Yoshinobu Yamamoto got $325 million 12 years from Dodgers (+posting fee)

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

And yes, we can argue until we're blue in the face as to whether the Sox could. Of course they could but there's no league incentive for them to do so really (meaning our owner stinks, so tough us). They try to punish tanking in a league where tanking isn't even really valuable. One player isn't turning a roster around in baseball.

I'll add this too though, as always not my money so I'd be fine with Sox signing this but for me, this is a crazy contract imo but other pitchers probably happy to see it. 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Exactly, pretty soon more teams in bigger markets will lock in their spot annually because that's been the trend already. There's not a single team in the AL central who actually compete for elite talent.

Royce Lewis Correa and Buxton were all considered elite…Jhoan Duran has the potential to be an elite closer.

Miguel Sano was considered the best player in the Dominican at age 16 and the Twins won the bidding war.

 

The Giants otoh have never signed a true superstar, just Barry Bonds and internal free agents until JungHo Kim…who most consider to be more of a complementary player and not a true star, either.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Royce Lewis Correa and Buxton were all considered elite…Jhoan Duran has the potential to be an elite closer.

Miguel Sano was considered the best player in the Dominican at age 16 and the Twins won the bidding war.

 

The Giants otoh have never signed a true superstar, just Barry Bonds and internal free agents until JungHo Kim…who most consider to be more of a complementary player and not a true star, either.

Correa was literally broken which is how they got him from the Mets. Healthy Correa was gone. 

Buxton they extended at a discount because he's made of glass. He was never a free agent.

Royse Lewis and Miguel Sano were never free agent signings by the Twins. Jaysus.

This is like me saying uhhh luis robert!! Yes, luis robert is one of the ten best players on the planet imo. No, the Sox will not retain him if he remains at this level through FA. And the Sox aren't one of the financially disadvantaged teams either, they're just disadvantaged because of bad ownership.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[The Grinder]

Meh.....Id rather have Chuckie Robinson.....

[poppysox]

58 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Dodgers have spent more money on four players (Freddie, Mookie, Ohtani and yamamoto) in the past two years than 19 teams have spent on their total payrolls since 2009.

Seem a bit unbalanced.  So much for parity.

[Bob Sacamano]

Maybe we'll hear about more interest for Cease from the Diamondbacks.

[poppysox]

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And yes, we can argue until we're blue in the face as to whether the Sox could. Of course they could but there's no league incentive for them to do so really (meaning our owner stinks, so tough us). They try to punish tanking in a league where tanking isn't even really valuable. One player isn't turning a roster around in baseball.

I'll add this too though, as always not my money so I'd be fine with Sox signing this but for me, this is a crazy contract imo but other pitchers probably happy to see it. 

It feels a bit like being a fan of the Washington Capitals playing the Globetrotters.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

I think the difference here is that Friedman has been planning for this offseason, letting All-Stars to superstars walk from their team — Machado, Seager, Turner, Scherzer, Darvish, Bellinger, Joc — while building a sustainable farm. They still somehow won 100 games in their down year. Obviously the big knock is that postseason pitching has bee

We mourn the infield that never was (in Chicago) of Tatis/Machado. If Friedman spent like Preller (with seemingly no foresight), he could have had Machado-Seager-Turner, but probably doesn't have the purse ready to go this offseason, when the Dodgers are still projected third in payroll and the Padres have to slash.

Great post. The Dodgers are able to do this because they’re the best development org in baseball. They draft, sign and develop talent consistently while picking in the back of the first round every year. They have lots of cheap players which allows them to flex their muscles. 

13 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Seem a bit unbalanced.  So much for parity.

Theres parity. It’s baseball. If I gave you the Dodgers or the field to win the 2024 title, who are you taking? 

[poppysox]

2 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Great post. The Dodgers are able to do this because they’re the best development org in baseball. They draft, sign and develop talent consistently while picking in the back of the first round every year. They have lots of cheap players which allows them to flex their muscles. 

Theres parity. It’s baseball. If I gave you the Dodgers or the field to win the 2024 title, who are you taking? 

Parity is the status of being equal.  In my mind 29 to 1 is not equal.  Before you say it...neither is 25 to 5.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Parity is the status of being equal.  In my mind 29 to 1 is not equal.  Before you say it...neither is 25 to 5.

