ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 24 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: No question. It was a bad contract to begin with. One of these days, teams will realize that one season of dominance do not make these players worth more than they really are. Unfortunately, all an agent needs is one team willing to spend and the price keeps going up. I agree that paying these contracts for pitchers just isn't worth it in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: This move clears some weak spots off the Giants roster but does nothing to replace them. It does remove a guy who pitched 100 innings for them last year that they'll need to replace, but he only gave them an ERA of 4.88 so it's not like replacing those innings is hard. And those are 81 games in that Frisco stadium…not exactly offense friendly at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 30 minutes ago, ptatc said: Unfortunately, all an agent needs is one team willing to spend and the price keeps going up. I agree that paying these contracts for pitchers just isn't worth it in the long run. Or even two years, in the case of Rodon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Is this a bad move for the Mariners? They turn Ray into two players that can potentially help them this year. They get back a guy in Haniger who has been a contributor for the Ms before but who wasn't any good last year, and a pitcher who was good a few years ago but not helpful last year. They took Ray's money and turned it into players who are at least on the roster this year and got out of their long-term commitment to him. The Giants get one thing out of this - the player with the highest ceiling. However, that player is coming off TJS done in early May 2023, so it's not at all difficult to see him not even pitching this year, and he's unlikely to give all that much in 2024 if he does make it back. At that level, it's like signing a guy to a 2 year, $50 million deal coming off of TJS, and giving up the other two guys on waivers. Why wouldn't you do this if you were the M's? Dude, just take the contrary bone out of your mouth: stop chewing on it, it's bad for oral health. It's a salary dump. Haniger is a busted down shell of himself. They were on the cusp of winning the division (after a mid offseason which in part created their slow start) and then at the trade deadline made a couple minor, timid moves again. And now? They already traded away their starting RF and 3B. They are clearing salary for Ohtani I guess. Oh wait... I've said it since I moved out here a decade ago: these two franchises, Seattle and the Sox, are two sides of the same coin. The similarities are remarkable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Dude, just take the contrary bone out of your mouth: stop chewing on it, it's bad for oral health. It's a salary dump. Haniger is a busted down shell of himself. They were on the cusp of winning the division (after a mid offseason which in part created their slow start) and then at the trade deadline made a couple minor, timid moves again. And now? They already traded away their starting RF and 3B. They are clearing salary for Ohtani I guess. Oh wait... I've said it since I moved out here a decade ago: these two franchises, Seattle and the Sox, are two sides of the same coin. The similarities are remarkable. Trading Sewald sure was a head scratcher, and Muñoz sure as hell didn't take up the mantle. Would have been nice to have an experienced closer down the stretch. Dumping Geno and Kelenic is just icing on the s%*# filled cake. Cutting costs is one thing, but seriously, WTF are we doing here? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 3 hours ago, Tnetennba said: Trading Sewald sure was a head scratcher, and Muñoz sure as hell didn't take up the mantle. Would have been nice to have an experienced closer down the stretch. Dumping Geno and Kelenic is just icing on the s%*# filled cake. Cutting costs is one thing, but seriously, WTF are we doing here? It almost seems like the Mariners are making trades for sake of making trades. Maybe, they are really going for 54% winning percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 5 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: Dude, just take the contrary bone out of your mouth: stop chewing on it, it's bad for oral health. It's a salary dump. Haniger is a busted down shell of himself. They were on the cusp of winning the division (after a mid offseason which in part created their slow start) and then at the trade deadline made a couple minor, timid moves again. And now? They already traded away their starting RF and 3B. They are clearing salary for Ohtani I guess. Oh wait... I've said it since I moved out here a decade ago: these two franchises, Seattle and the Sox, are two sides of the same coin. The similarities are remarkable. Mix in the Twins...although they won too much. Problem was always the post season until 2023. Now it's the Pohlads' spending or lack thereof. Seemingly, Javy Baez and Correa paralyzed the entire division...frozen in fear over a similar big contract going awry. Edited January 6 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 7 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Mix in the Twins...although they won too much. Problem was always the post season until 2023. Now it's the Pohlads' spending or lack thereof. Seemingly, Javy Baez and Correa paralyzed the entire division...frozen in fear over a similar big contract going awry. Really bad contracts nearly always make small to mid market teams hesitant to sign any big contracts. Large revenue teams can recover quickly, but small market teams do not. Teams like Baltimore, Miami, Cincinnati, Detroit, and Arizona (was not a bad but bloated contract) took long time to get out of bad contracts. Then again, teams like Colorado did not learn from their mistake. I think the Padres situation will be interesting for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 3 hours ago, Snowy Demon said: Really bad contracts nearly always make small to mid market teams hesitant to sign any big contracts. Large revenue teams can recover quickly, but small market teams do not. Teams like Baltimore, Miami, Cincinnati, Detroit, and Arizona (was not a bad but bloated contract) took long time to get out of bad contracts. Then again, teams like Colorado did not learn from their mistake. I think the Padres situation will be interesting for a long time. The perfect storm with a small market team...owner passing away and RSN contract ripped up, knocking out at least $50 million in additional spending. Then you have a GM under intense pressure to win (who keeps going through