Dick Allen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 32 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: 4 billion is the full project, including the other buildings. No it’s not. It’s phase one. Ballpark, infrastructure, hotel, and some restaurants and bars. It’s what JR and reliable need to get others on board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 What rent would Jerry pay to use the stadium? Also, who gets the revenue from concerts or other events potentially held at the stadium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 21 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: No it’s not. It’s phase one. Ballpark, infrastructure, hotel, and some restaurants and bars. It’s what JR and reliable need to get others on board. Exactly. It isn't just the ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Holmes, the champion of Bridgeport. Bridgeport doing great, it just has 20% the population density of the Loop. Bridgeport has also done literally nothing to support the sox. I know dick thinks that's 100% Jerry's job but I'd disagree. Jerry Reinsdorf does NOT matter. If you're a white sox fan and care about the organization, this move is great. People fixating on Reinsdorf and his past are talking about irrelevant nonsense. The past happened, it's over with. This is about the future of the team, not Jerry's past shenanigans. This should be the one time every single Sox fan wants Jerry Reinsdord to win. I'm a Sox fan, but I do not want any billionaires getting a dime of public money for stadiums. They can finance them themselves or go pound sand. I'd rather they move than make us pay for it. It's infuriating when companies do it, but its unconscionable when sports owners do it. GRF is still not paid off. No owner should get a dime of public money for a stadium from anyone, anywhere. Pritzker was just talking about eliminating $1B in medical debt for Illinoisians and that is a MUCH better use of that money. Edited February 23 by baseball_gal_aly 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Exactly. It isn't just the ballpark. But it’s not the whole project. It’s Jerry’s buildings. He wants to be Ricketts with the hotel and bars, but Ricketts for some reason had to pay for his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Exactly. It isn't just the ballpark. Lots of teams built ballparks back in the days when the public was supportive. But now, the new era of a non support oriented public would need to support building not just the ballpark around a legacy of failure and bad feelings. For a hated owner. This city will need a new owner with deep pockets, and public admiration willing to meet some of the cost in order to sign off. The stank is too big of an obstacle for Jerry to overcome. Some years ago when the south loop had development momentum he stood a chance to be involved, but missed the window. He's done for this, and we are done with this. I have been a vocal opponent of this owner for 30 years, and it burns more red hot every year that passes. Now it seems like the entire fanbase is on the same page. I wish I knew why he had so much benefit of the doubt, and for so long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: But it’s not the whole project. It’s Jerry’s buildings. He wants to be Ricketts with the hotel and bars, but Ricketts for some reason had to pay for his own. As I’ve stated before, Ricketts didn’t voluntarily pay for his own from the get-go. He lobbied hard for public financing but was ultimately turned down. He was willing to use taxpayer funding if he could get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I know this is going to sound sacrilege, but I'm almost to the point where I'm like "Go Already". The city can sue to keep the history and some other team will use the second slot in Chicago as a bargaining chip. I think the reason I feel this way is because I have had enough of watching non-baseball 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 25 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm a Sox fan, but I do not want any billionaires getting a dime of public money for stadiums. They can finance them themselves or go pound sand. I'd rather they move than make us pay for it. It's infuriating when companies do it, but its unconscionable when sports owners do it. GRF is still not paid off. No owner should get a dime of public money for a stadium from anyone, anywhere. Pritzker was just talking about eliminating $1B in medical debt for Illinoisians and that is a MUCH better use of that money. Oh my, somehow medical debt forgiveness is related to a ballpark. I hope all you loud mouth world savers are protesting at every major development city wide, and looking into the tax breaks and forgiveness/exemptions (which is the exact same thing) deeply. Then if the deal falls through, I'll cry and laugh as some huge tax break goes to some other developers to develop some crap none of you care about. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 17 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm a Sox fan, but I do not want any billionaires getting a dime of public money for stadiums. They can finance them themselves or go pound sand. I'd rather they move than make us pay for it. It's infuriating when companies do it, but its unconscionable when sports owners do it. GRF is still not paid off. No owner should get a dime of public money for a stadium from anyone, anywhere. Pritzker was just talking about eliminating $1B in medical debt for Illinoisians and that is a MUCH better use of that money. What are the terms of this deal exactly? The state isn’t gifting Jerry a stadium, there would be some sort of leasing agreement. How much would the Sox be on the hook for in rent on an annual basis? And who pays for the operating expenses & capital improvements? Unless I missed some major news, we literally know nothing other than the proposed development cost. Maybe avoid the outrage until you see all the actual terms. I’m sure Jerry is looking for a sweetheart deal again, but even if the state ultimately funds this my guess is it will be much more friendly to them vs. what was agreed to with New Comiskey. