Sox looking at building in South Loop

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I moved back to Chicago ?

But I personally don’t see much of a burden for Chicago & Illinois taxpayers.  I don’t think a few % point of taxes on hotels has much meaning on travel considerations for tourists or conventioners for that matter.  And subsidizing property taxes for major sports organizations that provide the area with jobs and other forms of tax revenue doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me.

Honestly, I don’t think the state funding these stadiums via a hotel tax has any noticeable impact on the quality of any of our lives.  But it would provide us with two much better stadiums / areas to watch and experience Chicago sports in for generations to come.  To me, funding these are a no-brainer if they can agree to terms that are a bit more friendly to Illinois taxpayers than the past ones (for example, no free rent when attendance sucks).  I’m less concerned about the billionaires receiving handouts because frankly that’s the status quo and I’m not drawing the line with my franchise.

Congratulations! Have you moved to the city, or the suburbs? Regardless, I hope you and your family enjoy your time here and are prosperous, perhaps over generations like many of us including my family. There are only two households left in the city (My Aunt and I), with two more in the far NW/N suburbs.

I understand and in some ways sympathize with the pro-stadium(s) support. I also don't want the Sox to move. I'm more absolutist in terms of preserving lakefront space, which will not be undone if it ever happens (Star Wars, Bears), but do sincerely believe we all benefit, even White Sox fans with no tax skin in the game, to make sure this is done right, including financing, infrastructure and the stadium.

So much was poorly thought out / disclosed / honestly conveyed in regards to Comiskey Park II, primarily due to the fact Jerry basically controlled the whole project. This includes major mistakes which the city/state/taxpayers spent hundreds of millions of dollars to rectify, and a decade plus experiencing substandard conditions as fans, primarily in the UD but also just the sightline toward the RT Homes vs. Downtown.

I'm glad there may be at least one grownup in the room which will hold significant aspects of the construction and financing to reasonable review and approval, assuming this ever gets done. While I personally rather have the team stay at 35th and Shields, and thrive under new ownership, I do realize I am in the minority on a White Sox fan board, but believe I'm in the majority in terms of Chicagoans who call this place home. 

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, tray said:

Contrary to the title of the posting, the Sox are not and have not been looking to relocate to the South loop. The plan and promotion of that concept was generated by a developer who owns land and have (unsuccessfully) sought numerous ways and means to develop it for a few decades. The 78 thing is the latest pipe dream of Related development for many reasons including those mentioned by SSHM above. 

IMO, the Bears and the Sox would likely consider moving if and only if they were to relocate on land they own and have control over, including to some extent, development of surrounding land and revenue generated from it. The only way I see the Sox entering into another lease (if that is the way they choose to go) would be with the cooperation of the ISFA, the Governor, Mayor and respective legislatures on all matters. In the political climate we are now in, that seems unlikely. No public funding, especially for unnecessary projects.

Yes. The man who made his fortune first in real estate isn't looking to capitalize on the last great and empty piece of real estate in the downtown area to capture a piece the the latest and greatest trend in baseball revenue of the ballpark village in an effort to maximize cash flow and cram as much value into the franchise before he dies so as to top off his legacy buried in real estate and cash...

Nah that doesn't sound like Jerry at all.  It's not like he just stood up and tried to sell this exact program to the people and state government. Nope, the Sox aren't involved at all.

[77 Hitmen]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I moved back to Chicago ?

But I personally don’t see much of a burden for Chicago & Illinois taxpayers.  I don’t think a few % point of taxes on hotels has much meaning on travel considerations for tourists or conventioners for that matter.  And subsidizing property taxes for major sports organizations that provide the area with jobs and other forms of tax revenue doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me.

Honestly, I don’t think the state funding these stadiums via a hotel tax has any noticeable impact on the quality of any of our lives.  But it would provide us with two much better stadiums / areas to watch and experience Chicago sports in for generations to come.  To me, funding these are a no-brainer if they can agree to terms that are a bit more friendly to Illinois taxpayers than the past ones (for example, no free rent when attendance sucks).  I’m less concerned about the billionaires receiving handouts because frankly that’s the status quo and I’m not drawing the line with my franchise.

