR (6.0 2023 vs. 12.8 2024)

[caulfield12]

36 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yep. The Sox are projected to have a better lineup this season, would say Robert the only player to expect a minor regression.

fWAR 2023 Actual vs. 2024 Projected (Top 9 Actual / Projected Playing Time)

• +0,7 Catcher: -0.1 Yasmani Grandal 118 G vs. 0.6 Max Stassi 70 G
• +1.5 First Baseman: 0.3 Andrew Vaughn 152 G vs, 1.8 Andrew Vaughn 147 G
• -0.5 Second Baseman: 1.1 Elvis Andrus 112 G vs. 0.6 Nicky Lopez 83 G
• +1.0 Third Baseman: 1.2 Yoan Moncada 92 G vs. 2.2 Yoan Moncada 144 G
• +0.9 Shortstop: -0.5 Tim Anderson 123 G vs. 0.4 Paul DeJong 68 G
• +1.4 Leftfielder: 0.0 Andrew Benintendi 151 G vs. 1.4 Andrew Benintendi 139 G
• -1.6 Centerfielder: 5.0 Luis Robert Junior 145 G vs. 3.4 Luis Robert Junior 149 G
• +1.6 Rightfielder: -1.4 Gavin Sheets 118 G vs. 0.2 Oscar Colas 97 G
• +1.8 Designated Hitter: 0.4 Eloy Jimenez 120 G vs. 2.2 Eloy Jimenez 141 G

Projected improvement: +6.8 fWAR (6.0 2023 vs. 12.8 2024)

The obvious problems are RF, whether they hold onto Jimenez and pretty much the entire rotation and bullpen after a Cease trade and with Santos likely out/possible surgery.

Finding it hard for some reason to imagine Eloy staying healthy (and putting up a 2.2 as a DH, but why not dream?) and Moncada also staying entirely healthy, but we shall see I guess.

Not sure how many tickets they'll see...but they're going to "lose" significantly less money with this roster approach.   Not that most fans care about JR's pocketbook in the least.   They simply care about having a competitive team that plays the game both hard and cleanly.

Edited December 11, 2023 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yep. The Sox are projected to have a better lineup this season, would say Robert the only player to expect a minor regression.

fWAR 2023 Actual vs. 2024 Projected (Top 9 Actual / Projected Playing Time)

• +0,7 Catcher: -0.1 Yasmani Grandal 118 G vs. 0.6 Max Stassi 70 G
• +1.5 First Baseman: 0.3 Andrew Vaughn 152 G vs, 1.8 Andrew Vaughn 147 G
• -0.5 Second Baseman: 1.1 Elvis Andrus 112 G vs. 0.6 Nicky Lopez 83 G
• +1.0 Third Baseman: 1.2 Yoan Moncada 92 G vs. 2.2 Yoan Moncada 144 G
• +0.9 Shortstop: -0.5 Tim Anderson 123 G vs. 0.4 Paul DeJong 68 G
• +1.4 Leftfielder: 0.0 Andrew Benintendi 151 G vs. 1.4 Andrew Benintendi 139 G
• -1.6 Centerfielder: 5.0 Luis Robert Junior 145 G vs. 3.4 Luis Robert Junior 149 G
• +1.6 Rightfielder: -1.4 Gavin Sheets 118 G vs. 0.2 Oscar Colas 97 G
• +1.8 Designated Hitter: 0.4 Eloy Jimenez 120 G vs. 2.2 Eloy Jimenez 141 G

Projected improvement: +6.8 fWAR (6.0 2023 vs. 12.8 2024)

Of course it's not that simple . Take the way you did RF.   You have Sheets at -1.4 . So you're saying Sheets played 118 games in RF in 2023 and in those games he was a  -1.4 fWar which I assume is his total War (offense & defense) playing RF. So what about the times anyone else played RF? Where is 2023 Colas fWar when he played RF ?  I think to get the full War you have to have it for all 162 games of actual WAR in 2023 at every position vs actual projected War in 2024 at all positions which isn't possible because you don't know who will be playing RF next year.

