White Sox, Getz have more work to do before spring training opens

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

A minor league deal with the Braves?  Leury went an entire season without being signed by a team last year after clearing waivers in Spring Training when the Sox cut him and had to pay out his entire awful contract gifted to him by Rick Hahn.

I pin the Adam Eaton, Jake Lamb, Joe Kelly acquisitions on Tony La Russa, plus the Lance Lynn and Leury extensions.

I give Tony credit for bringing in Liam Hendricks.

Hahn didn’t have much say after TLR was hired, but proved demonstrably he could perform no aspect of his job well before 2020. I can’t blame Jerry for moving on, but do blame him for not handing the keys to someone living in the 21st century.

[Dick Allen]

21 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I keep wondering how all y'all keep forgetting to post this list of amazing prospect talent the White Sox had, and Chris Getz taught them all how to suck. There are a lot of MLB front office personnel who are with the only organization who would offer them that position. Tell me, when you look for a job, and you're offered a job, do you hold off on accepting that job until you get multiple offers, just to prove that you're a great job prospect? 

Where do all these insane rules come from? The guy was an Asst GM, then was promoted to GM. I've said this many times in these strings, but I get that y'all are unhappy that Reinsdorf said some BS, then just promoted somebody. Everybody is bending themselves into pretzel shapes to try to portray Chris Getz as the architect of 15+ years of sucking. 

The actual feathers in Getz's cap I listed (Eloy, Yoan, Gio, Cease, Robert), everybody says don't count because everything good about them happened outside of our organization, and everything bad happened because Chris Getz made them cry, or something.

He was the director of player development, assistant GM  farm director. He was somewhat responsible for putting people in place to develop players. They have done a poor job, hence 101 losses.

Sox can’t develop hitters, no patience, and there was an Athletic article a couple of years go. Guess which organization ranked last for developing fastball velocity?  Hint, your guy was in charge.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Dick Allen

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He was the director of player development, assistant GM  farm director. He was somewhat responsible for putting people in place to develop players. They have done a poor job, hence 101 losses.

Exactly.  Getz is a part of the overall Sox suckage that has occurred over the last few years, just as Kenny and Hahn were.  “Developing” some AAAA players doesn’t give him any bonus points.  And yes, many Sox fans think it was ridiculous how Reinsdorf gifted him a huge promotion without a legitimate GM search with interviews.

Edited December 27, 2023 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Eloy is not a feather in anyone’s cap, he’s a major disappointment. Yoan is a major disappointment. Pretty much all of them have been at best inconsistent so far, maybe save Robert.

Yoan Moncada has had 4 and 5 WAR seasons in the bigs. Eloy can't stay healthy. Player development did their job, and delivered them to the bigs where they displayed some of the immense prospect. The pro coaching and training staffs then proceeded to drop the ball. Y'all are just being argumentative at this point. I could say that the sun rises in the East, and all of your heads would explode, because dude who won't laugh at our Chris Getz put-downs can't possibly be right about a single point. 

I'm not sure what's so hard to admit about: "Chris Getz graduated the good talent he was given to work with". Everybody has to throw in these meaningless caveats that don't even apply. Beyond that, he was given dudes who were only available because of bad attitudes, or track records, and were turned into replacement players who could sub in for 2 months and hold their own. Were they sure-fire Hall-of-Famers that Getz stuck with a syringe of "suck-at-baseball" juice on the sly? If you really believe that Nicky Delmonico was going to be a 40 HR a year guy, prove it. 

First rounders being rushed to the bigs, or guys who just can't take 3 steps without pulling every muscle on their skeleton aren't on the Director of Player Development. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yoan Moncada has had 4 and 5 WAR seasons in the bigs. Eloy can't stay healthy. Player development did their job, and delivered them to the bigs where they displayed some of the immense prospect. The pro coaching and training staffs then proceeded to drop the ball. Y'all are just being argumentative at this point. I could say that the sun rises in the East, and all of your heads would explode, because dude who won't laugh at our Chris Getz put-downs can't possibly be right about a single point. 

I'm not sure what's so hard to admit about: "Chris Getz graduated the good talent he was given to work with". Everybody has to throw in these meaningless caveats that don't even apply. Beyond that, he was given dudes who were only available because of bad attitudes, or track records, and were turned into replacement players who could sub in for 2 months and hold their own. Were they sure-fire Hall-of-Famers that Getz stuck with a syringe of "suck-at-baseball" juice on the sly? If you really believe that Nicky Delmonico was going to be a 40 HR a year guy, prove it. 

First rounders being rushed to the bigs, or guys who just can't take 3 steps without pulling every muscle on their skeleton aren't on the Director of Player Development. 