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Only hesitancy is we Sox fans really don't get nice things often. Hard to imagine. But there seems to be good movement and I don't see any other options out there so I'll be optimistic this gets done. I'm simply amazed at how many Sox fans actually want this team to move to another city than even a single public dime go to what looks like a fantastic new park. This has to be the only fanbase where die hard fans are willing to tell their elected officials to let their team leave. This isn't Cubs fans saying this, it's die hard Sox fans. Are there other fan bases where the diehards are so outraged at the idea of any public funding for a new stadium to the point of hoping their team moves away? Because just about every other team gets a ton of public money for new stadiums or massive renovations. Are Brewers, Diamondbacks, Titans, etc. fans hoping their state/city tells the team to go "pound sand" and move away? What about the Cleveland Guardians and Browns fans? I could list most MLB and NFL teams. We Sox fans must be one of a kind. And to clarify, I don't want the city/state to just had over a $1B check to JR without him spending any of his own money. That's what negotiations are for. The whole issue is very nuanced too with the hotel tax money being used and the huge debt owed on Soldier Field that the city could get some relief from with this deal. Anyone who thinks that, if the Sox moved to Nashville, the hotel tax will be redirected to much-needed social programs is fooling themselves. It'll either just go away or used to go towards Bears stadium needs. Edited February 23 by 77 Hitmen 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: But it’s not the whole project. It’s Jerry’s buildings. He wants to be Ricketts with the hotel and bars, but Ricketts for some reason had to pay for his own. Pay for his own what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Panerista said: I know this is going to sound sacrilege, but I'm almost to the point where I'm like "Go Already". The city can sue to keep the history and some other team will use the second slot in Chicago as a bargaining chip. I think the reason I feel this way is because I have had enough of watching non-baseball Maybe you feel this way because your actually a cub fan? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Oh my, somehow medical debt forgiveness is related to a ballpark. I hope all you loud mouth world savers are protesting at every major development city wide, and looking into the tax breaks and forgiveness/exemptions (which is the exact same thing) deeply. Then if the deal falls through, I'll cry and laugh as some huge tax break goes to some other developers to develop some crap none of you care about. No business should ever get a tax break for anything ever. Tax breaks should go to the people who actually need it, not those who don't. Pay your fucking taxes you greedy pricks. Edited February 23 by baseball_gal_aly 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 minutes ago, Panerista said: I know this is going to sound sacrilege, but I'm almost to the point where I'm like "Go Already". The city can sue to keep the history and some other team will use the second slot in Chicago as a bargaining chip. I think the reason I feel this way is because I have had enough of watching non-baseball That's not going to happen in a million years. The Cleveland lawsuit to keep the Browns history for an expansion team was pretty much the only time this has ever happened. Also, if the Sox move away, there's not going to be any new 2nd team coming. It'll be the Cubs only in Chicago, period. Nobody is moving here to play in Bridgeport. And yes, I totally sympathize for your reason for feeling this way! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just leave Jerry. Go to Tampa and build a dome for gawdsakes. I am so tired of all the hatred this guy brings into my life. Vaya con fritos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: No business should ever get a tax break for anything ever. Tax breaks should go to the people who actually need it, not those who don't. Pay your fucking taxes you greedy pricks. Who are you talking to? You're not changing the world by asking your favorite team to leave over this. We've been bent over by billionaires our entire lives and the one time it'll benefit Sox fans is where they draw the line. You can't make this s%*# up. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
77 Hitmen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 6 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: No business should ever get a tax break for anything ever. Tax breaks should go to the people who actually need it, not those who don't. Pay your fucking taxes you greedy pricks. I agree, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. The Amazons, Foxconns, etc. get huge tax breaks. Billionaire sports owners get hundreds of millions in public funds for new stadiums, some of which only last 20 years. I agree that this sucks, but that's the way things are. As a Sox fan, I don't want my team to be the one "line in the sand" that is drawn against this. That being said, JR has to concede something. If his current ask isn't just an opening bid, but his last and final bid, then he's not going to get this approved. Edited February 24 by 77 Hitmen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Who are you talking to? You're not changing the world by asking your favorite team to leave over this. We've been bent over by billionaires our entire lives and the one time it'll benefit Sox fans is where they draw the line. You can't make this s%*# up. I understand