You used Colas .2 projection for 97 games in RF in 2024 to conclude that as a whole RF is projected to have a 1.6 net WAR increase for 2024.

The fact is doing what you did makes no sense at all. We have no idea if Colas is going to play 97 games in RF and how much WAr he will have as if he's the only one who will be playing there and come to the conclusion that the position as a whole will be 1.6 War better than last year.

No one bothers to check what you are doing. Projection systems can't be used to compare one players real stats in 118 games against another player's projected stats in 97 games and conclude that the position as a whole is projected to be better or worse for the whole season.

The only ones that make any sense are the ones where the same player is projected to be at the same position for roughly the same amount of games covering the majority of the season . Robert vs Robert, Benintendi, Vaughn and Eloy.

Edited December 11, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[South Side Hit Men]

29 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Of course it's not that simple . Take the way you did RF.   You have Sheets at -1.4 . So you're saying Sheets played 118 games in RF in 2023 and in those games he was a  -1.4 fWar which I assume is his total War (offense & defense) playing RF. So what about the times anyone else played RF? Where is 2023 Colas fWar when he played RF ?  I think to get the full War you have to have it for all 162 games of actual WAR in 2023 at every position vs actual projected War in 2024 at all positions which isn't possible because you don't know who will be playing RF next year.

You used Colas .2 projection for 97 games in RF in 2024 to conclude that as a whole RF is projected to have a 1.6 net WAR increase for 2024.

The fact is doing what you did makes no sense at all. We have no idea if Colas is going to play 97 games in RF and how much WAr he will have as if he's the only one who will be playing there and come to the conclusion that the position as a whole will be 1.6 War better than last year.

No one bothers to check what you are doing. Projection systems can't be used to compare one players real stats in 118 games against another player's projected stats in 97 games and conclude that the position as a whole is projected to be better or worse for the whole season.

The only ones that make any sense are the ones where the same player is projected to be at the same position for roughly the same amount of games covering the majority of the season . Robert vs Robert, Benintendi, Vaughn and Eloy.

Dude, chill. This is a snapshot in time, there are still over three months until OD. I merely presented the current fangraph projections.

The point of the exercise is the fact the Sox dumped the three negative fWAR players this offseason, will likely have year over year improvements by at least a few of their returnees. Not even Getz at this point knows who will play RF, Eloy may be traded, etc. Also to counteract the narrative that the Sox will have worse hitting in 2024.

Rather discuss current roster status and projections and actual player acquisitions then the endless trade rumor, media, foodie account rumors, and the 100th Garfein podcast saying the Sox need leaders, culture, Whit Merrifield and Sal Perez.

[South Side Hit Men]

52 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The obvious problems are RF, whether they hold onto Jimenez and pretty much the entire rotation and bullpen after a Cease trade and with Santos likely out/possible surgery.

Finding it hard for some reason to imagine Eloy staying healthy (and putting up a 2.2 as a DH, but why not dream?) and Moncada also staying entirely healthy, but we shall see I guess.

Not sure how many tickets they'll see...but they're going to "lose" significantly less money with this roster approach.   Not that most fans care about JR's pocketbook in the least.   They simply care about having a competitive team that plays the game both hard and cleanly.

If they trade Eloy, I see them starting Sheets in DH vs. RH. Was concerned by Getz' comment last week that Sheets would be acceptable in RF, which was the biggest glaring defensive hole requiring fixing this offseason. Obviously he has to support someone on his current roster until a replacement comes in.

I hope Colas turns it around next season, and can be called up in May or June and be at least an adequate starter as expected. I don't want to see Sheets for even an inning in RF unless there is some type of catastrophic emergency in which multiple players are injured during a game and he is the last option beyond catchers and pitchers.

https://sports.yahoo.com/chris-getz-considering-keeping-gavin-052516526.html

 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Yep. The Sox are projected to have a better lineup this season, would say Robert the only player to expect a minor regression.

fWAR 2023 Actual vs. 2024 Projected (Top 9 Actual / Projected Playing Time)