It’s never going to happen in a sport without a salary cap where small market owners are content just making money 

[Balta1701]

19 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It’s never going to happen in a sport without a salary cap where small market owners are content just making money 

Please note that the 2nd statement has nothing to do with their being a salary cap, it has to do with there being a salary floor.

Negotiations might link that to a salary cap, but they are definitely separate issues, you could easily have a salary floor without a cap if that's what negotiations agreed to. Or a cap without a floor.

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Please note that the 2nd statement has nothing to do with their being a salary cap, it has to do with there being a salary floor.

Negotiations might link that to a salary cap, but they are definitely separate issues, you could easily have a salary floor without a cap if that's what negotiations agreed to. Or a cap without a floor.

While correct in theory, realistically neither side would agree to one without the other. Not that they can agree on either right now. 

The revenues are so disparate that they will need to do that or have a greater amount of revenue sharing if the league wants anything close to parity. 

But it's baseball and they've never really had it. 

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Dodgers have made the playoffs 11 years in a row and won the division 10 of 11 years. The year they finished second they won 106 games. 

They've gotten to the NLCS or later 6 of those years. 

Are people just blind to the reality?

It's like people arguing the Yankees couldn't buy titles. The Yankees have missed the playoffs 5 times since 1994. They havent had a LOSING season since 1992.

The Sox have made the playoffs 5 times since 94 lol.

The problem is the gap is getting worse too. People are too busy pointing out the rays as this reason you don't have to spend, yet the rays haven't won a world series ever.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'm hearing two different things.

You say the playoffs are a crapshoot, which I take to mean just get there and you have just as good a chance as anyone to win it all.

Then you point to the Rays lack of success because they haven't won a world series, even though they've made the crapshoot playoffs the past 5 seasons.

[TaylorStSox]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The sport is going to grow by 15% worldwide due to these two signings.

Whether a 50s/60s style Dodgers dynasty in the NL is a good thing for the sport is another question altogether.

Numerous non-baseball fans around the world are talking about the sport, partucularly the two contracts and these two talented players...

How could that be bad?  Most teams will set attendance records when the Dodgers are in town as well.

Baseball is at its lowest participation and popularity rate in history. It's not even arguable. A 10% bump in popularity in Japan isn't going to move the needle enough to change that. If the sport wants to regain some of that, they need to figure out a way to have more parity. The NFL and NBA haven't had a problem figuring that out.

[TaylorStSox]

52 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It’s never going to happen in a sport without a salary cap where small market owners are content just making money 

The small market owner argument doesn't hold much weight when we're talking about $1.5B tied up into 4 contracts. The vast majority of markets aren't going to compete with that - including the team with minority market share in Chicago. 

[Balta1701]

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

Baseball is at its lowest participation and popularity rate in history. It's not even arguable. A 10% bump in popularity in Japan isn't going to move the needle enough to change that. If the sport wants to regain some of that, they need to figure out a way to have more parity. The NFL and NBA haven't had a problem figuring that out.

I keep stressing this for a reason - convince me that baseball has a competition parity problem. They have a salary parity problem, a resource parity problem, but they seem pretty far from a competition parity problem. 

It has been almost 25 years since a team repeated as World Series champions. No team has more than 3 titles in the last 25 years. In the last 10 years the Royals have a title, the Astros have 2 titles after doing a complete rebuild, the Cubs have a title after doing a complete rebuild, the Nationals won a title and had to do a complete rebuild shortly afterwards. In the last 10 years, we have had the teams from Cleveland, Arizona, and Tampa Bay make the World Series as small market teams.

The Teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees may spend a ton of money, but it doesn't guarantee them titles, or even World Series appearances. Hell, the Mets and Yankees both missed the playoffs last year, despite all the money the Mets spent they had to sell off at the trade deadline. 

Baseball has some moribund franchises, but a lot of that is internal. The Pirates and As and a few others have decided that they prefer to rake in as much money as possible. There are clearly some issues with the regional sports networks this year that have to be ironed out. What the Dodgers did with Ohtani's deal may in the future appear to be a big problem that has to be dealt with. However, if your team wants to win and is smart about doing so, there is no reason why you can't have a run of several playoff appearances in a row with a legit chance at a title and probably a World Series appearance.