new managers like a house afire) and yet he's also rebuilt the farm back to #9 despite it all...only to blow it up yet again soon by trading for pitching and/or outfielders? Or signing Pacific Rim relievers because few teams can still afford $100 million for Hader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I don't get this at all for the SFG. I mean if Ray was healthy and not coming off an arm injury it would be a fair deal but to absorb that much salary for a guy who hasn't even pitched yet. These GM's are being extremely dumb taking risks on guys coming of TJ. He has what 3/75 remaining. One year is a wash due to what they traded but that is still 50M for a guy who is going to 33-34 for those last two years and you don't even know what he will be this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: I don't get this at all for the SFG. I mean if Ray was healthy and not coming off an arm injury it would be a fair deal but to absorb that much salary for a guy who hasn't even pitched yet. These GM's are being extremely dumb taking risks on guys coming of TJ. He has what 3/75 remaining. One year is a wash due to what they traded but that is still 50M for a guy who is going to 33-34 for those last two years and you don't even know what he will be this year. A guy, who hasn’t thrown a pitch in the MLB, just got 10 years, $326M. Gambling on essentially 2/$50M isn’t that crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: A guy, who hasn’t thrown a pitch in the MLB, just got 10 years, $326M. Gambling on essentially 2/$50M isn’t that crazy. If he was younger or had a year pitching away from surgery then sure. But I'd ask the question lets say he was 33 coming off TJ and 2022 would he get 2/50 in this market. For me the answer is no. He also has a PO so even if your gamble plays out he will likely opt out and leave. SFG take all the future risks with almost no upside. I honestly have no idea why MLB teams do these type of contracts. He also is going to miss probably close to the first half of next year, probably pitch around 100 innings if he manages to stay healthy and play well, and for that SFG are taking on 2/50 in future risk. That is a bad bet to me. Edited January 9 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said: I don't get this at all for the SFG. I mean if Ray was healthy and not coming off an arm injury it would be a fair deal but to absorb that much salary for a guy who hasn't even pitched yet. These GM's are being extremely dumb taking risks on guys coming of TJ. He has what 3/75 remaining. One year is a wash due to what they traded but that is still 50M for a guy who is going to 33-34 for those last two years and you don't even know what he will be this year. You have to take Haniger’s salary for ‘25 & ‘26 into consideration here, which is fairly significant and a big part of the trade for SF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You have to take Haniger’s salary for ‘25 & ‘26 into consideration here, which is fairly significant and a big part of the trade for SF. I don't see a salary for Haniger in '26, but B-R does show that his 2025 salary of $15.5 million is a team option, which SF has now dumped as well. Altogether then, they're taking on Ray at $35 million for the next 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I don't see a salary for Haniger in '26, but B-R does show that his 2025 salary of $15.5 million is a team option, which SF has now dumped as well. Altogether then, they're taking on Ray at $35 million for the next 2 years. Whoops…you are correct on no commitment in 2026, but 2025 is a player option per Spotrac and right now looks like it would be exercised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Whoops…you are correct on no commitment in 2026, but 2025 is a player option per Spotrac and right now looks like it would be exercised. I did not realize he had a player option, so excellent catch on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 1/6/2024 at 8:28 PM, Snowy Demon said: Really bad contracts nearly always make small to mid market teams hesitant to sign any big contracts. Large revenue teams can recover quickly, but small market teams do not. Teams like Baltimore, Miami, Cincinnati, Detroit, and Arizona (was not a bad but bloated contract) took long time to get out of bad contracts. Then again, teams like Colorado did not learn from their mistake. I think the Padres situation will be interesting for a long time. I'm assuming you were referring to Bumgarner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Whoops…you are correct on no commitment in 2026, but 2025 is a player option per Spotrac and right now looks like it would be exercised. The biggest problem is Haniger is now terrible...or SF made him look that way. They used to have too have (seeningly) many outfielders....Kyle Lewis, Trammell, Kelenic, Haniger, Winker, crazy how many of them completely blew up or wore out their welcomes after looking viable for stretches. As you said...White Sox-Esque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Whoops…you are correct on no commitment in 2026, but 2025 is a player option per Spotrac and right now looks like it would be exercised. Also a $1 million "trade assignment bonus" for what it's worth. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/seattle-mariners/mitch-haniger-18487/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: I'm assuming you were referring to Bumgarner? Greinke was another. He was good but $30+ millions per year then were way too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 48 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: Greinke was another. He was good but $30+ millions per year then were way too much. Also wasted a not insignificant amount of money on Yasmani Tomas as well. That's one of the biggest factors with the White Sox talent pipeline drying up in Cuba recently. Nothing out of Yogurt Sanchez, Norge Vera, Cespedes, Colas, etc. You simply need that constant infusion of young Latin American talent, especially when the DR has been a dry well for almost fifteen years now. Marco Paddy hit a very dry spell at the worst possible time. Wouldn't be totally shocked to see him move on as well in the next year or so. (But we have Yosimar Cousin now, haha.) Same happened with Rusney Castillo and the Red Sox...and the Dodgers blew a wad on that Cuban 2B who went down with assault/DV charges but it didn't faze them one bit in the overall scheme of things. When you're missing out on Latin America and totally outgunned in Asia, you're bound to suffer the consequences eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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