Lip Man 1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Nothing to lose by trying I guess but it is hard to see how he holds up and what his inning limit is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 24 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: What are the odds that he stays fully healthy as a reliever and gives them 60 outings this year to build some trade value as a reliever? If the chances of him getting hurt while trying to stretch out as a starter are 33%, and the chances of him getting hurt as a reliever are 25%, just to put example numbers on it - having success as a starter would make him way more valuable in a trade next year than if he was a reliever only. So maybe you raise the chances of injury a little bit, but you create a potential strong reward, and Crochet is totally cool with it since a successful starter might make $100 million+ and a successful reliever might make $20 million. And, if he does get hurt again as a starter, you still have 2 more years where you can move him back to the bullpen if it doesn't work. This is just a smart risk. It should have been the goal last year, to start stretching him out, but Rick Hahn was terrible. I don't have an issue with them stretching him out to some type of hybrid starter/opener/piggyback pitcher. I just don't think going past 80 innings is physically feasible. As I've always said with him or any other pitcher. He has an innings limit. I don't care if he throws them in the minors or majors, starting or bullpen. Innings are innings and he'll need to stick to it. He hasn't shown he can go 50 without injury so I don't know why anyone would push his innings into regular starter workload. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Crazy, I completely forgot Crochet was even on the team… At this point I’m pretty indifferent on him…if he wants to start, sure knock yourself out kid. But also seems like it will be another lost year for him…stretching his arm out to be a legit starter and keeping him at a realistic innings limit at the same time seems like a bit of an oxymoron. He’s going to need to be shutdown by the time he’s ready for the majors…if he makes it that far. But then again, unless he’s the closer, having him pitch 50 or so innings out of the pen in the 7th inning for a 100 loss team also isnt going to help him or the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 My guess as to how the innings might look: Fangraphs FIP Projections 140 Fedde 5.35 120 Cease (Traded in July) 4.30 120 Soroka 4.59 110 Toussaint 5.05 90 Kopech 5.34 70 Flexen 4.97 65 Crochet 4.03 60 Banks 4.37 60 Shuster 5.44 55 Santos 4.02 55 Garcia 5.40 50 Drohan 4.84 50 Lambert 5.13 50 Hill 4.86 45 Nastrini 5.35 40 Speas 4.53 40 Scholtens 4.89 40 Peralta 4.76 35 Kuhl 5.17 35 Ramsey 5.29 30 Eder 5.32 20 Leasure 4.70 20 Navarro 5.42 18 Cousins 4.59 16 Foster 4.94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: What in the world are you smoking? Right now they're a 100+ loss team easily and you have them winning 81 games. There's a couple of qualifiers in there. At least you were nice about it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: I will bet you that in August we are angry because of how often Dejong is playing while Montgomery is sitting. There's not a single thing this team could do in August of 2024 to make angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said: My guess as to how the innings might look: Fangraphs FIP Projections 140 Fedde 5.35 120 Cease (Traded in July) 4.30 120 Soroka 4.59 110 Toussaint 5.05 90 Kopech 5.34 70 Flexen 4.97 65 Crochet 4.03 60 Banks 4.37 60 Shuster 5.44 55 Santos 4.02 55 Garcia 5.40 50 Drohan 4.84 50 Lambert 5.13 50 Hill 4.86 45 Nastrini 5.35 40 Speas 4.53 40 Scholtens 4.89 40 Peralta 4.76 35 Kuhl 5.17 35 Ramsey 5.29 30 Eder 5.32 20 Leasure 4.70 20 Navarro 5.42 18 Cousins 4.59 16 Foster 4.94 Hard to pencil Santos in for ANYTHING at this point... Who the heck is Speas??? And what does that all up to? No Bush/Mena? Leasure is being counted on by quite a few to get a shot at closing if Santos can't go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, fathom said: It’s something they needed to try, but I will be shocked if his body holds up If you’re going to try this (which I’m ok with), you should be doing it in Charlotte and clawing back some team control for when it actually matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said: So he’s starting the year in Charlotte. And will be shutdown by June because of an innings limit. I don’t get how they are actually gonna pull this off with him. He has zero innings base. Did Getz say that? That would be fucking incredible if so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I think you send him to Charlotte and build innings there rather than burning more service time at the MLB level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 He’ll be on the IL before the end of April. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The truly amazing thing about this team is their 99% outcome might be under 500. The Sox could, if everything fell right, have a top 10 offense I think. If career years and health were existent, who knows. Their 99th percentile offense is top 10 well say. With pitching, you need to cover 800 innings with starters. Between soroka, crochet and kopech the Sox have about 200 innings. Fedde stinks, but let's say they let him stink for 150 innings. With cease gone, the Sox need to cover 450 innings with people not currently here lol. Man I don’t know how you see a 99% outcome being a top 10 offense with this crew. Right now, you are starting DeJong at SS, Lopez at 2B, Phillips in RF, and Maldonado / Stassi at CA. That’s four spots with zero offensive output even if Robert, Moncada, Eloy, Vaughn, & Benintendi are healthy & productive (which in multiple cases are big ifs). That could change some depending on what they get back for Cease, how Montgomery does if/when he’s called up, and if they add semi-component veteran RF, but right now I’d say the ceiling of this offense is probably closer to league average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 WestEddy: Genius move by Getz! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Did Getz say that? That would be fucking incredible if so. Getz did not, but I don't see anyway around it. He has to build innings and Charlotte is the best place to do that. He doesn't serve any value to the MLB team throwing 80 innings as a starter, with potentially skipping starts here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Crochet will be in Charlotte. His 1st 10 appearances will probably be 2 innings max with a SP schedule of throwing. He could be skipped a few times especially early in year depending on weather and how his arm feels preparing for his SP role. It's going to be a very slow process. If he sees any time with the Sox as Getz forecasts it will be after the trade deadline when it's possible with a lot of luck that Fedde, Soroka ,Flexen and Kopech are all traded. Likely outcome is that only 1 or 2 of them is traded. Also likely outcome is that Crochet doesn't stay healthy enough to pitch at all in the 2nd half of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 hours ago, ptatc said: With the scarcity of good pitching and even starters not going more than 5 innings, there needs to be some kind of innovation. I'm pretty sure the most innovative thing they are doing is collecting enough arms that already have enough innings on them and giving Bannister's pixie dust a chance to work enough to trade some of them. If you thought we saw bad after they dumped a lot of arms at the trade deadline last year you ain't seen nothin' yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I'm pretty sure the most innovative thing they are doing is collecting enough arms that already have enough innings on them and giving Bannister's pixie dust a chance to work enough to trade some of them. If you thought we saw bad after they dumped a lot of arms at the trade deadline last year you ain't seen nothin' yet. But we've got nearly 20 starters!!! Best depth in MLB...hands down. Charlotte and Birmingham fans champing at the bit for the season to get started. Didn't even need Patino or Urena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, WestEddy said: As I said in the Cease rumor thread, I like a rotation of Cease, Fedde, Kopech, Crochet and Soroka. If Cease leaves, there's 5-6 guys to shuffle through for a 5th man. I actually haven't felt this settled about an off-season in a while. At least now, the dumpster dives make sense. They're happening in context. We'll have positive WAR SS and 2B. If they pick up a RF, a few guys regress to the mean, I can actually see them challenging for a .500 record. Yeah, I mean the Sox are going to use 15+ starters this year as it looks today, might as well get 60-70 innings of five-and-dive out of Crochet as part of it. The bullpen is going to be complete trash, but all of these junkheap starter projects have to land somewhere, so maybe its best if they see if one or two can reinvent themselves as 7th-8th inning guys anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Crochet will be in Charlotte. His 1st 10 appearances will probably be 2 innings max with a SP schedule of throwing. He could be skipped a few times especially early in year depending on weather and how his arm feels preparing for his SP role. It's going to be a very slow process. If he sees any time with the Sox as Getz forecasts it will be after the trade deadline when it's possible with a lot of luck that Fedde, Soroka ,Flexen and Kopech are all traded. Likely outcome is that only 1 or 2 of them is traded. Also likely outcome is that Crochet doesn't stay healthy enough to pitch at all in the 2nd half of the season. The only thing more white Sox stupid than starting him in the rotation with no restrictions would be sending him to the bullpen and burying him there. They already did the dumbest one so I will expect him throwing 90 pitches in April in Chicago until proven otherwise. I will give them credit if I’m wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) 6 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The only thing more white Sox stupid than starting him in the rotation with no restrictions would be sending him to the bullpen and burying him there. They already did the dumbest one so I will expect him throwing 90 pitches in April in Chicago until proven otherwise. I will give them credit if I’m wrong. They certainly won't start him in the Sox rotation without restrictions. That would zombie like level of stupid. Between Fedde, Soroka, Kopech, Flexen, Toussaint and Scholtens baring injury that's 6 starting pitchers or 5 and 1 long reliever. We haven't talked about how Davis Martin's innings will play out either. I think they have their hands full without throwing Crochet to the dogs at the MLB level and know that him burning any more of his service time is very wasteful. Of