• +0,7 Catcher: -0.1 Yasmani Grandal 118 G vs. 0.6 Max Stassi 70 G
• +1.5 First Baseman: 0.3 Andrew Vaughn 152 G vs, 1.8 Andrew Vaughn 147 G
• -0.5 Second Baseman: 1.1 Elvis Andrus 112 G vs. 0.6 Nicky Lopez 83 G
• +1.0 Third Baseman: 1.2 Yoan Moncada 92 G vs. 2.2 Yoan Moncada 144 G
• +0.9 Shortstop: -0.5 Tim Anderson 123 G vs. 0.4 Paul DeJong 68 G
• +1.4 Leftfielder: 0.0 Andrew Benintendi 151 G vs. 1.4 Andrew Benintendi 139 G
• -1.6 Centerfielder: 5.0 Luis Robert Junior 145 G vs. 3.4 Luis Robert Junior 149 G
• +1.6 Rightfielder: -1.4 Gavin Sheets 118 G vs. 0.2 Oscar Colas 97 G
• +1.8 Designated Hitter: 0.4 Eloy Jimenez 120 G vs. 2.2 Eloy Jimenez 141 G

Projected improvement: +6.8 fWAR (6.0 2023 vs. 12.8 2024)

I like the fact that the upgrade over Benintendi is Benintendi and the upgrade over Eloy is Eloy and that’s almost half the projected improvement. And yeah I can’t even tell who is projected in RF.

[T R U]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I like the fact that the upgrade over Benintendi is Benintendi and the upgrade over Eloy is Eloy and that’s almost half the projected improvement. And yeah I can’t even tell who is projected in RF.

I was just about to say this. Great, so all of our under performers are going to magically be good now, that’s wishful thinking. 

[greg775]

Is Max known as a good clubhouse guy? He has a neat name.

[oldsox]

12 hours ago, T R U said:

I was just about to say this. Great, so all of our under performers are going to magically be good now, that’s wishful thinking.

I'm not sure.  They should both improve.  I think Robert can, too. And, Vaughn, too.

[WestEddy]

37 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I'm not sure.  They should both improve.  I think Robert can, too. And, Vaughn, too.

And if the clubhouse was such a house of horrors, just removing a bit of the negativity might get everybody pushing in the same direction. 

[GreenSox]

16 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I like the fact that the upgrade over Benintendi is Benintendi and the upgrade over Eloy is Eloy and that’s almost half the projected improvement. And yeah I can’t even tell who is projected in RF.

While there's a certain degree of rabbit's foot rubbing to expect these players to improve,  it's not like these players were past-their-prime veterans who could have been reasonably expected to have down years.

The Sox had an inordinate number of dog years from players who should be in their prime.   The young players didn't progress a lick (and some regressed).
I think it's reasonable to expect some improvement from the incumbents in 2024.

[Dick Allen]

If the problem with Moncada is attitude and effort, the next 2 seasons should be his best, as he will be playing for a $25 million option in 2024 or contract, and playing for a contract in 2025.Plus, he's in his peak years. So there's that. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Dick Allen

[chitownsportsfan]

16 hours ago, greg775 said:

Is Max known as a good clubhouse guy? He has a neat name.

He has a porn star name.

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the problem with Moncada is attitude and effort, the next 2 seasons should be his best, as he will be playing for a $25 million option in 2024 or contract, and playing for a contract in 2025.Plus, he's in his peak years. So there's that. 

the problem with moncada is a bad back. when he does this for the rest of his career before retiring at 32 people will get it.

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

While there's a certain degree of rabbit's foot rubbing to expect these players to improve,  it's not like these players were past-their-prime veterans who could have been reasonably expected to have down years.

The Sox had an inordinate number of dog years from players who should be in their prime.   The young players didn't progress a lick (and some regressed).
I think it's reasonable to expect some improvement from the incumbents in 2024.

That has been my slight defense of Hahn. To have as many players have dog years as we did was hard to predict. They play average we are a playoff team. The improve and we're a step away. 

Instead moving trucks are loading up. 

[Superstar Lamar]

55 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He has a porn star name.

east german secret police

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

While there's a certain degree of rabbit's foot rubbing to expect these players to improve,  it's not like these players were past-their-prime veterans who could have been reasonably expected to have down years.

