Yoshinobu Yamamoto got $325 million 12 years from Dodgers (+posting fee)

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I keep stressing this for a reason - convince me that baseball has a competition parity problem. They have a salary parity problem, a resource parity problem, but they seem pretty far from a competition parity problem. 

It has been almost 25 years since a team repeated as World Series champions. No team has more than 3 titles in the last 25 years. In the last 10 years the Royals have a title, the Astros have 2 titles after doing a complete rebuild, the Cubs have a title after doing a complete rebuild, the Nationals won a title and had to do a complete rebuild shortly afterwards. In the last 10 years, we have had the teams from Cleveland, Arizona, and Tampa Bay make the World Series as small market teams.

The Teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees may spend a ton of money, but it doesn't guarantee them titles, or even World Series appearances. Hell, the Mets and Yankees both missed the playoffs last year, despite all the money the Mets spent they had to sell off at the trade deadline. 

Baseball has some moribund franchises, but a lot of that is internal. The Pirates and As and a few others have decided that they prefer to rake in as much money as possible. There are clearly some issues with the regional sports networks this year that have to be ironed out. What the Dodgers did with Ohtani's deal may in the future appear to be a big problem that has to be dealt with. However, if your team wants to win and is smart about doing so, there is no reason why you can't have a run of several playoff appearances in a row with a legit chance at a title and probably a World Series appearance.

The teams that don't do this - the Rockies, the White Sox, etc., aren't uncompetitive because they're being outspent so badly they can't compete, they're uncompetitive because they're dumb. 

What the Dodgers did with Ohtani might change things and give them an extra advantage, but as of now I only see one cheat code to winning World Series titles in baseball, and it isn't money, it's Bruce Bochy.

There's a lot of truth in this bolded comment.

And I'm glad he didn't sign with the Yankees myself, I have no animosity towards the Dodgers because as you point out they are a complete, top-notch organization in all levels and facets. The antithesis of the White Sox in every aspect. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yup, blame the Brewers for not spending at the levels of the Dodgers when their regional TV deal is worth 10% of LA’s.

The Brewers owner can sell to someone who is willing to with a really nice ROI

 

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

The Brewers owner can sell to someone who is willing to with a really nice ROI

 

No one who buys the brewers is going to spend at the level of the dodgers. The team would be insolvent in a couple of years. 

The revenues are just too far apart. 

[Dick Allen]

He’s a little guy for a pitcher and throws a split. Will probably be really good maybe even great for a couple of years, but he is going under the knife before this contract ends.

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

And yet, in MLB no team has more than 3 titles in the past 25 years. In the NFL, one team has 6. 

I do think one distinct difference is - in NFL - you do see a lot more parity in teams, agnostic of market.  In NFL - Tom Brady is the outlier - but besides that - good franchises, regardless of market can succeed.  In baseball - it takes threading the needle because the competitive balance is totally different. 

NFL is clearly a more fair and levelized playing field in terms of the cap structure.  MLB is not.  No way around that.  Rays don't have the same opportunities the Yankees do...period.  In NFL - you really don't see that game. Cincy & Pittsburgh have same opportunities as say Giants/Jets.  I do recognize in football - owners who have more cash - may still have an advantage in sense that how you structure deals and bonuses can still drive a slight advantage, but it is nowhere the same as in the NFL.  

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I keep stressing this for a reason - convince me that baseball has a competition parity problem. They have a salary parity problem, a resource parity problem, but they seem pretty far from a competition parity problem. 

It has been almost 25 years since a team repeated as World Series champions. No team has more than 3 titles in the last 25 years. In the last 10 years the Royals have a title, the Astros have 2 titles after doing a complete rebuild, the Cubs have a title after doing a complete rebuild, the Nationals won a title and had to do a complete rebuild shortly afterwards. In the last 10 years, we have had the teams from Cleveland, Arizona, and Tampa Bay make the World Series as small market teams.

