Sox sign P Chris Flexen, DFA Carlos Perez

[chetkincaid]

10 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

 

Meet the new GM of the White Sox, same as the previous GM, and the previous GM before him.

Because it’s not the GM, it’s the owner. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by chetkincaid

[chetkincaid]

10 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  Getz is literally overpaying washed up bums at this point, and you could argue that they shouldn’t even be receiving anything but a minor league deal.

Months ago I said that the White Sox won’t be able to attract any viable free agents and the only player they’ll be able to sign are those who are near or at the end of their careers and can’t get a job anywhere else. This is really embarrassing. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by chetkincaid

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

Months ago I said that the White Sox won’t be able to attract any viable free agents and the only player they’ll be able to sign are those who are near or at the end of their careers and can’t get a job anywhere else. This is really embarrassing. 

The White Sox could easily sign viable free agents. They’d just have to offer more $ than anyone else - just like 95%+ of all free agents. Players go where they get the most money the vast majority of the time. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I have an irrational hate for pitchers that don’t K people.  It started with Keuchel and has manifested from there.  But in all seriousness, Flexin benefited a ton from pitching in Seattle.  Check his home / run splits and his projected HR totals at other parks if you don’t believe me.  I just don’t see the potential with him.

It's not like his K/9 is getting worse. Maybe his command was off and with non K pitchers that's a big deal. Get some command back and he could be back to where he was. How can you not see the potential when he's already done it ?

Look I'm not blind to what's going on. I've been saying all along when posters say that the Sox will be under under 100 losses , that up to this point in the off season I don't see any significant improvement. I said they couldn't win the AZL.

My outlook for the Sox is so bleak I often wonder why anyone sweats the minutiae right now, like why bother arguing with each other or Orioles fans? What will be will be. But that's what fans do.

I'm jaded as hell . I don't see upside with Maldonado at his age so if he can't be flipped I really have to question his true worth in the short time he's going to be here teaching or calling games with a bunch of pitchers whose goal it is to be good enough to be flipped. A catcher can call a great game but a pitcher has to hit his spots to be at his best.

My faint hope which fuels any subjective analysis is that a couple of guys can be flipped out of the pitchers that are given a shot in the rotation and BP. I haven't a clue which ones have the best chance at that and neither does anyone else. Our best guesses don't really mean much here. Plenty of players go from suck one year to good enough to trade the next year. Being under 30 ,healthy and having a recent record of success are all factors in Flexen's favor. Maybe Bannister , Katz, Maldonado and Stassi can help too. That's why they were hired , to take a lot of chicken s%*# and turn part of that big pile into chicken salad.

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's not like his K/9 is getting worse. Maybe his command was off and with non K pitchers that's a big deal. Get some command back and he could be back to where he was. How can you not see the potential when he's already done it ?

Look I'm not blind to what's going on. I've been saying all along when posters say that the Sox will be under under 100 losses , that up to this point in the off season I don't see any significant improvement. I said they couldn't win the AZL.

My outlook for the Sox is so bleak I often wonder why anyone sweats the minutiae right now, like why bother arguing with each other or Orioles fans? What will be will be. But that's what fans do.

I'm jaded as hell . I don't see upside with Maldonado at his age so if he can't be flipped I really have to question his true worth in the short time he's going to be here teaching or calling games with a bunch of pitchers whose goal it is to be good enough to be flipped. A catcher can call a great game but a pitcher has to hit his spots to be at his best.

My faint hope which fuels any subjective analysis is that a couple of guys can be flipped out of the pitchers that are given a shot in the rotation and BP. I haven't a clue which ones have the best chance at that and neither does anyone else. Our best guesses don't really mean much here. Plenty of players go from suck one year to good enough to trade the next year. Being under 30 ,healthy and having a recent record of success are all factors in Flexen's favor. Maybe Bannister , Katz, Maldonado and Stassi can help too. That's why they were hired , to take a lot of chicken s%*# and turn part of that big pile into chicken salad.

He’s 29, he has a 5 career ERA and his FIP is the same. Chances are, he’s a bad pitcher. The one caveat is he does have some control if somehow he reverts to his best season. Very unlikely. To me I thought, it’s whatever.? JR is showing he lied when he finally made public comments. And they seem to be all in on “culture” thinking everything changes if all the guys they bring in regardless of talent level are nice boys who call their mom every day. 

