Sox looking at building in South Loop

[ptatc]

30 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Also keep in mind if this place is as hot as people claim, 5 million a year, that's going to require some police. City is way short right now. Who pays?

That will all be in the negotiations. If it gets approved I would guess there will be some sort of split. But that is pure speculation on my part. There are months of negotiations. 

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I can only speak for myself but I'm simply tired of this ownership.

Of the penny pinching ways, the still insane desire to destroy the MLBPA, the arrogant attitude of "We know better, who are you to even question us" when history shows that way doesn't work, the inbred hiring of just members of the "family" over the years (like this was the mafia) and the incompetent, dysfunctional and inept decisions to go along with the back biting and power struggles (as outlined in my November 2022 story "The State of the Sox.") inside the organization.

To say nothing of the garbage baseball on the field.

From 1981 through 2006 Sox fans at least could reasonably think the franchise would at least have a winning season and at least be competitive, the numbers show that. 

But since 2007 it has ben a total clusterfuck, one of the worst records in baseball and that's saying something.

Now after JR getting what he wanted in the late 80's suddenly what he demanded back then isn't good enough.

In my opinion it would be good enough if there was a good organization and he would keep his nose out of the baseball side of things. Again he thinks he knows better than everyone in the room. The latest debacle being TLR.

He doesn't.

And I think it's a good guess a large portion of them fan base is simply tired and want him gone one way or the other.

Just leave and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

If fans are complaining they have every right to be given the misery they have seen on the field especially the last 17 years and the dysfunction in the front office.

I don't blame them one bit. And the organization (and some fans) should kiss the asses of every fan who after all this still actually cares enough to complain.

They aren't far away from what's even worse. Total apathy. 

 

There is not total apathy. Just listen to the news and read this board. There is actual hatred. There are many posts on here stating they can't wait until he dies.

[soxfan18]

38 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

So far, no. Nothing has been built either here, or any sane person would tell you, a better location, and easier access to the expressway, Lincoln Yards. 

What makes Lincoln Yards a better location? It's further from downtown and has poor transit accessibility (I spent 2 years living right off the Armitage stop, it's not exactly down the street).

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

 

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I didn’t realize that this many Sox fans care more about Jerry losing than the organization actually winning.

And the stability and longevity of the org in this city. I'm a white sox fan and my son will be, and I looked forward to very few things more than sharing those same experiences with my son that I shared with my dad.

People have been so broken here they'd rather see the Sox playing in another city or a deadbeat location just because they hate Jerry. They hate him more than they'd like to see a dream-like scenario happen to a team they love... over what? Allocated tax dollars by a state and city that has pissed away tax dollars and endless things I didn't support. And mostly tourist tax dollars! And for what? So that plot of land can remained undeveloped until the city eventually grants some sweetheart deal to some other developer? 

Give me a break. 

[Lightly Folded]

5 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

The Bears have always maintained that they want their new stadium to be privately financed -- McCaskey is quoted saying this during a public forum in Arlington Heights a few years ago: https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/09/09/bears-plan-for-5-billion-stadium-campus-doesnt-include-retractable-roof-and-would-need-public-funding-team-says/.

The public money they want is for infrastructure -- similar to how SoFi Stadium was built in LA.

If that's still the case, then a privately funded domed stadium for the Bears (and other events) is a much easier sell than an entirely publicly funded stadium for the second MLB team in town, which has no real name recognition outside of Chicago and won't move the tourism needle at all, unlike Wrigley Field.

True, the Bears only play eight games a year. But there's also the potential for other big events like Super Bowl, Final Four and concerts (where they would successfully compete with Reinsdorf's United Center, especially for bigger acts). Also, a domed stadium could conceivably be used for spillover convention-related events.

In this current financial climate, no new stadiums really make sense for Chicago. But a domed stadium for the Bears and other events makes much more sense than an unnecessary baseball-only facility for a mediocre organization in a sport with an aging fan base.

 

What the Bears pretend and what they do remain to be seen. They will ask for some public financing for the stadium itself. The Bears continuously lie but are clever about it. Your statement about the sox and tourist coming to the 78 is ludicrous. 

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

There's more support for this deal from my non-chicagoian loop-living friends than there is on soxtalk. Honestly unbelievable 

[waltwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said:

What the Bears pretend and what they do remain to be seen. They will ask for some public financing for the stadium itself. The Bears continuously lie but are clever about it. Your statement about the sox and tourist coming to the 78 is ludicrous. 

 

I'm guessing you're not from Chicago.

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, soxfan18 said:

What makes Lincoln Yards a better location? It's further from downtown and has poor transit accessibility (I spent 2 years living right off the Armitage stop, it's not exactly down the street).

Closer to hotter areas. Right by an expressway, right by a Metra stop.....transit upgrades are part of their plan including taking a riverboat to and from the Loop.

