Sox looking at building in South Loop

[South Side Hit Men]

Has Tray outed himself in the Chicago Tribune with this published letter to the editor?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/02/13/letters-illinois-should-not-pay-for-another-white-sox-stadium/

Quote

Reinsdorf is a business owner, not a sportsman. 

What are the odds that any other human being in 2024 still uses this term?

The last time I said the word is when I worked at the track in Cicero in high school and college, well before Sportman's Park shuttered for good for their ill-fated auto track fiasco.

Buggies - Gil Levine With The Call

Flats - Phil Georgeff With The Call

 

[LittleHurtCG]

On 2/11/2024 at 7:15 PM, DFAthewave69420 said:

All the people on the side of “No Taxpayer Funding” who is paying for the Mayor to attend the Grammys and this genius with VIP Tix to the super bowl ?

 

newsflash - better off with your “taxes” to a stadium than the government.

 

https://x.com/chicagocontrar1/status/1756841466863751546?s=46

Most people who are opposed to masive taxpayer funding for billionaires to build sports stadiums are also against public officials taking lavish trips on the taxpayer dime. Not too complicated really. 

[Sleepy Harold]

JR was just waiting for these to drop so he could copy them for the real Sox design

 

[Tnetennba]

9 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

JR was just waiting for these to drop so he could copy them for the real Sox design

 

GASP. But where are all of the Royals fans going to park?!

[tray]

13 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

GASP. But where are all of the Royals fans going to park?!

Parking is important to many suburban Sox fans. It's really not worth the gamble of building this thing and risk losing a sizable number of fans who choose to drive for security, time requirements, convenience and safety for their families.

The 78 site plan is a joke in many ways as is the nondescript design of the stadium itself.  What is in that glass box bldg. with "Sox" on it ? Elevators to club boxes?  Gratuitous exploding pinwheels? Ugh. I see a predominance of modern architectural elements like metal beams and rectangular glass that will no doubt be replicated in surrounding flat-roofed buildings. Virtually nothing about 78 is unique let alone special and the site sucks in so many ways. By contrast fans refer to "Beautiful Wrigley Field" because it has so many things about it that make it so.

IMO, there is absolutely no compelling need to move from 35th Street. Renegotiate the Lease and when the time is right, replace it with a beautiful new stadium incorporating  brick, wrought iron, arches, etc. on the grounds of the original Comiskey. The designs of the architect that designed both Comiskey and Wrigley contain a lot of clues that could be used to make a new park a memorable experience and one that does justice to the long history of the South Side White Sox, the original Comiskey Park, and the surrounding neighborhoods.

 

 

 

Edited February 14 by tray

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, tray said:

Parking is important to many suburban Sox fans. It's really not worth the gamble of building this thing and risk losing a sizable number of fans who choose to drive for security, time requirements, convenience and safety for their families.

The 78 site plan is a joke in many ways as is the nondescript design of the stadium itself.  What is in that glass box bldg. with "Sox" on it ? Elevators to club boxes?  I see a predominance of modern architectural elements like metal beams and rectangular glass that will no doubt be replicated in surrounding flat-roofed buildings. Virtually nothing about 78 is unique let alone special and the site sucks in so many ways. By contrast fans refer to "Beautiful Wrigley Field" because it has so many things about it that make it so.

IMO, there is absolutely no compelling need to move from 35th Street. Renegotiate the Lease and when the time is right, replace it with a beautiful new stadium incorporating  brick, wrought iron, arches, etc. on the grounds of the original Comiskey. The designs of the architect that designed both Comiskey and Wrigley contain a lot of clues that could be used to make a new park a memorable experience and one that does justice to the long history of the South Side White Sox, the original Comiskey Park, and the surrounding neighborhoods.

 

 

 

While I do find some of your comments off base, security is a growing concern, especially for a fanbase that looks for excuses not to go to games. Reality or not, Chicago has a reputation right now as being very dangerous. My company has a conference every year, and it's location is rotated. Every other year in Chicago, every other year, someplace else. Not anymore. People are afraid to come, so it won't be in Chicago for quite a while. Now lets not use any public money to hire the thousands of cops the city is short. No, give that money to Related and JR's heirs, they can really use it. They have this plot of land where everyone wants to party, yet can't get anything built unless you line their pockets..