For once, I’d like them to identify the problem as either a lack of talent, and they have to improve the talent level, or if they really believe the talent level is fine, the total, utter lack of leadership, and not from players. Pin it on who it should be pinned, their joke of a manager. If the problem is culture, how is he exempt? 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

The fun thing is that, if you squint, you can understand the reason behind every other projected member of rotation, no matter how sad.

Chris Flexen is purely a "f*** you we're tanking for the 10th overall pick" move

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He’s 29, he has a 5 career ERA and his FIP is the same. Chances are, he’s a bad pitcher. The one caveat is he does have some control if somehow he reverts to his best season. Very unlikely. To me I thought, it’s whatever.? JR is showing he lied when he finally made public comments. And they seem to be all in on “culture” thinking everything changes if all the guys they bring in regardless of talent level are nice boys who call their mom every day. 

For once, I’d like them to identify the problem as either a lack of talent, and they have to improve the talent level, or if they really believe the talent level is fine, the total, utter lack of leadership, and not from players. Pin it on who it should be pinned, their joke of a manager. If the problem is culture, how is he exempt? 

I think my post made it pretty clear that I don't see much hope either for turning a huge pile of s%*# into enough to be traded so pointing out Flexen's negatives is preaching to the choir.

I've also made it clear in many past posts that the culture is a losing culture and that's on JR and the only reason for not firing Grifol is probably also on JR mainly because he is going to be paid even if he not here, so why pay 2 managers .

Even if it's possible Getz kept Grifol because of their KC connection all JR would have to say to Getz is Im not paying 2 managers and any chance Getz had of firing Grifol is gone.

I think the lack of talent is self evident and hearing Getz acknowledge that doesn't change the fact that JR isn't going to pay for talent that's worth anything right now and even if he does in the near future it'll be the kind of middling $10M older vets that  Hahn got that never seemed to pan out.

Everything we complain about is on Reinsdorf.

All I'm doing is clinging to any small sliver of hope that incrementally increases the chance of bringing in more prospects.

Since Bannister was brought in and takes pride in helping pitchers find what they once had, Getz's plan has been pretty obvious given the constraints he's dealing with. Turn some short term reclamation projects into prospects and do the same thing with Moncada , Eloy Vaughn and anyone else who happens to do well this year.

If by some miracle the Sox are within 5 games of 1st in the pathetic central approaching the trade deadline that will mean that some of the reclamation projects have panned out and they will be traded. That's best case scenario to perhaps gain 3 prospects from the pile of garbage off season acquisitions.

Of course that can all be negated by holding onto Cease and he pitches equal to or worse than last year.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

The fun thing is that, if you squint, you can understand the reason behind every other projected member of rotation, no matter how sad.

Chris Flexen is purely a "f*** you we're tanking for the 10th overall pick" move

 

Don't you think that was pretty clear before they got Flexen ?

Someone somewhere in the organization is also squinting on Flexen.

Boston squinted on Giolito for $38M. Slightly more open eyed squint but Giolitos 2nd half was pretty damn ugly too.

Lots of pitchers are being signed in the 10M+ range that you have to do a lot of squinting on. Obviously JR is not even going up to that level. Guys like Flexen is what Getz is reduced to doing. I'd rather he keeps trying than just give up.

Edited December 30, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

It’s funny, Chris Getz’s dumpster diving moves are similar to Rick Hahn’s competitive window moves. It’s uncanny!

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's not like his K/9 is getting worse. Maybe his command was off and with non K pitchers that's a big deal. Get some command back and he could be back to where he was. How can you not see the potential when he's already done it ?

Look I'm not blind to what's going on. I've been saying all along when posters say that the Sox will be under under 100 losses , that up to this point in the off season I don't see any significant improvement. I said they couldn't win the AZL.

My outlook for the Sox is so bleak I often wonder why anyone sweats the minutiae right now, like why bother arguing with each other or Orioles fans? What will be will be. But that's what fans do.

I'm jaded as hell . I don't see upside with Maldonado at his age so if he can't be flipped I really have to question his true worth in the short time he's going to be here teaching or calling games with a bunch of pitchers whose goal it is to be good enough to be flipped. A catcher can call a great game but a pitcher has to hit his spots to be at his best.