The Teams like the Dodgers, Mets, and Yankees may spend a ton of money, but it doesn't guarantee them titles, or even World Series appearances. Hell, the Mets and Yankees both missed the playoffs last year, despite all the money the Mets spent they had to sell off at the trade deadline. 

Baseball has some moribund franchises, but a lot of that is internal. The Pirates and As and a few others have decided that they prefer to rake in as much money as possible. There are clearly some issues with the regional sports networks this year that have to be ironed out. What the Dodgers did with Ohtani's deal may in the future appear to be a big problem that has to be dealt with. However, if your team wants to win and is smart about doing so, there is no reason why you can't have a run of several playoff appearances in a row with a legit chance at a title and probably a World Series appearance.

The teams that don't do this - the Rockies, the White Sox, etc., aren't uncompetitive because they're being outspent so badly they can't compete, they're uncompetitive because they're dumb. 

What the Dodgers did with Ohtani might change things and give them an extra advantage, but as of now I only see one cheat code to winning World Series titles in baseball, and it isn't money, it's Bruce Bochy.

I think the salary parity gets into sustainable winning organizations.  If you look at sustainable winning organizations - I presume you will see a common thread with few outliers.  The organizations who have had sustainable runs, have financial resources that the rest don't have. So yeah - you will have a Royals team pop up because they were so bad for so long, that they get lucky and put together a run - but that team will also quickly crash back to normal and go back to a decade long run of mediocrity.  

I will caveat - there are exceptions to this - as Guardians, Rays, Twins, Brewers have largely been competitive with more middling payrolls.  Rays payroll not even middling, dirt cheap and they have recognized it and basically operate in that lens constantly churning players before they get paid to keep their roster clean (a well executed strategy with really good scouting and development that pairs the strategy up with reality).  

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I think the salary parity gets into sustainable winning organizations.  If you look at sustainable winning organizations - I presume you will see a common thread with few outliers.  The organizations who have had sustainable runs, have financial resources that the rest don't have. So yeah - you will have a Royals team pop up because they were so bad for so long, that they get lucky and put together a run - but that team will also quickly crash back to normal and go back to a decade long run of mediocrity.  

I will caveat - there are exceptions to this - as Guardians, Rays, Twins, Brewers have largely been competitive with more middling payrolls.  Rays payroll not even middling, dirt cheap and they have recognized it and basically operate in that lens constantly churning players before they get paid to keep their roster clean (a well executed strategy with really good scouting and development that pairs the strategy up with reality).  

Houston, for example, yes has more resources than some of the noncompetitive teams, and that has helped them, but at the same time look what happened to Houston this year. They signed several bad contracts including Abreu and Montero, and now they're on the verge of having Bregman, Altuve, and potentially Verlander leaving after this year. If they had a smaller market, it's possible they could have more aggressively moved a piece like Bregman or Valdez after their 2022 title to keep their salary more under control. So, either way - they had a hell of a run, but somewhere in there they're going to need to retool.

When we talk about sustainable winning organizations, I see no team that does so without strong development. The Braves, the Dodgers, the Rays - they are at the top because they pulled a ton from their minor leagues. The Yankees missed the playoffs in 2016, did a quick rebuilding, and got back to the playoffs based on finding a guy like Judge. When the Yankees, the Mets have tried to short circuit this setup, they wind up missing the playoffs and spending $250 million.

The organizations that have sustainable runs continue developing talent and using it in interesting, aggressive ways. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

43 minutes ago, ptatc said:

No one who buys the brewers is going to spend at the level of the dodgers. The team would be insolvent in a couple of years. 

The revenues are just too far apart. 

Ok,  they should open the books to the players and prove it then.

 

BTW, I'm not expecting the smaller market teams to spend like the Dodgers on a regular basis, but rather be willing to exceed the luxury tax during a competitive window 

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

There's a lot of truth in this bolded comment.

And I'm glad he didn't sign with the Yankees myself, I have no animosity towards the Dodgers because as you point out they are a complete, top-notch organization in all levels and facets. The antithesis of the White Sox in every aspect. 