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

While I do find some of your comments off base, security is a growing concern, especially for a fanbase that looks for excuses not to go to games. Reality or not, Chicago has a reputation right now as being very dangerous. My company has a conference every year, and it's location is rotated. Every other year in Chicago, every other year, someplace else. Not anymore. People are afraid to come, so it won't be in Chicago for quite a while. Now lets not use any public money to hire the thousands of cops the city is short. No, give that money to Related and JR's heirs, they can really use it. They have this plot of land where everyone wants to party, yet can't get anything built unless you line their pockets..

The City of Chicago should simply say we'll build your stadium the next time you guys win a playoff series.

Odds are it would take a decade or more for that to even happen....plus another 3-5 years to get the stadium built.

[Dick Allen]

25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The City of Chicago should simply say we'll build your stadium the next time you guys win a playoff series.

Odds are it would take a decade or more for that to even happen....plus another 3-5 years to get the stadium built.

Exactly, this is going to be a years long process. We just started the first inning and the White Sox hit a home run getting their fanbase interested and excited about the new location and new park. However, they have a crappy pitching staff and no bullpen, so they game is far from over.

This was the easiest part for the Sox. The one thing they may have learned is unlike Comiskey Park, their fanbase has zero attachment to their current home. They may have thought there was at least some.

[tray]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The one thing they may have learned is unlike Comiskey Park, their fan base has zero attachment to their current home. They may have thought there was at least some.

OK, so you don't hop on the first plan - building a ballpark with no character and no parking designed by a developer to maximize their profits on a garbage site. There is time to seek some better alternatives.

"While I do find some of your comments off base, security is a growing concern, especially for a fanbase that looks for excuses not to go to games."

Yes two shootings in Chinatown yesterday.  Gun violence is kind of everywhere in the country right now, especially in urban areas so no getting away from that.  A reasonably secure parking lot should be part of any new plan. My arguments, including the parking issue, are not "off base" or uncommon as one can see by reading numerous fan reactions on XTwitter when this was proposed. As with many developers, the site plan is overdeveloped with buildings and a lack of open space. Parking for surrounding buildings, especially on game days is not clear nor is vehicular ingress/egress.  If the entire site was developed exclusively for the White Sox and included parking, that would be different, but apparently, that is not Related's intention. Meanwhile the ISFA is sitting on 72 acres + on 35th Street with ease of access to the Expressway and mass transit. The reasons for moving from the South side make no sense.  Maybe the Bears would consider it.

[Dick Allen]

27 minutes ago, tray said:

OK, so you don't hop on the first plan - building a ballpark with no character and no parking designed by a developer to maximize their profits on a garbage site. There is time to seek some better alternatives.

"While I do find some of your comments off base, security is a growing concern, especially for a fanbase that looks for excuses not to go to games."

Yes two shootings in Chinatown yesterday.  Gun violence is kind of everywhere in the country right now, especially in urban areas so no getting away from that.  A reasonably secure parking lot should be part of any new plan. My arguments, including the parking issue, are not "off base" or uncommon as one can see by reading numerous fan reactions on XTwitter when this was proposed. As with many developers, the site plan is overdeveloped with buildings and a lack of open space. Parking for surrounding buildings, especially on game days is not clear nor is vehicular ingress/egress.  If the entire site was developed exclusively for the White Sox and included parking, that would be different, but apparently, that is not Related's intention. Meanwhile the ISFA is sitting on 72 acres + on 35th Street with ease of access to the Expressway and mass transit. The reasons for moving from the South side make no sense.  Maybe the Bears would consider it.

We had people shot in the park, and you can bet JR would love to have the ace in the hole that the shots came from the surrounding neighborhood if he's looking to move. Too bad he couldn't make that one stick.

[soxfan18]

Stop saying there's no parking. There's been plenty out there saying there will be 4,000 dedicated spots. Not to mention all the other garages and SpotHero options in the area.

[bmags]

8 hours ago, tray said:

Parking is important to many suburban Sox fans. It's really not worth the gamble of building this thing and risk losing a sizable number of fans who choose to drive for security, time requirements, convenience and safety for their families.