course Getz did say they expected him to pitch in 2024 for the Sox as a SP but that's either extremely optimistic given his innings and health issues or as you said pretty dumb . Edited January 10 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: They certainly won't start him in the Sox rotation without restrictions. That would zombie like level of stupid. Between Fedde, Soroka, Kopech, Flexen, Toussaint and Scholtens baring injury that's 6 starting pitchers or 5 and 1 long reliever. We haven't talked about how David Martin's innings will play out either. I think they have their hands full without throwing Crochet to the dogs at the MLB level and know that him burning any more of his service time is very wasteful. Of course Getz did say they expected him to pitch in 2024 for the Sox as a SP but that's either extremely optimistic given his innings and health issues or as you said pretty dumb . Davis Martin? I can never remember his name clearly, as it's so darned generic. Always makes me think of Davis Love IInd or IIIrd PGAer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie for Manager Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 1/9/2024 at 5:34 PM, ptatc said: I don't have an issue with them stretching him out to some type of hybrid starter/opener/piggyback pitcher. I just don't think going past 80 innings is physically feasible. As I've always said with him or any other pitcher. He has an innings limit. I don't care if he throws them in the minors or majors, starting or bullpen. Innings are innings and he'll need to stick to it. He hasn't shown he can go 50 without injury so I don't know why anyone would push his innings into regular starter workload. I guess this just makes me laugh. Guys all used to pitch 200+ innings and we are talking about a first round pick not being able to go 80 innings. Give me a break. I threw that many innings in high school. Some of these guys need to just man up. I am glad Crochet wants to be a SP, wasting a top 15 pick on a RP is just dumb. You know how to get to where you can pitch close to 200 innings? You actually pitch more and more and build up your arm strength. Real pitchers like Scherzer and Verlander are throwing more innings in their 40s than these p*****s. Those guys threw 10 and 15 years of 200 innings. Verlander has TJ surgery and what does he do? Throws 175 innings and has a 18-4 record. These guys can't pitch because their arm has some soreness nowadays. Its supposed to be sore, get out there and throw some more and build it up while its a little sore. You ever hear of Verlander and Scherzer complain of a sore forearm. Let Crochet pitch and let him be sore, if he is a man he will throw 150 innings. Otherwise cut his ass loose. Edited January 11 by pmb0928 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 4 minutes ago, pmb0928 said: I guess this just makes me laugh. Guys all used to pitch 200+ innings and we are talking about a first round pick not being able to go 80 innings. Give me a break. I threw that many innings in high school. Some of these guys need to just man up. I am glad Crochet wants to be a SP, wasting a top 15 pick on a RP is just dumb. You know how to get to where you can pitch close to 200 innings? You actually pitch more and more and build up your arm strength. Real pitchers like Scherzer and Verlander are throwing more innings in their 40s than these p*****s. Those guys threw 10 and 15 years of 200 innings. Verlander has TJ surgery and what does he do? Throws 175 innings and has a 18-4 record. These guys can't pitch because their arm has some soreness nowadays. Its supposed to be sore, get out there and throw some more and build it up while its a little sore. You ever hear of Verlander and Scherzer complain of a sore forearm. Let Crochet pitch and let him be sore, if he is a man he will throw 15 innings. Otherwise cut his ass loose. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 9 minutes ago, pmb0928 said: I guess this just makes me laugh. Guys all used to pitch 200+ innings and we are talking about a first round pick not being able to go 80 innings. Give me a break. I threw that many innings in high school. Some of these guys need to just man up. I am glad Crochet wants to be a SP, wasting a top 15 pick on a RP is just dumb. You know how to get to where you can pitch close to 200 innings? You actually pitch more and more and build up your arm strength. Real pitchers like Scherzer and Verlander are throwing more innings in their 40s than these p*****s. Those guys threw 10 and 15 years of 200 innings. Verlander has TJ surgery and what does he do? Throws 175 innings and has a 18-4 record. These guys can't pitch because their arm has some soreness nowadays. Its supposed to be sore, get out there and throw some more and build it up while its a little sore. You ever hear of Verlander and Scherzer complain of a sore forearm. Let Crochet pitch and let him be sore, if he is a man he will throw 15 innings. Otherwise cut his ass loose. Unfortunately, we don't train them the way we used to. That's the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 48 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Davis Martin? I can never remember his name clearly, as it's so darned generic. Always makes me think of Davis Love IInd or IIIrd PGAer. Martin like Santos is basically an unknown right now until shown otherwise given his TJ surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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