this sentiment, but I drew the line years ago. I don't want the Bears to get any tax breaks or public money either. I'm in my late 30s, the line was drawn for me over a decade ago and every time someone somewhere caves I yell at my tv. The Raiders shouldn't have gotten a dime, and neither should the Marlins or A's or any other team I don't care what sport or what city. Part of owning a sports franchise should be the understanding that if you want a new stadium it's up to you to pay for it. I was pissed when Amazon pulled their shenanigans as well. Edited February 24 by baseball_gal_aly 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 11 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: No business should ever get a tax break for anything ever. Tax breaks should go to the people who actually need it, not those who don't. Pay your fucking taxes you greedy pricks. This is literally the dumbest s%*# I have ever read. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 15 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said: I'm simply amazed at how many Sox fans actually want this team to move to another city than even a single public dime go to what looks like a fantastic new park. This has to be the only fanbase where die hard fans are willing to tell their elected officials to let their team leave. This isn't Cubs fans saying this, it's die hard Sox fans. Are there other fan bases where the diehards are so outraged at the idea of any public funding for a new stadium to the point of hoping their team moves away? Because just about every other team gets a ton of public money for new stadiums or massive renovations. Are Brewers, Diamondbacks, Titans, etc. fans hoping their state/city tells the team to go "pound sand" and move away? What about the Cleveland Guardians and Browns fans? I could list most MLB and NFL teams. We Sox fans must be one of a kind. And to clarify, I don't want the city/state to just had over a $1B check to JR without him spending any of his own money. That's what negotiations are for. The whole issue is very nuanced too with the hotel tax money being used and the huge debt owed on Soldier Field that the city could get some relief from with this deal. Anyone who thinks that, if the Sox moved to Nashville, the hotel tax will be redirected to much-needed social programs is fooling themselves. It'll either just go away or used to go towards Bears stadium needs. It would be a completely different story if the organization had a regular winning product on the field. Guarantee it. The vitriol is coming from a residual feeling of being fucked over from the promises of the rebuild. If this team were actually still in it's contention window, and actually winning, I bet this news would be welcomed with open arms. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: This is literally the dumbest s%*# I have ever read. I don't want to get into an economics argument. I'm going to peace out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I don't want the Sox to leave, but I don't like the idea of being blackmailed. Nothing has happened yet, but we can see how the emotions have been stirred. I think it takes some nerve to ask for a stadium a few months after a 101-loss season. Maybe fans wouldn't think we need a new stadium to "save" the White Sox if the team won something once in a while. Since '08, this team has does nothing but lose. And yet, the same people are making the same decisions. A new stadium won't solve the problems the team has had. We don't need a new stadium. We need new ownership. I have a feeling we will get a new stadium. And any fan who thinks more money will be invested to get better players will happen because of a new stadium is naive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said: I agree, but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. The Amazons, Foxconns, etc. get huge tax breaks. Billionaire sports owners get hundreds of millions in public funds for new stadiums, some of which only last 20 years. I agree that this sucks, but that's the way things are. As a Sox fan, I don't want my team to be the one "line in the sand" that is drawn against this. That being said, JR has to concede something. If his current ask isn't just an opening bid, but his last and final bid, then he's not going to get this approved. If this spot were to be developed, there are significant financial benefits for the city. Bringing this land into the tax base long term, driving more traffic to this part of the city, allowing expansion of the core of the city in this direction, all of these are benefits. Not having to maintain and secure this open land is also a benefit. Having the City contribute some of what it would benefit from this project is not an unreasonable ask. Someone has to pay to renovate that land and hook it to city services. The city paying 1/2 of a $4 billion project though is pretty much insane. Even for Foxconn, they were supposed to build a $10 billion factory, and in exchange got $3 billion in subsidies. It was entirely fraudulent due to negligence by the governor, but the numbers here are astronomical and nonsensical. This makes the Foxconn offer in Wisconsin look responsible. If the government is paying for 50% of the project, then they should just socialize the entire project and pay for it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: It would be a completely different story if the organization had a regular winning product on the field. Guarantee it. The vitriol is coming from a residual feeling of being fucked over from the promises of the rebuild. If this team were actually still in it's contention window, and actually winning, I bet this news would be welcomed with open arms. Absolutely correct, spot on. The fan base that has been dumped on for decades is trying to get some revenge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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