This is basically how I feel about it.  The existing 2% hotel tax isn't increasing and isn't going away regardless of what happens to the stadium proposals, so I don't see a negative impact on tourism and convention business.  

Does this mean I want the state to give JR a $1B blank check?  Heck, no!  If the McCaskeys can come up with $2B in private financing for their new stadium, why can't Uncle Jerry come up with at least a huge chunk of the $1B needed for his new stadium with private financing?  Ultimately, I think there's a deal that can be done here for both projects and if so, that would mean two outstanding facilities and improved infrastructure for citizens to enjoy for decades to come and that'll help showcase Chicago as still one of America's premier cities instead of an image of a decaying, has-been city that doesn't think big anymore.  

Edited March 27 by 77 Hitmen

[Sockin]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I moved back to Chicago ?

But I personally don’t see much of a burden for Chicago & Illinois taxpayers.  I don’t think a few % point of taxes on hotels has much meaning on travel considerations for tourists or conventioners for that matter.  And subsidizing property taxes for major sports organizations that provide the area with jobs and other forms of tax revenue doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me.

Honestly, I don’t think the state funding these stadiums via a hotel tax has any noticeable impact on the quality of any of our lives.  But it would provide us with two much better stadiums / areas to watch and experience Chicago sports in for generations to come.  To me, funding these are a no-brainer if they can agree to terms that are a bit more friendly to Illinois taxpayers than the past ones (for example, no free rent when attendance sucks).  I’m less concerned about the billionaires receiving handouts because frankly that’s the status quo and I’m not drawing the line with my franchise.

As someone who works in the convention industry, convention planners absolutely care about the hotel tax rate. Chicago already has among the highest hotel taxes in the country and a 2% increase would put it right at the top. The convention industry is still recovering from the pandemic and has been losing big conventions to other major cities. An increase would effectively kill the industry in Chicago.

[scotty22hotty]

35 minutes ago, Sockin said:

The convention industry is still recovering from the pandemic and has been losing big conventions to other major cities. An increase would effectively kill the industry in Chicago.

the tax rate isn't the reason people don't want to come to Chicago?

[77 Hitmen]

39 minutes ago, Sockin said:

As someone who works in the convention industry, convention planners absolutely care about the hotel tax rate. Chicago already has among the highest hotel taxes in the country and a 2% increase would put it right at the top. The convention industry is still recovering from the pandemic and has been losing big conventions to other major cities. An increase would effectively kill the industry in Chicago.

But, they're not proposing to raise the hotel tax.  The funding would come from the existing 2% hotel tax, not an increase in the tax.

 

[southsider2k5]

46 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

But, they're not proposing to raise the hotel tax.  The funding would come from the existing 2% hotel tax, not an increase in the tax.

 

This.  The other part seems to be existing TIF money and a capture of sales taxes from the area going to the debt service instead of the state.  In theory based on what is public, no NEW taxes would be required, just continuations of ones that already exist.

[tray]

12 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I honestly don’t mean to be a dick, but please take a break from this website and discuss this subject with some real life people.  You are struggling to accept the reality of this situation and now are just continually repeating your own made up narrative to appease your personal desires.  Jerry Reinsdorf 100% wants to relocate to the south loop full stop…that was confirmed when he went to Springfield to make his case and when the team’s PR people started discussing their plans publicly.  I do apologize for the hostility of my past interactions on this subject because I assumed you were just trolling, but at this point it seems like your inability to grasp the situation stems from something much deeper rooted and will require help from non SoxTalk posters to overcome.

"  Jerry Reinsdorf 100% wants to relocate to the south loop full stop…that was confirmed when he went to Springfield to make his case and when the team’s PR people started discussing their plans publicly."

I don't appreciate your disrespect, arrogance and passive aggressiveness. But go ahead if that makes you feel that you are smarter and more experienced in the subject than others, including those you know nothing about.

The White Sox have options moving forward.  Related apparently doesn't.   Related and the prior ownership tried several options to develop that site over the course of decades and all have failed.  Don't blame me for not trolling for Related. The reasons for the failures to develop 78  go well beyond the facts in my posts.  Most involve money and more specifically, the need to use other people's money (i.e., Illinois and Chicago tax payers) .