The teams that don't do this - the Rockies, the White Sox, etc., aren't uncompetitive because they're being outspent so badly they can't compete, they're uncompetitive because they're dumb. 

What the Dodgers did with Ohtani might change things and give them an extra advantage, but as of now I only see one cheat code to winning World Series titles in baseball, and it isn't money, it's Bruce Bochy.

[baseball_gal_aly]

7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/why-japanese-righthander-yoshinobu-yamamoto-is-coveted-by-mlb-teams/

 

Seems professional athletes always take a lot more abuse than singers comedians movie and tv stars, models, etc., on this issue of exorbitant or "unseemly high" salaries.

Because playing a game requires less practice or dedication? ... don't think so.

Blame the owners. 28 owners are ruining baseball. Cohen and the Dodgers group are the only ones doing it the right way. 

[TaylorStSox]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I keep stressing this for a reason - convince me that baseball has a competition parity problem. They have a salary parity problem, a resource parity problem, but they seem pretty far from a competition parity problem. 

It has been almost 25 years since a team repeated as World Series champions. No team has more than 3 titles in the last 25 years. In the last 10 years the Royals have a title, the Astros have 2 titles after doing a complete rebuild, the Cubs have a title after doing a complete rebuild, the Nationals won a title and had to do a complete rebuild shortly afterwards. In the last 10 years, we have had the teams from Cleveland, Arizona, and Tampa Bay make the World Series as small market teams.

The Teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees may spend a ton of money, but it doesn't guarantee them titles, or even World Series appearances. Hell, the Mets and Yankees both missed the playoffs last year, despite all the money the Mets spent they had to sell off at the trade deadline. 

Baseball has some moribund franchises, but a lot of that is internal. The Pirates and As and a few others have decided that they prefer to rake in as much money as possible. There are clearly some issues with the regional sports networks this year that have to be ironed out. What the Dodgers did with Ohtani's deal may in the future appear to be a big problem that has to be dealt with. However, if your team wants to win and is smart about doing so, there is no reason why you can't have a run of several playoff appearances in a row with a legit chance at a title and probably a World Series appearance.

The teams that don't do this - the Rockies, the White Sox, etc., aren't uncompetitive because they're being outspent so badly they can't compete, they're uncompetitive because they're dumb. 

What the Dodgers did with Ohtani might change things and give them an extra advantage, but as of now I only see one cheat code to winning World Series titles in baseball, and it isn't money, it's Bruce Bochy.

For fan interest and participation, consistently fielding competitive teams is more important than winning a world series. The majority of the league has to operate in small windows every 10 or 15 years, then fade away. There just isn't any incentive in following baseball if you grow up in Cleveland or Kansas City or Pittsburgh, and that's reflected in baseball's dwindling popularity. Baseball has a problem.

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Blame the owners. 28 owners are ruining baseball. Cohen and the Dodgers group are the only ones doing it the right way. 

Yup, blame the Brewers for not spending at the levels of the Dodgers when their regional TV deal is worth 10% of LA’s.

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

For fan interest and participation, consistently fielding competitive teams is more important than winning a world series. The majority of the league has to operate in small windows every 10 or 15 years, then fade away. There just isn't any incentive in following baseball if you grow up in Cleveland or Kansas City or Pittsburgh, and that's reflected in baseball's dwindling popularity. Baseball has a problem.

Operating in small windows is how things are supposed to go! You get a 3 to 4 year run where you make the playoffs several times, then your guys start getting expensive and leaving. That's how the NFL goes!

Take a look at the Buffalo Bills right now for a great example, they had a multi-year run, they were able to add a Von Miller to push everything in on 2022, and now they're struggling a bit because they can't keep all their defenders around and they don't have young guys to replace guys who are getting injured more (the Bears signed a LB from them last offseason).

Take a look at the LA Rams - they dumped everything they had on winning a title, took advantage of Kupp and Donald, won their title, and finished 5-12 last year because they hit the salary cap. The Eagles and the 49ers are in a peak right now, but the Eagles lost a LB to the Bears last year and right now they're struggling to stop the run the last 3 games because their LB corps is a bit weak. This is totally normal!!! You can look at basically every Super Bowl qualifying team other than 2 exceptions and you'll find the same pattern.