[Dick Allen]

19 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That will all be in the negotiations. If it gets approved I would guess there will be some sort of split. But that is pure speculation on my part. There are months of negotiations. 

C'mon man. JR claims he wants to start this year and open in 2028. Must be someting in his current lease for that last season or 2 he doesn't like.

Edited February 23 by Dick Allen

[Big Hurtin]

18 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

So I’ve been told Reinsdorf wants one billion dollars PLUS the motel tax thing and I’ve also been told that the billion dollars is the motel tax thing. I’ve also been told he now wants two billion. What’s the correct dope?

Either Reinsdorf or the taxpayer, depending how this goes.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

That's BS. No team has ever been given by any state or city, JR's ask. Not even half. Related is scrambling. Office buildings are out, so the people that would have worked in them won't be interested in Apartments right there. Again, they claim that if the state builds what they want built, others will follow, AND use their own money. Do they have commitments? It's just more BS. It's time to tell Jerry, he has the park he designed. He has been offered development in the parking lots for OVER 20 years. He said no. I told this board about this way back when. He thought building bars and restaurants in the parking lots would hurt the beer and food sales in the ballpark, while also hurting his parking money. Now, it is exactly what he needs to compete with the Royals. I think it could be done very nicely and a lot cheaper than the 4 billion ask. Maybe not at the 78, and I liked the renderings. I would love to go to games there. It's closer to me. But not at that cost. If you don't like the current park, the same guy is making the calls on this one. Keep that in mind.

The current park is fine, the location isn't great.

I also don't know how to break the news on this, but developing the parking lots with restaurants and bars and retail in an area of the city that wasn't very popular, and was actually a rough neighborhood for a long time, doesn't make much sense. 

You're telling me the place will sit vacant when the Sox leave... that doesn't speak well of your belief that Jerry should have built that area up. If other developers see no promise, why should he have?

The 78 has been a place people wanted to develop. It's not at all similar to 35th and shields.

[Harry Chappas]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Closer to hotter areas. Right by an expressway, right by a Metra stop.....transit upgrades are part of their plan including taking a riverboat to and from the Loop.

What is the public funding for that?

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The current park is fine, the location isn't great.

I also don't know how to break the news on this, but developing the parking lots with restaurants and bars and retail in an area of the city that wasn't very popular, and was actually a rough neighborhood for a long time, doesn't make much sense. 

You're telling me the place will sit vacant when the Sox leave... that doesn't speak well of your belief that Jerry should have built that area up. If other developers see no promise, why should he have?

The 78 has been a place people wanted to develop. It's not at all similar to 35th and shields.

LMAO the 78 has been vacant for around 50 years. People have wanted to build on it, but it costs money, and the people who loan others money didn't think it was such a great idea.  I hope they build the thing, I really do. I just don't think JR and Related should get billions more than the TIFs in place.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I am team Lot 78

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

LMAO the 78 has been vacant for around 50 years. People have wanted to build on it, but it costs money, and the people who loan others money didn't think it was such a great idea.  I hope they build the thing, I really do. I just don't think JR and Related should get billions more than the TIFs in place.

Yes, vacant but not undesirable. The site required a lot of work and cleanup and the location has only improved.

You've spent pages arguing against everything about this so its difficult to believe this is something you support.

[ptatc]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

C'mon man. JR claims he wants to start this year and open in 2028. Must be someting in his current lease for that last season or 2 he doesn't like.

I would doubt it. There is a very different environment in economics and politics today. If the politicians give in to that it's their own fault.

Edited February 23 by ptatc

[Lightly Folded]

9 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

I'm guessing you're not from Chicago.

Been here for seven decades. The design for this proposed park indicates capacity of 35,000ish or so. They would sell out every game for a few  years to start and build fan support along the way. You want to keep the Sox the 2nd team then keep the at 35th st. There is NO reason why two MLB teams can’t be co-equals in a city like Chicago. The Sox have to come out of their backwater existence in Bridgeport and join the outside world via the 78.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said:

Been here for seven decades. The design for this proposed park indicates capacity of 35,000ish or so. They would sell out every game for a few  years to start and build fan support along the way. You want to keep the Sox the 2nd team then keep the at 35th st. There is NO reason why two MLB teams can’t be co-equals in a city like Chicago. The Sox have to come out of their backwater existence in Bridgeport and join the outside world via the 78.

Funny thing is if the capacity is 35k, one of the things JR bitched about was not drawing 3 million, You can't draw 3 million with a 35k capacity.  In fact if you sold out every game, you wouldn't draw what the White Sox drew in 2006 which is what he was primarily bitching about.

Edited February 23 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

49 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

The Bears have always maintained that they want their new stadium to be privately financed -- McCaskey is quoted saying this during a public forum in Arlington Heights a few years ago: https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/09/09/bears-plan-for-5-billion-stadium-campus-doesnt-include-retractable-roof-and-would-need-public-funding-team-says/.

