A Tale of Two Cities . . . MLB Expansion.

[Texsox]

Nashville seems to be the front runner for a spot but there will be two. Charlotte? Oakland? San Antonio? Schaumburg? Montreal? Mexico City? Salt Lake City? Portland? 

Obviously I would love to see a third Texas team but that seems unlikely. A return to Montreal or Oakland seems unlikely since franchises failed there already. But one was decades ago.

Charlotte seems like a solid choice of they find a suitable investment group. 

 

[MiddleCoastBias]

Seems like Nashville and Oakland are the favorites. While Charlotte would be cool, it seems MLB wants to balance things out west more. 

I believe Oakland negotiated that they get the right to an expansion team if the Athletics do move to Vegas, and I think they're requesting to retain the Athletics name and colors as well. I don't think that proposal has been accepted yet but last I read is that Oakland was insisting on that in negotiations.

Also feels like Nashville is a foregone conclusion at this point, what with their grassroots effort to set that foundation in advance of any expansion talks.

[Snowy Demon]

27 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Nashville seems to be the front runner for a spot but there will be two. Charlotte? Oakland? San Antonio? Schaumburg? Montreal? Mexico City? Salt Lake City? Portland? 

Obviously I would love to see a third Texas team but that seems unlikely. A return to Montreal or Oakland seems unlikely since franchises failed there already. But one was decades ago.

Charlotte seems like a solid choice of they find a suitable investment group. 

 

I really do not hear too much about MLB in Charlotte area.  I live near Charlotte, too.  Even here, more people talk about Nashville expansion.  Rather odd. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

I don't think Oakland stands a chance at seeing another team any time soon, if ever. Why would MLB put another franchise after a decades long battle to move the A's to Vegas? There's plenty of new markets they would rather expand too.

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

I really do not hear too much about MLB in Charlotte area.  I live near Charlotte, too.  Even here, more people talk about Nashville expansion.  Rather odd. 

Between the Orioles/Nationals to the north and then the huge swath of Braves' Nation in the Southeast...it just seems impossible that they would go with Nashville AND Charlotte unless they were losing one of the Florida teams.

[dohnut]

Yep, I think Nashville is a foregone conclusion at this point.

For nostalgia's sake, I'd like to see Montreal get their Expos back.
For my own selfish reasons, I'd like to have the "Austin Texans".

In the end, I think it probably goes to Salt Lake City.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, dohnut said:

Yep, I think Nashville is a foregone conclusion at this point.

For nostalgia's sake, I'd like to see Montreal get their Expos back.
For my own selfish reasons, I'd like to have the "Austin Texans".

In the end, I think it probably goes to Salt Lake City.

Salt Lake had a long AAA tradition...then changed to A ball.

 

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

I don't think Oakland stands a chance at seeing another team any time soon, if ever. Why would MLB put another franchise after a decades long battle to move the A's to Vegas? There's plenty of new markets they would rather expand too.

How serious was the ballpark agreement they had with the city? The city seemed pretty pissed that what they were offering was turned down at the end.

[pcq]

3 hours ago, Snowy Demon said:

I really do not hear too much about MLB in Charlotte area.  I live near Charlotte, too.  Even here, more people talk about Nashville expansion.  Rather odd. 

Nashville has a PR machine and staff of MLB people promoting them for the past five years. Lots of hot air. Charlotte is bigger and their park is expandable. 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

How serious was the ballpark agreement they had with the city? The city seemed pretty pissed that what they were offering was turned down at the end.

No clue. It certainly seemed like Manfred did everything in his power to not help them out though.

[reiks12]

I don't understand why expansion is even a thing considering half the teams in the league arent even trying to compete. Yeah $$$ talks, but its still silly.

[Tnetennba]

Montreal and Oakland have both shown they can support a team in the past, and both are most deserving IMO. Nashville does seem like a foregone conclusion though. 

[hi8is]

I wish Portland would get a team but that’s likely just because I lived there before… visited when they had a minor league team and even that was a huge draw to move there for me.