Pritzker has left the door open but his comments pretty much telegraph that he believes there should be private funding for any new sports stadium.  As an IL tax payer, I concur.

 

[tray]

12 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I honestly don’t mean to be a dick, but please take a break from this website and discuss this subject with some real life people.  You are struggling to accept the reality of this situation and now are just continually repeating your own made up narrative to appease your personal desires.  Jerry Reinsdorf 100% wants to relocate to the south loop full stop…that was confirmed when he went to Springfield to make his case and when the team’s PR people started discussing their plans publicly.  I do apologize for the hostility of my past interactions on this subject because I assumed you were just trolling, but at this point it seems like your inability to grasp the situation stems from something much deeper rooted and will require help from non SoxTalk posters to overcome.

I'll be at the Opener tomorrow. Want to meet up to discuss this further in "real life?"  I'll wear a red White Sox hat and an Eloy jersey and will be hanging out with friends in the Center field concourse.

[Leonard Washington]

9 minutes ago, tray said:

I'll be at the Opener tomorrow. Want to meet up to discuss this further in "real life?"  I'll wear a red White Sox hat and an Eloy jersey and will be hanging out with friends in the Center field concourse.

The statues don’t count. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

I hope the White Sox can secure private funding for the 78 project. 

These are my thoughts on the subject. 

[Chicago White Sox]

56 minutes ago, tray said:

"  Jerry Reinsdorf 100% wants to relocate to the south loop full stop…that was confirmed when he went to Springfield to make his case and when the team’s PR people started discussing their plans publicly."

I don't appreciate your disrespect, arrogance and passive aggressiveness. But go ahead if that makes you feel that you are smarter and more experienced in the subject than others, including those you know nothing about.

The White Sox have options moving forward.  Related apparently doesn't.   Related and the prior ownership tried several options to develop that site over the course of decades and all have failed.  Don't blame me for not trolling for Related. The reasons for the failures to develop 78  go well beyond the facts in my posts.  Most involve money and more specifically, the need to use other people's money (i.e., Illinois and Chicago tax payers) .

Pritzker has left the door open but his comments pretty much telegraph that he believes there should be private funding for any new sports stadium.  As an IL tax payer, I concur.

 

I don’t feel smarter than anyone and I don’t need experience to say what I’m saying.  I just don’t understand how you refuse to acknowledge that Jerry Reinsdorf literally bussed his 90 year old ass to Springfield to campaign for the 78 site.  Like now I think you’re simply trolling again.

That being said, I would have happily bought you a beer and discussed further in person tomorrow, but unfortunately have kids spring break this week and am currently out of state.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, tray said:

I'll be at the Opener tomorrow. Want to meet up to discuss this further in "real life?"  I'll wear a red White Sox hat and an Eloy jersey and will be hanging out with friends in the Center field concourse.

“Dems fightin woids!”

[Lip Man 1]

Two stadium notes to pass along tonight.

Saw on the news where the attempt by the Caps and Wizards to move to Alexandria, Virginia is now dead. The Alexandria city council said negotiations are now at an end. One of the council members put out a statement thanking everyone who put pressure on the local government to say no.

And from Cleveland comes word that the Browns are now saying they need a billion dollars in renovations to Paul Brown Stadium or they need two billion to build a new domed stadium. 

[caulfield12]

8 hours ago, tray said:

I'll be at the Opener tomorrow. Want to meet up to discuss this further in "real life?"  I'll wear a red White Sox hat and an Eloy jersey and will be hanging out with friends in the Center field concourse.

CWS can/could wear a paperbag to be more easily identifiable...if he wasn't out of town already.

[Kyyle23]

Will tray challenge JR to a fight when the shovels go into the ground 

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Will tray challenge JR to a fight when the shovels go into the ground 

If so, I'll be there... watching... from a tailgate.

[77 Hitmen]

6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Two stadium notes to pass along tonight.

Saw on the news where the attempt by the Caps and Wizards to move to Alexandria, Virginia is now dead. The Alexandria city council said negotiations are now at an end. One of the council members put out a statement thanking everyone who put pressure on the local government to say no.

And from Cleveland comes word that the Browns are now saying they need a billion dollars in renovations to Paul Brown Stadium or they need two billion to build a new domed stadium. 