My faint hope which fuels any subjective analysis is that a couple of guys can be flipped out of the pitchers that are given a shot in the rotation and BP. I haven't a clue which ones have the best chance at that and neither does anyone else. Our best guesses don't really mean much here. Plenty of players go from suck one year to good enough to trade the next year. Being under 30 ,healthy and having a recent record of success are all factors in Flexen's favor. Maybe Bannister , Katz, Maldonado and Stassi can help too. That's why they were hired , to take a lot of chicken s%*# and turn part of that big pile into chicken salad.

Look, I’m not a pitching expert by any means, but I see a guy who benefited greatly from pitching in Seattle and who wouldn’t have been as successful elsewhere.  I see a guy who has always had below average stuff get his ass handed to him last year as his stuff regressed further.  I see a guy who in his only good major league season put up a BB that has never been replicated.

If you want to be an optimist, I’d just point to Bannister and highlight the fact that he likely picked this dude amongst all the possible dumpster dives.  And it’s very possible he’s more useful than I’m anticipating.  That being said, even if he reaches a best case projection, I just don’t see us getting much for him in a flip trade because he’s still just a BOR innings eater.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

He’s 29, he has a 5 career ERA and his FIP is the same. Chances are, he’s a bad pitcher. The one caveat is he does have some control if somehow he reverts to his best season. Very unlikely. To me I thought, it’s whatever.? JR is showing he lied when he finally made public comments. And they seem to be all in on “culture” thinking everything changes if all the guys they bring in regardless of talent level are nice boys who call their mom every day. 

For once, I’d like them to identify the problem as either a lack of talent, and they have to improve the talent level, or if they really believe the talent level is fine, the total, utter lack of leadership, and not from players. Pin it on who it should be pinned, their joke of a manager. If the problem is culture, how is he exempt? 

Does he have additional control?  Fangraphs shows him being a free agent after the season, but perhaps that is wrong.  If he does, then I’d like this move a tiny bit more.

[Dick Allen]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think my post made it pretty clear that I don't see much hope either for turning a huge pile of s%*# into enough to be traded so pointing out Flexen's negatives is preaching to the choir.

I've also made it clear in many past posts that the culture is a losing culture and that's on JR and the only reason for not firing Grifol is probably also on JR mainly because he is going to be paid even if he not here, so why pay 2 managers .

Even if it's possible Getz kept Grifol because of their KC connection all JR would have to say to Getz is Im not paying 2 managers and any chance Getz had of firing Grifol is gone.

I think the lack of talent is self evident and hearing Getz acknowledge that doesn't change the fact that JR isn't going to pay for talent that's worth anything right now and even if he does in the near future it'll be the kind of middling $10M older vets that  Hahn got that never seemed to pan out.

Everything we complain about is on Reinsdorf.

All I'm doing is clinging to any small sliver of hope that incrementally increases the chance of bringing in more prospects.

Since Bannister was brought in and takes pride in helping pitchers find what they once had, Getz's plan has been pretty obvious given the constraints he's dealing with. Turn some short term reclamation projects into prospects and do the same thing with Moncada , Eloy Vaughn and anyone else who happens to do well this year.

If by some miracle the Sox are within 5 games of 1st in the pathetic central approaching the trade deadline that will mean that some of the reclamation projects have panned out and they will be traded. That's best case scenario to perhaps gain 3 prospects from the pile of garbage off season acquisitions.

Of course that can all be negated by holding onto Cease and he pitches equal to or worse than last year.

 

If Lucas Giolito can get $20 million a year for 2 years, JR better sell. He can’t compete. Again I ask, how is what the Sox are currently doing any different or better than actually doing a search for a GM and hiring the best candidate and their actions “wasting a year”. 
 

His reason for hiring Getz was that he knew the organization. Considering they thought they had built a sustainable winning contender for years, and what they actually were, wouldn’t logic dictate the White Sox employees didn’t know what they had and what they were? And to think other teams employees know nothing about White Sox current players and prospects, and would need a year to figure it out makes no sense. Other teams know better than the Sox. That has been proven. The only reason they hired Pedro was because he told them what they wanted to hear, and they got what they bought.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Does he have additional control?  Fangraphs shows him being a free agent after the season, but perhaps that is wrong.  If he does, then I’d like this move a tiny bit more.

He is arb eligible for a couple more seasons.