Once I did, the team had moved. ?

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I wish Portland would get a team but that’s likely just because I lived there before… visited when they had a minor league team and even that was a huge draw to move there for me.

Once I did, the team had moved. ?

AAA as well....so I guess that leave mostly Mariners fans there, or Tacoma?   The Everett Aqua Sox used to be popular.

I remember there was a team in Bend, maybe it was Short Season?

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

A return to Montreal or Oakland seems unlikely since franchises failed there already.

This statement is ludicrous. Jerry Reinsdorf and Bud Selig killed the Expos in 1994 and Jeff Loria defiled the corpse a few years later. John Fisher inherited the Gap from his mommy and daddy, demanded a new taxpayer funded real estate empire because entitlement / privilege. He overplayed his hand and will end up making far less than he would have staying in the Bay Area, as he gets zero real estate at the Tropicana site vs. the Wild Wild West site blocked by Nevada Unions.

What Should Have Happened:

• The Rays build a stadium in Tampa or Montreal, not a second one in Saint Petersburg.
• The A's build a stadium at the Howard Terminal or Oakland.
• Expansion to Nashville and Montreal

Restore League and Playoff Integrity: 

Interleague Eliminated, All Playoffs Best of Seven, Four Division Winners in the ALDS.

1. Realigns divisions in a better geographical and time zone alignment.
2. Minimizes historical rivalries / league alignment by limiting shifting teams to recent expansion clubs (Colorado, Miami), with Kansas City ownership and fans likely supporting the switch (and they have been American League since 1955. Milwaukee in the AL North and Minnesota in the NL North probably makes more sense, but Milwaukee will squeal like a pig losing Cubbie fan tickets revenue.

American League 

• East: 3 Baltimore, 5 Boston, 10 New York, 6 Toronto
• North: 5 Chicago, 2 Cleveland, 4 Detroit, 4 Minnesota
• South: 7 Houston, 6 Miami, 3 Tampa Bay, 8 Texas
• West: 3 Colorado, 2 Las Vegas, 6 Los Angeles, 4 Seattle

National League

• East: 4 Montreal, 10 New York, 6 Philadelphia, 6 Washington
• North: 5 Chicago, 2 Kansas City, 2 Milwaukee, 3 Saint Louis
• South: 6 Atlanta, 2 Cincinnati, 2 Nashville, 2 Pittsburgh
• West: 5 Arizona, 6 Los Angeles, 3 San Diego, 5 San Francisco

# = MSA Population in Millions (Split Markets are divided by two for this exercise)

 

What will likely happen:

• NBA Style East / West Conferences - Obliterate Historical 125 - 150 year League Alignments
• 16-24 Playoff Teams Including Play In Games
• Make Games Seven Innings & Replace Extra Innings With Home Run Derby - Limited to Regular Season at First, Followed by Playoff Expansion.

[South Side Hit Men]

56 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I don't understand why expansion is even a thing considering half the teams in the league arent even trying to compete. Yeah $$$ talks, but its still silly.

This.

What would make most sense to accommodate greed, but will still never happen, is have Major League Baseball (16 team league) and Kiddie Table League Baseball (16 team league). Or they can whore themselves out further with league sponsors (Bud Light & WalMart for the Kiddie Leagues).

Promote the two best Little League Teams and demote the bottom two MLB teams in each of the two leagues (4 teams change each season). Would make September games meaningful throughout the league, win and stay in, lose get demoted.

The initial alignment would be based on the previous year standings, with Expansion Teams starting in the Little Leagues. MLB will have a World Series, Little League Baseball will have one as well. Using 2024 as the initial year, this would be the breakout:

MLB American League: Baltimore (101); Houston (90); Minnesota (87); New York (82); Seattle (88); Tampa Bay (99); Texas (90); Toronto (89)

MLB National League: Arizona (84); Atlanta (104); Chicago (83); Los Angeles (100); Miami (84); Milwaukee (92); Philadelphia (90) + Winner (Cincinnati vs. San Diego Tie Breaker Series).