The Sox had an inordinate number of dog years from players who should be in their prime.   The young players didn't progress a lick (and some regressed).
I think it's reasonable to expect some improvement from the incumbents in 2024.

No one who watched the White Sox last year thought these guys were unlucky though - across the entire lineup there was a systematic reason why they stank. They all followed the same script - get more aggressive, put the ball in play, don’t worry about patience or being selective. Even the guy who made this work based on his physical gifts has the same flaw. 

Eloy is not going to be a better player by getting more aggressive and beating the ball into the ground. Vaughn got more aggressive and got worse. Anderson has one of the lowest launch angles in baseball and was super aggressive. They were swinging at everything regardless of whether it was a strike. Highest swing rate in baseball, easily the highest rate of swinging at pitches out of the zone. They had an OBP rivaling the Royals for a reason.

These guys got worse because they had a bad approach, it was being taught at an organizational level. 

Has anyone heard Chris Getz say a single thing about having a better approach, being more patient, being smarter, controlling the plate, taking bad pitches, or any of that? Naw, he’s talked about bunting.

While I will cut him some slack on the personnel, so far there has been no sign that they consider this a problem they need to fix or understand how it is their biggest offensive issue. Eloy will not suddenly get better if he is more aggressive next year but bunts more.

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

the problem with moncada is a bad back. when he does this for the rest of his career before retiring at 32 people will get it.

That's a valid point. We will find out in 2024. He was pretty good his last 40 games.

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

 

These guys got worse because they had a bad approach, it was being taught at an organizational level. 

Has anyone heard Chris Getz say a single thing about having a better approach, being more patient, being smarter, controlling the plate, taking bad pitches, or any of that? Naw, he’s talked about bunting.

While I will cut him some slack on the personnel, so far there has been no sign that they consider this a problem they need to fix or understand how it is their biggest offensive issue. Eloy will not suddenly get better if he is more aggressive next year but bunts more.

Right - they've had a bad approach since the beginning.  That was a KW thing, popularized by Ozzie; Hahn was too much of a cuck to do anything about.  They've done what they've done with a bad approach - doesn't explain last year's collapse.  The only exception might be Moncada - he got worse when they started beating on him about called Ks.
I have heard Barfield talk about a better approach.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

That has been my slight defense of Hahn. To have as many players have dog years as we did was hard to predict. They play average we are a playoff team. The improve and we're a step away. 

Instead moving trucks are loading up. 

Unexpected:

• Robert stayed healthy and enjoyed a great CF season.
• The drastic drop-off to negative fWAR players at SS and LF were unexpected.

Expected:

• People should have expected a drop-off between MVP 1B Jose and Vaughn still learning and growing.
• C, RF and 2B were annual glaring holes beyond Grandal raking the Summer of 2021 should have been expected.
• Would say these three unexpected factors (Burgers amazing hot stretch, 3B Yoan sucking, DH Eloy healthy and sucking) were individually unexpected, but as a whole the net production by the three pretty much fell into expectations (14th overall ranked DH, 14th overall ranked 3B).

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Unexpected:

• Robert stayed healthy and enjoyed a great CF season.
• The drastic drop-off to negative fWAR players at SS and LF were unexpected.

Expected:

• People should have expected a drop-off between MVP 1B Jose and Vaughn still learning and growing.
• C, RF and 2B were annual glaring holes beyond Grandal raking the Summer of 2021 should have been expected.
• Would say these three unexpected factors (Burgers amazing hot stretch, 3B Yoan sucking, DH Eloy healthy and sucking) were individually unexpected, but as a whole the net production by the three pretty much fell into expectations (14th overall ranked DH, 14th overall ranked 3B).

 

 

 

 

Literally everyone was expecting Vaughn to be better last year with the new hitting coach and getting out of the OF. Like even I agreed with that, how many people said that the reason his second halves were worse was that his legs were wearing out in the OF? Vaughn not getting better at all should count as unexpected. But we should expect it this year.

Moncada being bad was unexpected? He was even worse in 2022, maybe we should stop expecting big improvements there and just be happy it’s the last contract year.