[ChiSox59]

36 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He is arb eligible for a couple more seasons.

I do not believe that is the case. 

From MLbTR: 

Flexen returned to free agency at season’s end despite having less than six years of MLB service. That’s common for players who sign a major league deal after a stint in a foreign pro league, as he did during the 2020-21 offseason after one year in the Korea Baseball Organization. Flexen will be a free agent again next winter despite still not reaching the six-year threshold.

[Snopek]

Chris Flexen has never been on the Royals, but if you divide his career strikeouts and career WAR by his jersey number you get the lat/long coordinates of Kauffman Stadium.

[Highland]

This is what you get when you really don't have a major league roster. Just get bodies in there because you have no one else.  Next season has the potential to be more embarrassing than the last one.

[nrockway]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

The fun thing is that, if you squint, you can understand the reason behind every other projected member of rotation, no matter how sad.

Chris Flexen is purely a "f*** you we're tanking for the 10th overall pick" move

 

I see it more like "the team is bad and signing pitchers like Giolito to massive contracts isn't going to change anything, so sign depth pieces with retainable salaries who might perform and become a tradeable asset."

TBH this is how I'd hope a rebuild would look, the team isn't signing bad contracts in a desperate attempt sell one or two more tickets and a couple Stroman/Bellinger jerseys, but it is addressing AAAA type depth and signing players who won't hurt a rebuild, but might help it if a handful of them can turn around their performances.

It's actually kinda nice to see 4+ major league quality catchers and 8-10 pitchers in AA/AAA who could potentially join the major league team next year. A couple infielders match this description though outfield depth looks horrendous and is hopefully addressed.

I even have some optimism that if all these players hit and guys like Benintendi/Moncada/Vaughn play closer to their potential, the team is much better than it was last year and might even compete for the division title. 

[chetkincaid]

52 minutes ago, Highland said:

This is what you get when you really don't have a major league roster. Just get bodies in there because you have no one else.  Next season has the potential to be more embarrassing than the last one.

I want them to lose 120 games. 

[Quin]

23 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I see it more like "the team is bad and signing pitchers like Giolito to massive contracts isn't going to change anything, so sign depth pieces with retainable salaries who might perform and become a tradeable asset."

TBH this is how I'd hope a rebuild would look, the team isn't signing bad contracts in a desperate attempt sell one or two more tickets and a couple Stroman/Bellinger jerseys, but it is addressing AAAA type depth and signing players who won't hurt a rebuild, but might help it if a handful of them can turn around their performances.

It's actually kinda nice to see 4+ major league quality catchers and 8-10 pitchers in AA/AAA who could potentially join the major league team next year. A couple infielders match this description though outfield depth looks horrendous and is hopefully addressed.

I even have some optimism that if all these players hit and guys like Benintendi/Moncada/Vaughn play closer to their potential, the team is much better than it was last year and might even compete for the division title. 

I see you're a glass 1/10th full kinda guy

[flavum]

Carlos Perez DFA

[Timmy U]

To make room for Flexen, Carlos Perez DFA.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Timmy U said:

To make room for Flexen, Carlos Perez DFA.

Yah…Sox really didn’t like him. Made that pretty obvious. 

[Vote4Pedro]

Gonna love a future rotation of

Soroka

Fedde

Scholtens

Touki

Flexen

 

[nrockway]

19 minutes ago, Quin said:

I see you're a glass 1/10th full kinda guy

I just don't know what the expectation is: do what the Royals are doing? only point in signing free agents this offseason is to eventually trade them for minor leaguers IMO. signing guys with the potential for bounceback seasons feels like a far savvier investment than giving multiple years to Giolito types. If we had followed that logic and signed Bellinger over Benintendi, we might have one more top 100 prospect on the team. 

[ChiSox59]

7 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I just don't know what the expectation is: do what the Royals are doing? only point in signing free agents this offseason is to eventually trade them for minor leaguers IMO. signing guys with the potential for bounceback seasons feels like a far savvier investment than giving multiple years to Giolito types. If we had followed that logic and signed Bellinger over Benintendi, we might have one more top 100 prospect on the team. 

Yeah, but none of Maldonado, Hill or Flexen fit that description. Theyre just old and bad players that are what they are. Even if they have great first halfs, these guys aren’t returning anything more than backend 40 man / AAAA fluff best case scenario.