American Kiddie Table League: Boston (78); Chicago (61); Cleveland (76); Detroit (78); Kansas City (56); Los Angeles (73); Nashville (Expansion); Oakland (50)

National Kiddie Table League: Colorado; (59) New York (75), Montreal (Expansion); Pittsburgh (76); Saint Louis (71); San Francisco (79); Washington (71) + Loser (Cincinnati vs. San Diego Tie Breaker Series)

[hi8is]

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What will likely happen:

• NBA Style East / West Conferences - Obliterate Historical 125 - 150 year League Alignments
• 16-24 Playoff Teams Including Play In Games
• Make Games Seven Innings & Replace Extra Innings With Home Run Derby - Limited to Regular Season at First, Followed by Playoff Expansion.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Chicago White Sox]

46 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Are you fucking kidding me?

Yeah, obviously none of those will actually happen

[RibbieRubarb]

13 hours ago, Texsox said:

Nashville seems to be the front runner for a spot but there will be two. Charlotte? Oakland? San Antonio? Schaumburg? Montreal? Mexico City? Salt Lake City? Portland? 

Obviously I would love to see a third Texas team but that seems unlikely. A return to Montreal or Oakland seems unlikely since franchises failed there already. But one was decades ago.

Charlotte seems like a solid choice of they find a suitable investment group. 

 

Between Austin and San Antonio? Perfect. The Hill Country Hitters! Bring it.

[RibbieRubarb]

7 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This statement is ludicrous. Jerry Reinsdorf and Bud Selig killed the Expos in 1994 and Jeff Loria defiled the corpse a few years later. John Fisher inherited the Gap from his mommy and daddy, demanded a new taxpayer funded real estate empire because entitlement / privilege. He overplayed his hand and will end up making far less than he would have staying in the Bay Area, as he gets zero real estate at the Tropicana site vs. the Wild Wild West site blocked by Nevada Unions.

What Should Have Happened:

• The Rays build a stadium in Tampa or Montreal, not a second one in Saint Petersburg.
• The A's build a stadium at the Howard Terminal or Oakland.
• Expansion to Nashville and Montreal

Restore League and Playoff Integrity: 

Interleague Eliminated, All Playoffs Best of Seven, Four Division Winners in the ALDS.

1. Realigns divisions in a better geographical and time zone alignment.
2. Minimizes historical rivalries / league alignment by limiting shifting teams to recent expansion clubs (Colorado, Miami), with Kansas City ownership and fans likely supporting the switch (and they have been American League since 1955. Milwaukee in the AL North and Minnesota in the NL North probably makes more sense, but Milwaukee will squeal like a pig losing Cubbie fan tickets revenue.

American League 

• East: 3 Baltimore, 5 Boston, 10 New York, 6 Toronto
• North: 5 Chicago, 2 Cleveland, 4 Detroit, 4 Minnesota
• South: 7 Houston, 6 Miami, 3 Tampa Bay, 8 Texas
• West: 3 Colorado, 2 Las Vegas, 6 Los Angeles, 4 Seattle

National League

• East: 4 Montreal, 10 New York, 6 Philadelphia, 6 Washington
• North: 5 Chicago, 2 Kansas City, 2 Milwaukee, 3 Saint Louis
• South: 6 Atlanta, 2 Cincinnati, 2 Nashville, 2 Pittsburgh
• West: 5 Arizona, 6 Los Angeles, 3 San Diego, 5 San Francisco

# = MSA Population in Millions (Split Markets are divided by two for this exercise)

 

What will likely happen:

• NBA Style East / West Conferences - Obliterate Historical 125 - 150 year League Alignments
• 16-24 Playoff Teams Including Play In Games
• Make Games Seven Innings & Replace Extra Innings With Home Run Derby - Limited to Regular Season at First, Followed by Playoff Expansion.

I would put Houston back to the NL South and Nashville into the AL South.