Yoan Moncada was a disaster when he was called up. Completely terrible approach at the plate, took several years to have a decent year and a totally revamped approach at the plate because his was so bad. Then fell apart again.

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They have done a poor job, hence 101 losses.

Oh, so then, he gets to claim Colson Montgomery (who was seen as a reach when drafted), Noah Shultz (who the jury was still out on)? Then Chris Getz looks like a pretty damn good Director of Player Development to me. These Brian Ramos and Wilfred Veras guys? 2 more feathers. Terrell Tatum, Tim Elko, Jacob Burke, Michael Camilletti, Brooks Baldwin and Michael Turner all took big leaps forward this season. All were mid-late round picks. You're starting to convince me that Chris Getz is the greatest Minor League development guy in baseball. I'm even more psyched, now. 

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  Getz is a part of the overall Sox suckage that has occurred over the last few years, just as Kenny and Hahn were.

Great. Hey, can you point out a Minor League Development guy who walked into an organization, flipped a switch and started spitting out All-Stars? Or is it a multi-year process of changing processes, one by one, swapping out vendors, instilling new programs, getting buy-in, and working to get problem dudes moved out?

Y'all keep pointing to a 101 loss season, and argue that means every single person in the organization had taken an oath to make everything suck. I'm at least offering arguments. 

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Great. Hey, can you point out a Minor League Development guy who walked into an organization, flipped a switch and started spitting out All-Stars? Or is it a multi-year process of changing processes, one by one, swapping out vendors, instilling new programs, getting buy-in, and working to get problem dudes moved out?

Y'all keep pointing to a 101 loss season, and argue that means every single person in the organization had taken an oath to make everything suck. I'm at least offering arguments. 

Your saying Chris Getz should be commended for Rwmillard, and Leury, and even Nicky Delmonico, but should get no blame for anything that went wrong, as he clearly earned his promotion. I disagree. He’s the wrong guy. He was brought in because the owner was too egotistical and lazy to conduct a real search. 

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yoan Moncada was a disaster when he was called up. Completely terrible approach at the plate, took several years to have a decent year and a totally revamped approach at the plate because his was so bad. Then fell apart again.

Disaster? Moncada clocked in right under an average major leaguer in WAR. So he came out of the minors, and he stepped into a major league roll, and almost performed like an average major leaguer. You are right. That is a total failure on the part of minor league development. He should have hit the league, put up 6 WAR, and only got better from there. 

Dude got COVID, then had lingering bad back injuries. After the TDL this last season, Moncada OPSed .825 from 8/1 on. Sounds like Chris Getz sat him down on 7/31, and explained how to be the great player that he forgot to be since he left Getz's tutelage. 

You guys are beginning to convince me that Chris Getz was the greatest GM hire in the history of the game. Many will lose their jobs for not grabbing him up sooner. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

You guys are beginning to convince me that Chris Getz was the greatest GM hire in the history of the game. Many will lose their jobs for not grabbing him up sooner. 

I like the cut of your jib.  

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Disaster? Moncada clocked in right under an average major leaguer in WAR. So he came out of the minors, and he stepped into a major league roll, and almost performed like an average major leaguer. You are right. That is a total failure on the part of minor league development. He should have hit the league, put up 6 WAR, and only got better from there. 

Dude got COVID, then had lingering bad back injuries. After the TDL this last season, Moncada OPSed .825 from 8/1 on. Sounds like Chris Getz sat him down on 7/31, and explained how to be the great player that he forgot to be since he left Getz's tutelage. 

You guys are beginning to convince me that Chris Getz was the greatest GM hire in the history of the game. Many will lose their jobs for not grabbing him up sooner. 

He came up and immediately led the league in strikeouts while being a below average defender. For a supposed number 1 prospect in baseball, yuck. Adley Rutschman in 2 seasons has put up 10 WAR, Moncada put up 2. 

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Your saying Chris Getz should be commended for Rwmillard, and Leury, and even Nicky Delmonico, but should get no blame for anything that went wrong, as he clearly earned his promotion.

What went wrong? Bumping Vaughn and Madrigal too quick? Moving first-basemen to the OF? Training and conditioning sh*tting the bed on multiple players? Sounds like the Director of Player Development is the most important job in the organization, if that's all his responsibility. He was probably "demoted" to GM.

I'm not sure what you think the Player Development guy's job is. He doesn't run the entire organization. Everybody is saying he did a poor job, then they start naming things he had little to nothing to do with as evidence. When I point out actual players who graduated to the bigs, they were either too good, or too bad to count. I'm sure if I made an argument about Luis Robert, in about 6 posts, everyone would be screaming that Robert is a huge disappointment and shouldn't even be considered a "good" player. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

What went wrong? Bumping Vaughn and Madrigal too quick? Moving first-basemen to the OF? Training and conditioning sh*tting the bed on multiple players? Sounds like the Director of Player Development is the most important job in the organization, if that's all his responsibility. He was probably "demoted" to GM.