The public money they want is for infrastructure -- similar to how SoFi Stadium was built in LA.

If that's still the case, then a privately funded domed stadium for the Bears (and other events) is a much easier sell than an entirely publicly funded stadium for the second MLB team in town, which has no real name recognition outside of Chicago and won't move the tourism needle at all, unlike Wrigley Field.

True, the Bears only play eight games a year. But there's also the potential for other big events like Super Bowl, Final Four and concerts (where they would successfully compete with Reinsdorf's United Center, especially for bigger acts). Also, a domed stadium could conceivably be used for spillover convention-related events.

In this current financial climate, no new stadiums really make sense for Chicago. But a domed stadium for the Bears and other events makes much more sense than an unnecessary baseball-only facility for a mediocre organization in a sport with an aging fan base.

 

You're talking like...stadium buster acts. The Taylor Swift and Beyonce Tours alone.

But this dude on the bears reddit already did the math, so I'm gonna go with him:

Outside of those events, an area around the Bears stadium is going to be dead if it's in Arlington Heights. No one is going to be a tourist in Arlington Heights. And if it's in Chicago, a football stadium takes up the entire plot.

Also lmao @ no one knows the Sox outside of Chicago. That's such a ridiculous notion that it barely worths refuting, other than the fact that it's the #3 best selling hat in baseball behind the Yankees and Dodgers. Yes, that mostly has to do with its connection to hip-hop fashion, but they have an actual brand.

[Lightly Folded]

10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Funny thing is if the capacity is 35k, one of the things JR bitched about was not drawing 3 million, You can't draw 3 million with a 35k capacity.  In fact if you sold out every game, you wouldn't draw what the White Sox drew in 2006 which is what he was primarily bitching about.

Smaller parks are expected to be way of the future. 

[waltwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said:

Been here for seven decades. The design for this proposed park indicates capacity of 35,000ish or so. They would sell out every game for a few  years to start and build fan support along the way. You want to keep the Sox the 2nd team then keep the at 35th st. There is NO reason why two MLB teams can’t be co-equals in a city like Chicago. The Sox have to come out of their backwater existence in Bridgeport and join the outside world via the 78.

That explains it -- you're old (like me). So you look at the Sox as they were in the Go-Go era. Well, it's not that way anymore. The Sox will never be co-equals to the Cubs -- that ship sailed 30 years ago. Wrigley Field is one of the premier destinations in sports -- it's a fact and we can't change that. And new baseball-only stadiums don't necessarily move the needle anymore. PNC Park in Pittsburgh is lauded as one of the most beautiful facilities in baseball, located right next to the river, with beautiful views of the skyline. And they've drawn worse than the Sox for almost the entire time the Pirates have played there, because the team consistently sucks. 

The Sox can draw well anywhere that they play (the current Sox Park or somewhere new), but the team has to win. It was that way 70 years ago, and it's that way today. 

I honestly don't care where the Sox play -- I'm fine with Armour Square (the actual neighborhood that the Sox play in now). Or I'm fine with the 78. I don't agree with an entirely publicly funded facility -- it's wasteful and counter-productive. And, if the Bears are indeed partially paying for their stadium, than that's makes more financial sense than some bells-and-whistles baseball-only park for a sport with a fan base that continues to get older.

 

[waltwilliams]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

You're talking like...stadium buster acts. The Taylor Swift and Beyonce Tours alone.

But this dude on the bears reddit already did the math, so I'm gonna go with him:

Outside of those events, an area around the Bears stadium is going to be dead if it's in Arlington Heights. No one is going to be a tourist in Arlington Heights. And if it's in Chicago, a football stadium takes up the entire plot.

Also lmao @ no one knows the Sox outside of Chicago. That's such a ridiculous notion that it barely worths refuting, other than the fact that it's the #3 best selling hat in baseball behind the Yankees and Dodgers. Yes, that mostly has to do with its connection to hip-hop fashion, but they have an actual brand.

The fact that 90s rappers wore Sox gear has nothing to do with whether or not tourists will go to see a Sox game. 

[Lightly Folded]

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Funny thing is if the capacity is 35k, one of the things JR bitched about was not drawing 3 million, You can't draw 3 million with a 35k capacity.  In fact if you sold out every game, you wouldn't draw what the White Sox drew in 2006 which is what he was primarily bitching about.

Smaller parks are the wave of the future. TV, Streaming, and to a lesser extent Radio Revenues are where the big money comes from. 

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

The fact that 90s rappers wore Sox gear has nothing to do with whether or not tourists will go to see a Sox game. 

Not what I said, but thanks for playing.

Tourists would go see a game at a more accessible stadium that has a better fan experience which is what they're pitching.

[pcq]

Imagine IL helping Jerry with two parks at the same time.