Keep Texas Separate...?

[hi8is]

33 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yeah, obviously none of those will actually happen

I don’t know, can’t put anything beyond Manspread.

[SCCWS]

9 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Montreal and Oakland have both shown they can support a team in the past, and both are most deserving IMO. Nashville does seem like a foregone conclusion though. 

Now a days Toronto is the " sports city" in Canada, not Montreal. Last year there was a push to split games with Tampa and Montreal because of weather.  Tampa, new stadium or not, will draw for a few years and then it will be right back to 15,000 or less. Imagine attendance if the Rays ever have a lousy team? 

[ptatc]

8 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

This statement is ludicrous. Jerry Reinsdorf and Bud Selig killed the Expos in 1994 and Jeff Loria defiled the corpse a few years later. John Fisher inherited the Gap from his mommy and daddy, demanded a new taxpayer funded real estate empire because entitlement / privilege. He overplayed his hand and will end up making far less than he would have staying in the Bay Area, as he gets zero real estate at the Tropicana site vs. the Wild Wild West site blocked by Nevada Unions.

What Should Have Happened:

• The Rays build a stadium in Tampa or Montreal, not a second one in Saint Petersburg.
• The A's build a stadium at the Howard Terminal or Oakland.
• Expansion to Nashville and Montreal

Restore League and Playoff Integrity: 

Interleague Eliminated, All Playoffs Best of Seven, Four Division Winners in the ALDS.

1. Realigns divisions in a better geographical and time zone alignment.
2. Minimizes historical rivalries / league alignment by limiting shifting teams to recent expansion clubs (Colorado, Miami), with Kansas City ownership and fans likely supporting the switch (and they have been American League since 1955. Milwaukee in the AL North and Minnesota in the NL North probably makes more sense, but Milwaukee will squeal like a pig losing Cubbie fan tickets revenue.

American League 

• East: 3 Baltimore, 5 Boston, 10 New York, 6 Toronto
• North: 5 Chicago, 2 Cleveland, 4 Detroit, 4 Minnesota
• South: 7 Houston, 6 Miami, 3 Tampa Bay, 8 Texas
• West: 3 Colorado, 2 Las Vegas, 6 Los Angeles, 4 Seattle

National League

• East: 4 Montreal, 10 New York, 6 Philadelphia, 6 Washington
• North: 5 Chicago, 2 Kansas City, 2 Milwaukee, 3 Saint Louis
• South: 6 Atlanta, 2 Cincinnati, 2 Nashville, 2 Pittsburgh
• West: 5 Arizona, 6 Los Angeles, 3 San Diego, 5 San Francisco

# = MSA Population in Millions (Split Markets are divided by two for this exercise)

 

What will likely happen:

• NBA Style East / West Conferences - Obliterate Historical 125 - 150 year League Alignments
• 16-24 Playoff Teams Including Play In Games
• Make Games Seven Innings & Replace Extra Innings With Home Run Derby - Limited to Regular Season at First, Followed by Playoff Expansion.

I don't understand why people continually berate owners for asking to have cities/states to build stadia. 

It good business if you an get someone else to pay for it. 

Blame the politicians who approve it. They are the one who shouldn't do it. It's an awful thing and they continue to approve them. 

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't understand why people continually berate owners for asking to have cities/states to build stadia. 

It good business if you an get someone else to pay for it. 

Blame the politicians who approve it. They are the one who shouldn't do it. It's an awful thing and they continue to approve them. 

I have no problem when people complain about an owner who has received a ton of funds from a city/state historically who then threatens to move (which would mean all the money put in previously was a waste) if he doesn't get still more money and yet another new stadium. 

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I have no problem when people complain about an owner who has received a ton of funds from a city/state historically who then threatens to move (which would mean all the money put in previously was a waste) if he doesn't get still more money and yet another new stadium. 

I do. It would be negligent if the owner didn't do everything possible to help the franchise. The more debt they run the less they can put towards the franchise.