I'm not sure what you think the Player Development guy's job is. He doesn't run the entire organization. Everybody is saying he did a poor job, then they start naming things he had little to nothing to do with as evidence. When I point out actual players who graduated to the bigs, they were either too good, or too bad to count. I'm sure if I made an argument about Luis Robert, in about 6 posts, everyone would be screaming that Robert is a huge disappointment and shouldn't even be considered a "good" player. 

It’s amazing how a director of player development has no say in whether or not a player is called up. The org must not have trusted him at all to keep him locked out of that decision for top prospects.

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He came up and immediately led the league in strikeouts while being a below average defender. For a supposed number 1 prospect in baseball, yuck. Adley Rutschman in 2 seasons has put up 10 WAR, Moncada put up 2.

He came up, and his great strike zone judgement was highly criticized. So in his 2nd season, he got aggressive, and led the league in strikeouts. He was moved to 3rd base, where he adjusted and put up 5.2 bWAR. Huge disappointment. Again, y'all are grasping at straws. Victor Robles was the #2 prospect in all of baseball, and got cut a month ago, so that proves my point. 

[WhiteSox2023]

I know one thing — Getz sure didn’t help develop a single mediocre catcher worth making his 2024 roster, after having to acquire washed-up bums like Stassi and Maldonado.  I guess he didn’t have much faith in his development of Carlos Perez.

Edited December 27, 2023 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

It’s amazing how a director of player development has no say in whether or not a player is called up. The org must not have trusted him at all to keep him locked out of that decision for top prospects.

Or maybe the organization had a toxic VP making insane decisions and overruling everybody, which made the team fire him. It's almost like none of these stories were thoroughly reported. 

[caulfield12]

The two who might actually be worse would be Hostetler, Haber and let's throw whatever the heck has happened in the Dominican for all those many many years since the Dave Wilder Debacle.

And whoever decided we couldn't afford a single scout to consistently cover the Pacific Rim countries after Iguchi/Takatsu in the mid 2000's.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I like the cut of your jib.  

At least we have confirmed Harold is in fact Getz…one Soxtalk mystery solved

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

He came up, and his great strike zone judgement was highly criticized. So in his 2nd season, he got aggressive, and led the league in strikeouts. He was moved to 3rd base, where he adjusted and put up 5.2 bWAR. Huge disappointment. Again, y'all are grasping at straws. Victor Robles was the #2 prospect in all of baseball, and got cut a month ago, so that proves my point. 

His strikeout rate when he came up was 32% in half a season. It was 33% the next year when he was the worst in baseball. I’m grasping at straws and you are asserting these are clearly different?

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

Or maybe the organization had a toxic VP making insane decisions and overruling everybody, which made the team fire him. It's almost like none of these stories were thoroughly reported. 

Brooks Boyer or Williams, lol?

[caulfield12]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

At least we have confirmed Harold is in fact Getz…one Soxtalk mystery solved

Ask him whether the Sox should have acquired Jared Kelenic from SEA...?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

Or maybe the organization had a toxic VP making insane decisions and overruling everybody, which made the team fire him. It's almost like none of these stories were thoroughly reported. 

And that same toxic VP was there when Getz was brought in.

And the same inept owner who cared more about being surrounded by yes men than in fixing his organization - hired Chris Getz as his next GM.

[South Side Hit Men]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

He came up and immediately led the league in strikeouts while being a below average defender. For a supposed number 1 prospect in baseball, yuck. Adley Rutschman in 2 seasons has put up 10 WAR, Moncada put up 2. 

Adley gets a big WAR boost as a catcher. His first two seasons were his age 24 & 25 years, whereas Moncada was brought up here at age 22.

Have to swap out Moncada’s Age 25 season for 26 due to the cancelled season, but they match up.

Age 24 & 25 AR vs. Age 24 & 26 YM

Rutschman 9.6 bWAR, 267 G, .808 OPS

Moncada 9.2 bWAR, 276 G, .851 OPS

[ron883]

Lmao this thread is awesome 

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Lmao this thread is awesome 

Imagine working this hard to defend a guy that Jerry literally handed a job to.  An owner who has run a team that has been an epic failure for almost two decades.  The odds of Getz being a wizard GM, after being hand-picked by Jerry and while working under the limitations of Jerry as an owner are overwhelming, yet there are two posters who think he will make it happen.  Impressive.  I sure wouldn’t put my money on Getz, not even a dollar cuz I only have 50 cents like Kenny!

Edited December 27, 2023 by WhiteSox2023