The 78 site plan is a joke in many ways as is the nondescript design of the stadium itself.  What is in that glass box bldg. with "Sox" on it ? Elevators to club boxes?  Gratuitous exploding pinwheels? Ugh. I see a predominance of modern architectural elements like metal beams and rectangular glass that will no doubt be replicated in surrounding flat-roofed buildings. Virtually nothing about 78 is unique let alone special and the site sucks in so many ways. By contrast fans refer to "Beautiful Wrigley Field" because it has so many things about it that make it so.

IMO, there is absolutely no compelling need to move from 35th Street. Renegotiate the Lease and when the time is right, replace it with a beautiful new stadium incorporating  brick, wrought iron, arches, etc. on the grounds of the original Comiskey. The designs of the architect that designed both Comiskey and Wrigley contain a lot of clues that could be used to make a new park a memorable experience and one that does justice to the long history of the South Side White Sox, the original Comiskey Park, and the surrounding neighborhoods.

 

 

 

Modern architectural design will NEVER fit in ...chicago

[greg775]

When will this new stadium be open?

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

When will this new stadium be open?

I'm guessing 9 or 10 years if all goes well. They might beat the Bears.

[Dick Allen]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

Modern architectural design will NEVER fit in ...chicago

All the new places being drawn up, look essentially the same outside the park. You can bet by the time this one is built, a new, cooler concept will be on drawing boards, leaving the Sox behind from the time it opens.

[hogan873]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I'm guessing 9 or 10 years if all goes well. They might beat the Bears.

I think they will try their hardest to have it ready for the 2030 season.  They'll have to get the process going very soon, and then need every minute of the next 6 years.

[bmags]

27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

All the new places being drawn up, look essentially the same outside the park. You can bet by the time this one is built, a new, cooler concept will be on drawing boards, leaving the Sox behind from the time it opens.

I could really care less. The benefit this design has for the sox is taking advantage of the beauty surrounding the stadium. Much of it visible while sitting in your seats. 

Add to that a place to sit along the river. Those are nice things. The "garble it will have GLASS" stuff is fake. I believe you all that you don't want a stadium, I don't believe your excuses.

[bmags]

27 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I think they will try their hardest to have it ready for the 2030 season.  They'll have to get the process going very soon, and then need every minute of the next 6 years.

Possible for the stadium, the full plans I don't think can happen before 2034 or 2035

[southsider2k5]

53 minutes ago, soxfan18 said:

Stop saying there's no parking. There's been plenty out there saying there will be 4,000 dedicated spots. Not to mention all the other garages and SpotHero options in the area.

There are a ton of spaces in the financial district that sit empty all night long.

[southsider2k5]

6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

While I do find some of your comments off base, security is a growing concern, especially for a fanbase that looks for excuses not to go to games. Reality or not, Chicago has a reputation right now as being very dangerous. My company has a conference every year, and it's location is rotated. Every other year in Chicago, every other year, someplace else. Not anymore. People are afraid to come, so it won't be in Chicago for quite a while. Now lets not use any public money to hire the thousands of cops the city is short. No, give that money to Related and JR's heirs, they can really use it. They have this plot of land where everyone wants to party, yet can't get anything built unless you line their pockets..

Just to say it out loud, staffing funds and things like TIF money are completely different funds and are almost certainly not fungible funds.  If this money exists in funds for development, it just means some other millionaire/billionaire will get them if Jerry doesn't.

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Just to say it out loud, staffing funds and things like TIF money are completely different funds and are almost certainly not fungible funds.  If this money exists in funds for development, it just means some other millionaire/billionaire will get them if Jerry doesn't.

so you think TIF money is going to be the ask? I'm saying they haven't even mentioned how it's going to be paid for yet, because they are going to be asking for more than anyone has ever asked for before probably times 3 or 4. All so a billionaire who hasn't put the fans anywhere near first the last decade and a half, can have more money when he dies. This will be so drawn out, unless JR and Related shock us all with tons of private financing. And we know that isn't going to happen.

And even if it all means some other billionaire with get the funds, good. The State and City have already given JR billions if you think about it. If they don't built GRF, JR goes to Tampa? How would that of worked out? Plus he pisses so many people off, he sells the Bulls before their dynasty. I know its corny, but JR owes us something.

Edited February 14 by Dick Allen

[nitetrain8601]

20 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

GASP. But where are all of the Royals fans going to park?!