That's not the whole story about the Caps and Wizards, though.  The reason why the Virginia deal is dead is because the Caps and Wizards have come to an agreement with DC to stay at their current arena until 2050.  The city has agreed to pay $515M in upgrades to Capital One Arena to keep those teams in Washington.

https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2024/03/27/capitals-wizards-alexandria-virginia-arena

 

Edited March 28 by 77 Hitmen

[Texsox]

On 3/27/2024 at 4:32 PM, scotty22hotty said:

the tax rate isn't the reason people don't want to come to Chicago?

When you are planning a major convention attracting thousand, or tens of thousands of people, total cost becomes an issue. Hotel tax is arguably not the defining reason, but it is on the list. 

Weather, cost of exhibit space and the labor to set up booths, options for spouses, meeting space, exhibit space, air travel options, convenience to your industry cornerstone companies, etc also come into play. 

Chicago, where you need a union electrician to inspect and plug in anything, (even as simple as an led light) plus high hotel taxes, is at a disadvantage. Location, space, etc puts them back in the game. 

[WhiteSox2023]

On 3/28/2024 at 5:42 AM, Kyyle23 said:

Will tray challenge JR to a fight when the shovels go into the ground 

He was too busy fighting all the Cubs trolls that prevented the Sox from scoring any runs yesterday.

[Falstaff]

These are 3 things that I can say with total confidence about Jerry Reinsdorf:

1- Could provide advice on buying a top-notch cigar.

2- Would be the go to guy for recommendations on a Roth IRA conversion.

3- Sox at 78 will happen

 

 

 

[tray]

On 3/27/2024 at 8:40 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Dems fightin woids!”

 

Those were not fighting words. We are in our 60's and 70's and don't duke it out with youngsters but we always enjoy conversation with fellow Sox fans, especially genuine fans, and any rational people we meet.

We discussed the ridiculous idea propounded by a greedy developer to move Sox park into a congested South Loop Office high rise park with no parking....at tax payers expense. Everyone (including those we met while tailgating or spoke with later outside Turtles, thought that the 78 idea was preposterous. 

Perhaps go to a few games, drive around the neighborhoods North and West of the park and have a drink at one of the bars adjacent to Armor Park. Look at the Chicago skyline from there. The latest 78 concept was a Hail Marty pass by Related to finally obtain public financing by crammimg  a baseball stadium within a silly rendering (which they finally tinted green to patronize South side fans).  It's not gonna happen.

 

 

Edited March 31 by tray

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, tray said:

Those were not fighting words. We are in our 60's and 70's and don't duke it out with youngsters but we always enjoy conversation with fellow Sox fans, especially genuine fans, and any rational people we meet.

We discussed the ridiculous idea propounded by a greedy developer to move Sox park into a congested South Loop Office high rise park with no parking....at tax payers expense. Everyone (including those we met while tailgating or spoke with later outside Turtles, thought that the 78 idea was preposterous. 

Perhaps go to a few games, drive around the neighborhoods North and West of the park and have a drink at one of the bars adjacent to Armor Park. Look at the Chicago skyline from there. The latest 78 concept was a Hail Marty pass by Related to finally obtain public financing by crammimg  a baseball stadium within a silly rendering (which they finally tinted green to patronize South side fans).  It's not gonna happen.

 

 

The attendance today was 17,478.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The attendance today was 17,478.

And every single record low in attendance just proves Jerry right in that casual fans don't go to games for the Sox and he needs revenue from fans who show up no matter what like the Cubs get.

[Lip Man 1]

37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The attendance today was 17,478.

You'd think JR would understand a basic principal in sports, winning solves a lot of problems including attendance but that takes building a real organization and spending the money needed to bring in talent at all levels. That may mean going in the red for several years until that has been established and he is so risk aversive he refuses to even consider this.  (That may be because with all the national and international revenue streams for MLB he doesn't have to do anything to make money)

History has shown when the Sox are winning (and by that I just mean putting a competitive club on the field) they draw well.

They were the first franchise, not the Cubs, in Chicago to draw over two million for a season. When they put together years where they were in the hunt under his ownership 1981-1985, 1990-1994 and 2000-2006 they drew well.