No team, including the Mets and Dodgers who haven’t won a real season championship since 1980s, can win multiple championships without building a solid core group of players. The Yankees’ one recent stretch was in the 1990s when the core of their roster was homegrown players.

Himes was the only GM hired by Jerry to build a successful core. Not sure Getz has it in him, but even a slim chance is better than the zero percent chance all of Jerry’s other GM hires provided.

I will acknowledge Jerry’s ignorant meddling and other levels of douchebaggery (1994, 2020 lockout, TLR, etc) have hamstrung all of his FOs, including the current one. That said, this is the first time I recall them bringing in at least credible outside people instead of the typical cast of cronies we’ve experienced over the decades (TLR of course the exception). Gives me a sliver of hope there might be winning White Sox baseball this decade, even if Jerry is still breathing.

[Lip Man 1]

56 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He’s a little guy for a pitcher and throws a split. Will probably be really good maybe even great for a couple of years, but he is going under the knife before this contract ends.

And if the Dodgers keeping making the playoffs in the short term, maybe win another World Series or two, they won't care in the least if he blows out his arm in five years.

To make money you have to spend it and spent it smartly which is something the Dodgers do well and the White Sox don't.

JR very rarely is willing to gamble or step out of his comfort zone which is one of the many reasons this franchise is in the state that it is in. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

The Brewers owner can sell to someone who is willing to with a really nice ROI

 

What?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

And yes, we can argue until we're blue in the face as to whether the Sox could. Of course they could but there's no league incentive for them to do so really (meaning our owner stinks, so tough us). They try to punish tanking in a league where tanking isn't even really valuable. One player isn't turning a roster around in baseball.

I'll add this too though, as always not my money so I'd be fine with Sox signing this but for me, this is a crazy contract imo but other pitchers probably happy to see it. 

Oh I do like what you said about tanking. But I'm not sure it's all about one player or even top picks that you get every round of the draft.

It's more about trying to artificially create a spending floor among the dreg teams of baseball. It's like a floor CBT when it's not really needed. Those cities already suck at baseball for good reasons. Taking hope away from fans that tanking might provide a superstar to build around is unnecessary.

It's like all the Sox fans have is Robert and why no one wants him traded now.

f*** it trade him and Cease and get as much as you can right now. Being the best farm in baseball would provide more hope than we're getting now. We'd field a competitive team sooner and still have a decent amount of prospect capital.

[caulfield12]

Corbin Burnes seems to be the key now...he's the most comparable piece to Dylan Cease out there now, not Bieber.

More expensive than Glasnow but certainly less than Cease.  Also the big projected salary differentials to consider between the two.

Edited December 22, 2023 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

53 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

And if the Dodgers keeping making the playoffs in the short term, maybe win another World Series or two, they won't care in the least if he blows out his arm in five years.

To make money you have to spend it and spent it smartly which is something the Dodgers do well and the White Sox don't.

JR very rarely is willing to gamble or step out of his comfort zone which is one of the many reasons this franchise is in the state that it is in. 

I see the excess pay more as a marketing angle for Japan dollars than competitive outlays. See Ohtani pitching likely pitching between 400-600 innings tops under this deal, and expect serious hitting regression during the final portion of the deal. Yamamoto should be exciting for a few years. but again this is a large an overpay if strictly evaluating for competitive purposes. The Dodgers are going to sell a lot of s%*# in Japan and subsequently raise the value of the club. That's the primary focus of these two deals.

If these guys were Chuck Cornshucker from Nebraska and Jesus Isreal from the Dominican Republic with the same baseball pedigree, these deals would be for a fraction of what the Dodgers paid.

JR lucked into the Hip Hop and Gang purchases of his merchandise in the 1990s and beyond without spending a nickel in marketing. He doesn't see the need for paying players to promote his merchandise, same as his view on fielding competitive teams and building a competitive front office. He'd prefer sacrificing additional revenue if the players were entitled to a portion.