The only teams in the NFL that are exceptions to this are the ones that have the truly elite coach-QB combos (New England, KC). 

Pittsburgh is a totally different problem. Their ownership also flat out sucks. Even with that, they're able to make the playoffs occasionally, but they have been really bad at developing talent (Go check out Gerrit Cole's story here).

Kansas City had a strong multi-year run, made the World Series twice, then had to rebuild afterwards - and their problem has been that their rebuild has gone poorly. They've gone back to being dumb, possibly because their GM had other priorities than finding the best players once they won their title. 

Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs in years, but now they built up a load of talent and suddenly are looking at being a top team for the next however many years as long as they don't squander their young talent. They're in a division with the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays, and they led the AL in wins last year.

The Dodgers have spent a ton of money this offseason, they make the playoffs every year, but they're also on top because their organization is whip-smart. They are able to make trades for Trea Turner and Max Scherzer because in addition to spending money, they also develop talent like mad. They turned guys like Max Muncy, Justin Turner into studs when other teams gave up on them. They aren't getting high draft picks, but they are still churning out prospects that people want to trade for, because they're bloody well run and smart. They've short-circuited the normal cycle by being...really really smart.

[TaylorStSox]

KC has had 4 winning seasons over the last 35 and finished in the bottom half of attendance all but 2 of those years, despite winning a world series. I added them for a reason. The league is broken.

Edited December 22, 2023 by TaylorStSox

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Operating in small windows is how things are supposed to go! You get a 3 to 4 year run where you make the playoffs several times, then your guys start getting expensive and leaving. That's how the NFL goes!

Take a look at the Buffalo Bills right now for a great example, they had a multi-year run, they were able to add a Von Miller to push everything in on 2022, and now they're struggling a bit because they can't keep all their defenders around and they don't have young guys to replace guys who are getting injured more (the Bears signed a LB from them last offseason).

Take a look at the LA Rams - they dumped everything they had on winning a title, took advantage of Kupp and Donald, won their title, and finished 5-12 last year because they hit the salary cap. The Eagles and the 49ers are in a peak right now, but the Eagles lost a LB to the Bears last year and right now they're struggling to stop the run the last 3 games because their LB corps is a bit weak. This is totally normal!!! You can look at basically every Super Bowl qualifying team other than 2 exceptions and you'll find the same pattern.

The only teams in the NFL that are exceptions to this are the ones that have the truly elite coach-QB combos (New England, KC). 

Pittsburgh is a totally different problem. Their ownership also flat out sucks. Even with that, they're able to make the playoffs occasionally, but they have been really bad at developing talent (Go check out Gerrit Cole's story here).

Kansas City had a strong multi-year run, made the World Series twice, then had to rebuild afterwards - and their problem has been that their rebuild has gone poorly. They've gone back to being dumb, possibly because their GM had other priorities than finding the best players once they won their title. 

Baltimore hasn't made the playoffs in years, but now they built up a load of talent and suddenly are looking at being a top team for the next however many years as long as they don't squander their young talent. They're in a division with the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays, and they led the AL in wins last year.

The Dodgers have spent a ton of money this offseason, they make the playoffs every year, but they're also on top because their organization is whip-smart. They are able to make trades for Trea Turner and Max Scherzer because in addition to spending money, they also develop talent like mad. They turned guys like Max Muncy, Justin Turner into studs when other teams gave up on them. They aren't getting high draft picks, but they are still churning out prospects that people want to trade for, because they're bloody well run and smart. They've short-circuited the normal cycle by being...really really smart.

Comparing the NFL to the MLB from a parity standpoint is absolutely ridiculous.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Comparing the NFL to the MLB from a parity standpoint is absolutely ridiculous.

And yet, in MLB no team has more than 3 titles in the past 25 years. In the NFL, one team has 6. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'm hearing two different things.

You say the playoffs are a crapshoot, which I take to mean just get there and you have just as good a chance as anyone to win it all.

Then you point to the Rays lack of success because they haven't won a world series, even though they've made the crapshoot playoffs the past 5 seasons.

My point is most people try to point to the Dodgers and Yankees and say they don't win it all every year because money doesn't buy wins and you can win without spending, look at the rays. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Baltimore will be good for 3 years AT best and then return to bottom dwellers.