It's a beautiful stadium I say. Plot twist, the parking is in the building in right field, they just put a bunch of lights to appease all KC fans and Tray.

[caulfield12]

https://www.royalsreview.com/2024/2/14/23985092/what-i-like-love-and-dont-like-about-the-proposed-downtown-ballpark

Looks at all the angles positive and negative of Royals downtown stadium proposal.

 

"The Royals have also made some serious concessions, such as pledging to cover cost overruns and insurance costs, although their current agreement is non-binding. As far as what they are asking taxpayers, it certainly isn’t as onerous as some other lavish public subsidies for stadiums, simply an extension of what taxpayers are already paying. The team seems committed to a community benefits agreement with plenty of touted benefits, although the follow-through is the important thing to watch there."

.....

"There are still unanswered questions remaining. The entire funding picture for the project remains a bit vague, with the team asking Jackson County taxpayers to extend the 3/8 cent sales tax another 40 years to raise about $350 million, the team pledging to pay the $1 billion costs of the ballpark district, and the remaining $650 million for ballpark funding unaccounted for."

I find a general sales tax on all voters to fund the stadium rather distasteful, as sales taxes are quite regressive and it seems unfair to use public funds to subsidize billion-dollar sports franchises. If public funds are necessary, a ticket tax seems much fairer, requiring fans of the team to pay costs rather than residents who will never attend a game, Even tax increment financing - where taxes raised from the economic activity of the project are used to fund the project itself - seems preferable to asking a poor individual in eastern Jackson County who doesn’t care for sports to pay a tax to fund John Sherman’s stadium."

Edited February 14 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

28 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

so you think TIF money is going to be the ask? I'm saying they haven't even mentioned how it's going to be paid for yet, because they are going to be asking for more than anyone has ever asked for before probably times 3 or 4. All so a billionaire who hasn't put the fans anywhere near first the last decade and a half, can have more money when he dies. This will be so drawn out, unless JR and Related shock us all with tons of private financing. And we know that isn't going to happen.

And even if it all means some other billionaire with get the funds, good. The State and City have already given JR billions if you think about it. If they don't built GRF, JR goes to Tampa? How would that of worked out? Plus he pisses so many people off, he sells the Bulls before their dynasty. I know its corny, but JR owes us something.

If I had to guess, yes absolutely there will be TIF money involved and other developmental money, including the ISFA funds.  It is a win/win because the city of Chicago gets to say no "new" taxes went to this, as these funds are already being accrued, and JR gets what he wants.  Judging by the PR campaign and the way that this is being portrayed by both sides, I believe this is almost a done deal.  Granted I could be totally wrong, but notice no one denied any of this or gave any real level of tough talk past a few lame talking points.  I am sure they will squeeze a concession or two out of JR so the City gets their victory publicly, but honestly no matter where a stadium gets done in Chicago, the basic framework of what happens and how it gets paid for will be the same.

[Dick Allen]

33 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If I had to guess, yes absolutely there will be TIF money involved and other developmental money, including the ISFA funds.  It is a win/win because the city of Chicago gets to say no "new" taxes went to this, as these funds are already being accrued, and JR gets what he wants.  Judging by the PR campaign and the way that this is being portrayed by both sides, I believe this is almost a done deal.  Granted I could be totally wrong, but notice no one denied any of this or gave any real level of tough talk past a few lame talking points.  I am sure they will squeeze a concession or two out of JR so the City gets their victory publicly, but honestly no matter where a stadium gets done in Chicago, the basic framework of what happens and how it gets paid for will be the same.

There is no way it's close to a done deal. As a White Sox fan who thinks the new park and location are pretty cool, and as a citizen of Chicago who already had to fund a couple of shortfalls with this tax, I would rather they reallocate the funds this tax creates when the GRF debt is supposedly retired in 2029. How about spending it on getting some of the 1500 cops lost they last 7 years replaced, and making it a better place to live?  No new taxes, we have more cops would be a win.I get the TIF money is going to be spent by someone, but this thing is going to cost a s%*# ton more than that. If they say $9 million now, it's probably closer to at least $15 billion if it ever gets built. 

 

One potential funding source would be to use increases in property taxes to pay debt on the project, which also would likely require a change in the law.

Edited February 14 by Dick Allen