[TaylorStSox]

9 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I see the excess pay more as a marketing angle for Japan dollars than competitive outlays. See Ohtani pitching likely pitching between 400-600 innings tops under this deal, and expect serious hitting regression during the final portion of the deal. Yamamoto should be exciting for a few years. but again this is a large an overpay if strictly evaluating for competitive purposes. The Dodgers are going to sell a lot of s%*# in Japan and subsequently raise the value of the club. That's the primary focus of these two deals.

If these guys were Chuck Cornshucker from Nebraska and Jesus Isreal from the Dominican Republic with the same baseball pedigree, these deals would be for a fraction of what the Dodgers paid.

JR lucked into the Hip Hop and Gang purchases of his merchandise in the 1990s and beyond without spending a nickel in marketing. He doesn't see the need for paying players to promote his merchandise, same as his view on fielding competitive teams and building a competitive front office. He'd prefer sacrificing additional revenue if the players were entitled to a portion.

Hip Hop and gang purchases? Man, that's racist. For the record, no gangs are associated with White Sox apparel. In fact, the appeal of Sox gear throughout the years is that it's been considered neutral in relation to gangs. 

 

Anyway, the Dodgers can afford to take these risks because they're owned by a multi billion dollar investment firm. Jerry and the Sox brass ain't that. 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by TaylorStSox

[ptatc]

15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Hip Hop and gang purchases? Man, that's racist. For the record, no gangs are associated with White Sox apparel. In fact, the appeal of Sox gear throughout the years is that it's been considered neutral in relation to gangs. 

 

Anyway, the Dodgers can afford to take these risks because they're owned by a multi billion dollar investment firm. Jerry and the Sox brass ain't that. 

 

 

It's not just the wealth of the ownership, it's the revenues that are generated being drastically different as well. 

[Soxfest]

Must be nice to have a owner actually go for it in a major market instead of dumpster diving and acting like it’s 1984 still.

[caulfield12]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39170048/steve-cohen-life-goes-mets-missing-yamamoto

The get-togethers helped Yamamoto crystallize his priorities before the teams started talking terms of the deal with Yamamoto and his agent, Joel Wolfe, on Monday. Cohen ultimately made a similar contract offer to Yamamoto -- 12 years and $325 million plus opt-outs -- but couldn't overcome the Dodgers, who have now accounted for more than half the spending across MLB in free agency this winter, following the 10-year, $700 million contract they gave to Shohei Ohtani, Yamamoto's countryman.

.....

"Last I looked, there's never one player that is going to make or break your team," Cohen said of Yamamoto, who has dominated Nippon Professional Baseball like nobody else in the league's 74-year history since transitioning from bullpen to the Orix Buffaloes' rotation in 2019."

Edited December 23, 2023 by caulfield12

[SoxAce]

https://www.instagram.com/js9innings/p/C1KhQlsxJWs/

 

Facts.

[baseball_gal_aly]

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

 

Why do I care what Kate Feldman has to say?

[baseball_gal_aly]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why do I care what Kate Feldman has to say?

It's just something I agree with. 

You have prominent baseball writers telling you that it's just owners being cheap. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

It's just something I agree with. 

You have prominent baseball writers telling you that it's just owners being cheap. 

Why would baseball writers who are spoon fed “leaks” from agents s%*# on crazy spending which benefits said agents?

And this Kate’s arguments are plain dumb.  Allowing the Dodgers to go hog wild in free agency because of their regional TV deal is not mutually exclusive with wanting the worst MLB owners to spend more.

[baseball_gal_aly]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Why would baseball writers who are spoon fed “leaks” from agents s%*# on crazy spending which benefits said agents?

And this Kate’s arguments are plain dumb.  Allowing the Dodgers to go hog wild in free agency because of their regional TV deal is not mutually exclusive with wanting the worst MLB owners to spend more.

 

This gal knows her s%*#. 

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

It's just something I agree with. 

You have prominent baseball writers telling you that it's just owners being cheap. 

What incentive does an owner have to spend 250 million on a payroll, pay luxury taxes, maybe lose draft picks and still not stillnot be able to compete with the top 2-3 revenue teams?